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SS2010 Community Member 150 posts since
Sep 12, 2008
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Jan 30, 2010 1:16 PM

Tough Love vs. Unconditional Love~~Boundaries

Hello~

 

This is something I am trying to figure out.  I have practiced tough love toward my husband when he did not end his relationship with the other woman and commit to our marriage  I did this after I year of "just loving" him as best I could and tired to be a godly wife to him.  I began to see my issues that contributed to our marriage problems and began working on me in hopes he would "come around" and commit to me. Well, he continued his affair while lying to me and telling me there was "nothing going on".  When the evidenced that they were involved was seen by me at least 2 times within that year, I finally asked him if he wanted to have a marriage or be roommates.  He wanted to be my roommate so I said I was not interested in that .  I asked him to move out of our home but stated I still wanted to work on our marriage and go to counseling.  My husband  said he was not interested in this.  I said OK and have left things alone. . I have not begged him nor do I call him unless it is "business"  or kids stuff.  He knows I want to have God lead us out of this place we are in and have a Christ centered marriage. I wrote him an email this month telling him my honest feelings.  I applied "tough Love" after giving "unconditional love" even while he was sinning.  OK I have read Love Need to be Tough by Dr. Dobson after I asked my husband to make a choice.  I had followed the that approach before I read the book.

Other  opinions are if our unfaithful spouse wants to stay we should let them and continue to pray for them and let God work.  Did I do the wrong thing asking him to make a choice? . If there wasn't silence and distance he was picking a fight.  I was dead inside.  I was seeking the Lord for direction and strength and things kept getting worse.  All the tension left when my husband left.  I had peace for myself and my daughters.  Now I struggle with wondering if I made a mistake.  Did I make things worse because he left and then had an excuse to go deeper into sin?  I have told my husband I want to save our marriage and that I still love him..But...  I do not want him home until he repents. I have repented of my sins (still working on some though) He now live with the other woman in her home.

Others also say you should let them come home even if it is because they want to be obedient to God only. Yes I want him to be obedient to God but he also would need to repent Right ? I would never want to let him into my life to hurt us again.  He came home once already early on but without repenting.  It did not work..  I applied tough love while loving my husband unconditionally.. A person still needs boundaries Right?  What are good boundaries to have if your spouse "suddenly" returns.  Do you let him come home right away or do you need to set some boundaries  before they can come home?  I would want boundaries because of my trust issues with him.  Has anyone had these questions?  There are many opinions .  Thank you and God Bless,  Chipfishing

Tags: boundaries, separation, communication_spouse
JayBee45 Community Member 7 posts since
Jan 25, 2010
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1. Feb 1, 2010 5:50 AM in response to: SS2010
Re: Tough Love vs. Unconditional Love~~Boundaries

When I left my home, children and wife 14 years ago, I was convinced my wife was the wrong person for me--that I had found a "soul mate."

 

It wasn't until she became strong and independent that I began second-guessing my feelings. It's funny as my situation is turned around now. She is the one who doesn't know if she wants the marriage to work and I have become a "stander."

 

During the past 3 months (she told me in Oct. that she wanted a separation and would do so "after the holidays"), I have done more than my fair share of begging, pleading, crying, etc. This and other things caused her to lose respect for me. I too have read "Love Must Be Tough," and have found that very hard to do as I have been very depressed, panicky and desperate.

 

It's odd looking back at our separation of 14 years ago, realizing that when she became strong and independent and pulled away, that was a big factor in me changing my mind and heart. Depsite all of the energy I have put into trying to "solve" our marriage dilema, even reading the tough love book, it has finally dawned on me that what she did then worked on me.

 

It's very hard to figure out what to do. I think becoming strong and independent while staying committed to the marriage is probably best. Make the decision that you would regret least. Sometimes it will take time when setting boundries for your spouse to respond. It may not happen right away. But continue to pray that God will change his heart. Continue to pray that God repair your marriage and family and continue to seek His guidance.

 

I will pray for you, your husband and your marriage.

Mary-Anne Community Member 46 posts since
Oct 20, 2009
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2. Feb 1, 2010 5:50 AM in response to: SS2010
Re: Tough Love vs. Unconditional Love~~Boundaries

Hi chipfishing,

 

I too struggled with boundaries and tough love. The way I came to understand boundaries took some time. In terms of my ex, I see setting boundaries as something I do in response to something he did or said. I mean, I couldn’t make him feel, think, consider anything, let alone do anything.

 

So, when my ex would call me at 11pm at night, I would not answer the call. I have a personal rule that I don’t take calls past 9pm from anyone but my family, closest friends or my partner. He was any of these anymore. I  let these late calls go to the answering machine and answered them the next day. I don’t tell him it was too late to call either – comments like that would start arguments. I simply would exercise my boundary as respectful of him as I wanted to be of myself. The shift for me was moving to self respect and not demanding respected from others, but behaving in a way that showed respect for myself.

 

One of the problems I learnt with boundaries was that no-on could tell me where mine should be. I had to learn through pain and suffering where to move them to. And, interestingly, they ended up quite often where people told me they should be. But, I couldn’t start from that point and perhaps that is your struggle too?

 

I learnt, that it is impossible to reconcile while the other women were still in the picture. When my husband asked again to reconcile under these conditions I told him that I still loved him, cared for him and that I’d forgiven him everything, but that I didn’t want to have a relationship with shared intimacies. He understood this. I didn’t tell him to give them up. He asked me under what condition I would consider a relationship with him – I told him that I would consider it when the other women were gone. It was never really a demand.

 

This is perhaps the harshest thing I will say about my ex husband – he has a stable of women, each hoping to be “the one” – it is too painful, too demoralising, too exhausting to be in the stable. He remains angry with me to this day about this, saying that I have rejected him. However, I don’t cry like I used to – curled up in a ball in front of the heater for hours and hours every day.

 

You’re in my prayers

 

Mary-Anne.

johndoo Community Member 49 posts since
Jan 25, 2010
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3. Feb 1, 2010 6:26 AM in response to: SS2010
Re: Tough Love vs. Unconditional Love~~Boundaries

I certainly think that you have a right to insist on his sexual and emotional faithfulness in the marriage.  It is dangerous for you physically to have a spouse who is promiscuous.  There is no way your relationship can go forward without this committment and rebuilding trust.

onemom Community Member 40 posts since
Sep 3, 2009
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4. Feb 2, 2010 7:02 AM in response to: johndoo
Re: Tough Love vs. Unconditional Love~~Boundaries
That is a tough situation.  My husband and I are trying to rebuild trust and it seems real easy for him but we also have anger and emotional abuse issues too.   So I can empathize with you and would like advice on boundaries and rebuilding the trust and how to do it.  It is very hard.  It's is hard after actions being repeated to be able to believe in the other or to have faith when you know we all sin.  I will pray for you to find the answers without a shadow of a doubt.  God can give us the wisdom I think just trying to figure it out is frustrating.  My prayers are with you.  God Bless One mom
margiecs5 Community Member 11 posts since
Feb 1, 2010
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5. Feb 2, 2010 8:20 AM in response to: johndoo
Re: Tough Love vs. Unconditional Love~~Boundaries
I have been married for 28 years now, however, it has been a rollercoaster ride and we have been through hell and back.  I think that sometimes unconditional love works but sometimes tough love works also.  I guess it depends on the man.   In my case (even though is NOT my nature) Tough Love has worked in our marriage.   I have always had to make a Tough Love decision in order for my husband to WAKE up and reflect on what he is doing and how much it was hurting me and affecting me emotionally and mentally.   So I really do not see anything wrong in Tough Love.  The Lord wants us to humble like a dove, BUT smart like a snake.  Sometimes men want the cake and eat it too and this is not right.  We HAVE to set boundaries or else some men will take advantage of us. Take care and God BLess.

 

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margiecs5 Community Member 11 posts since
Feb 1, 2010
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6. Feb 2, 2010 8:25 AM in response to: JayBee45
Re: Tough Love vs. Unconditional Love~~Boundaries
Those are the consequences of mistakes and wrong choices we make in life.   Sometimes men "always" think that the grass is greener on the other side to find out it was NOT.   I have seen it over and over and over how men keep looking on the other side and come to realize too late that it is not.  Its so sad, especially if we believe in God.   We have the "tools" to know what we should do when our marriage is in trouble.  We have to start seeking the face of the Lord and draw near to Him for the Lord to guide us and give us wisdom from above to handle the situation.   Men just dont understand how being unfaithful to their wives how much it affects them emotionally and mentally.  It is devastaging and it takes a long time for the heart to heal.   If you could find time to read the book  "The Power of a Praying Husband" by Stormie Omartian you will be how much "insight" will give a man about a woman's feeling.  This book was sooo helpful in our marriage.  I even read it to understand the mind of the man and give me an insight.    I also read "The Power of a Praying Woman"  they are VERY good resource books.  Take care and God Bless     
margiecs5 Community Member 11 posts since
Feb 1, 2010
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7. Feb 2, 2010 8:36 AM in response to: Mary-Anne
Re: Tough Love vs. Unconditional Love~~Boundaries

Hi Maryanne

 

I feel your pain.  Just keep praying for your ex.  That is all you can do.  But I feel you made the right choice.  We have to set boundaries or some men will take advantage of us.  Thats when Tough Love comes in.   If he "is not" willing to change, there is nothing you can do.   If he is willing to change there is always hope to work on that.   I read the book  "The Power of a Praying Woman" by Stormie Omartian.  That book helped me sooo much to uplift me and inspire me.  If you have a chance please read it.   Take care and God Bless   

margiecs5 Community Member 11 posts since
Feb 1, 2010
Currently Being Moderated
8. Feb 2, 2010 6:40 PM in response to: onemom
Re: Tough Love vs. Unconditional Love~~Boundaries
It is VERY hard when you keep forgiving and forgiving and forgiving and the man keeps doing the same thing over and over.  Sometimes times what it is , is that the man is taking the woman for granted because he knows the woman has a soft heart so he takes advantage of that so that is where either Tough Love action comes in or SET hard boundaries.  In other words give the man an ultamaton.  Another suggestion is to SEEK help with a  "christian" counselor that BOTH of you can attend.  That help me in my marriage some.   Have you read the book,  "The Power of a Praying Woman" by Stormie Omartian????   This book is awesome.   It really helped me and uplift me.  A man HAS TO do his part too.   Do you attend a certain church regularly???   Do you feel you can trust the pastor's wife?    Speak to her and get her insight in your situation.  Or like I said you dont feel comfortable then call Focus on the Family, they are pretty good on helping you find support groups or referring you to a good christian counselor.    Marriage is work and if you feel it is worth it to save your marriage and you still love your husband then we as woman have to do our homework and get help.   We can not do it by ourselves.  That is why the bible says that we need to help ONE ANOTHER and encourage ONE ANOTHER.   I guess the Lord knew we could not do it by ourselves.   Pray about your situation.  Ask the Lord for wisdom from above.   I listened to christian music alot to help me build my spirit.  Find books to read to help you.   Take care and God Bless
onemom Community Member 40 posts since
Sep 3, 2009
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9. Feb 3, 2010 6:08 AM in response to: margiecs5
Re: Tough Love vs. Unconditional Love~~Boundaries
I agree that the power of prayer of husband wife etc.  are good I have the wife one but will get the husband one too it will probably help. But we also have children that verbal emotional abuse is also afflicted upon and think if it were just me the love could be rebuilt but still waiting to see if history will repeat itself or if I'm just being selfish.  I feel like God has me in between the kids and dad.  If it was just me I would think I was being selfish.  I'm praying hard to make sure I'm not being judgmental and putting God in a box.  But I agree with margiecs5 in the fact that it feels like i'm too soft hearted and will be taken advantage of again and am weak in not protecting my kids from the abuse.  Not that I'm perfect in not means.  I make mistakes but feel God has put me hear as the one to be there spiritual leader.  Am thinking also about calling focus on the family counselor too.  God Bless am praying for all of us here.  Thanks for your prayers!
margiecs5 Community Member 11 posts since
Feb 1, 2010
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10. Feb 4, 2010 7:00 AM in response to: onemom
Re: Tough Love vs. Unconditional Love~~Boundaries

Hi onemom

 

Yes you have to protect your kids.  If not in the long run all the fighting and verbal abuse is going to affect your children emotionally and mentally and it will affect their future.  I am talking from experience.  I have 3 girls they are married now, but our fights affected them.  They expressed this to me in counseling.  Sometimes if it has to take a "separation" until things get better than that what has to be done.   However, sometimes I know its hard if you can not afford the rent by yourself.   So it makes it harder to set free.   That is why if you attend a church maybe someone can help you there.  When I separated I went to a friends house.   Its so many things that one has to keep searching and searching.  It is very hard.   Take care and God Bless.

JayBee45 Community Member 7 posts since
Jan 25, 2010
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12. Feb 4, 2010 7:07 PM in response to: SS2010
Re: Tough Love vs. Unconditional Love~~Boundaries

Chip~~ I can't begin to tell you how happy I am to hear how much progress you have made. I hope to be where you are someday, even though we are in very different situations.

 

I also want to tell you how much one of your last postings meant to me today. I've been feeling very depressed, lonely, guilty and angry. I had another night of pursuing my wife when she wanted nothing to do with me (at least we're both still under the same roof). For some time now, my days at work have been extremely difficult. It's been hard for me to concentrate on anything but trying to "fix" this mess my marriage is in.

 

I pray and pray for the strength to turn my life and my troubles over to God. My natural tendency is to try to solve problems and I've stuffed my brain non-stop with information about God's teachings, unconditional love, what makes a good and bad marriage, and how to be a better person and rid my life of sin. In my situation, I thought my marriage was safe - unhappy perhaps, troubled maybe, but secure. I understand now that the issues my wife cites for her reasons for possibly wanting to end our relationship are real and significant. I only wish she would have taken some action before she got to the point where she felt like ending our marriage. She thought I wouldn't have listened, but still never made a real effort to let me know how she was feeling.

 

So now I'm in a situation where we are in relationship purgatory--closer to hell than heaven. Although she finally agreed to participate in the Retrouvaille program, she still doesn't "feel" married, committed, forgiving, etc. Each day I am pained by the fact that she doesn't wear her wedding rings, doesn't make any attempt to contact me during the day, and still brings up hurtful things even during our dialogue time. In fact, most days, if it weren't for dialogue, we would hardly even talk. As I'm sure you and many others can understand, the pain of living with her is almost unbearable at times. We have 5 children, so it's not like one of us is read to rush out the door... Even the thought of living without my children in my life on a daily basis makes my head spin and depression kick in.

 

What I have been struggling with lately is ...

1. Guilt of withdrawing from my wife because the pain is so great. She makes "small talk" seemingly when she "has" to because we still live together. I know this is wrong, which just adds to the pain and guilt.

2. She is seeking God's guidance on making a decision as to whether we should separate. I believe she is influenced negatively by her friends, family and non-religious counselor (I have no idea if the counseler, herself, is Christian, but my wife is not seeking her advice on how to save the marriage, but how to treat herself). I just don't understand how God could be telling her anything but to re-commit to her marriage. Despite the incredible harships we have been through, I have not touched another woman since we reconcilled 14 years ago, and she is in no physical danger. She has never argued that our marriage is not one where our children would be better off with us divorcing. All we hear at church are things like "don't quit and split and other things about committing yourself to marriage.

3. Impatience. How long am I supposed to endure this pain while she goes through the process of making her decision. I know my situation may sound a lot better than most people's here, but I can't imagine a whole lot more pain. I see myself through her eyes and can barely stand myself. I hate being so impatient but the pain and loneliness is so difficult to shake most of the time.

4. Separation? Is the devil putting these thoughts in my mind, or am I in a situation where a separation may be a good thing? I don't even think of it as a step toward divorce, but a step toward healing and perhaps a bit of "tough love." As the book says, am I at a point where I should create a crisis so she has to buck up and make a decision. Feeling so guilty and bad about myself all the time is wearing me down. I can barely imagine being able to leave the kids as my choice, but might that give us both time to heal and not dig deeper holes in our relationship? Or do I ride out the pain, stay here for the children and live this hell of marriage purgatory while she seemingly takes her time making her decision? Ugh ...

 

I pray for all who come here to find some peace. Peace comes to me rarely, but I turn to God and try my best to live the way he wants me to. Chip-- praise God for your development and accomplishments--I pray the God changes your husband's heart and he realizes his sins and repents.

 

God bless you all.

margiecs5 Community Member 11 posts since
Feb 1, 2010
Currently Being Moderated
13. Feb 6, 2010 8:40 AM in response to: JayBee45
Re: Tough Love vs. Unconditional Love~~Boundaries

Jaybee45  and  Chipfishing Jay  _ I can relate how you feel.  I have been there done that.  Its only normal to feel the way you feel when you LOVE someone.  As a woman, your wife still being at home tells me some things,  1.  She still is there because she has no where to go and can not afford an apartment by herself,  2.  She still has love for you and somewhere in the back of her mind has hope that the marriage can be fixed.  All I know is that we CAN NOT do it alone.  Trust me.  I have tried and it did not work.  We need to seek  help and counseling from spiritual men of God.    You as the Leader of the home need to keep searching for that help.  You can call  Focus on the Family and talk to a Christian Counselor to see what they advice.  They also can refer you to a “local” counselor in your area where you can keep getting counsel as to what steps can you keep taking.   

 

Sometimes we have to do “the possible” and God will take care of “the impossible”.    Its like if you need a job and you stay home praying and praying and praying to God to help you get a job, yet you don’t go out there and look for a job, how can the Lord open the door for the job if you are at home??  If a man does not take care of his wife’s emotional needs it makes a woman feel empty and alone.  Its sad that she has waited this long to take action.  She should have expressed her feelings to you over and over until maybe you could have gotten it.    At least you have admitted that her reasons are real and significant.  Which is a good start.  Some men don’t even want to admit they did anything wrong.    Have you seen the movie  “Fire Proof”  ??  Sometimes resources like this one gives you ideas to try to win her heart again.  It’s a matter of winning her heart again.    OMG and if she has “agreed” to participate in the Retrouvaille program that is a very good sign.  Trust me Im a woman.    Give it time.  Take one step at a time.  Let her get there to Retrouville.  Maybe things might change there. 

 

But I would advice you to start praying now for the Lord to touch her heart and for the Lord to intervene.  Even fast if you have to.  Fasting is “very” powerful.  She is very hurt right now and that is how we act when we are hurt.  But if he has agreed to go to the program this is very good.  Give her the space she needs until she gets there.  At least she is still home even if at times you don’t talk.  This is very good.   “Someone” has to take the “first” step to get this marriage healed.  You are the head of the househould.  Why should “you” withdraw if you say that she has “valid” reasons for feeling the way she feels? ?    Be her friend and emotional support “without” any sexual actions.  At this time that is the last thing on her mind.  I guess she is trying to look for emotional healing and she needs your help to find it.  With that comes saving the marriage.    I truly believe that if “LOVE” in still in “both” of your hearts this marriage can be saved.  Trust me I have been there done that and we have been married for 28 years. 

 

You are 100% right in that the Lord would “definitely” want a marriage to stay together not divorce.  Try not to  be impatient if you still have not gone to the Retrovaille program.  Lets see what happens.  She has to start building the trust in you little by little.  It takes time.  And if you feel guilty of the things you have done, then give her the time she needs to heal.  Try to be consistent in treating her very nice and loving her and helping her and maybe buying her flowers.  The Fire Proof movie sure gives you plenty of ideas.  Even a candle light dinner.  Now I don’t know if you have a friend that can help you to watch the kids.  Impatience is going to make the situation worst.  Sometimes we have to Let Go and Let God.  I have experienced that when I do that, that is when things start happening.  The bible says that we should not be anxious of nothing.  That the Lord has it all under control. 

 

As far is separation is concerned.  I have heard that “sometimes” that does help.  But I feel that you should try to find out what does she really would like to see happen.  Then you both come to an agreement which way to go to make the marriage work.  Have you read the book,  “The Power of a Praying Husband”??  that is another great resource.  Little things like this will give you insight as the man of the household and “help” you trust in the Lord more and make you strong while the healing process is happening.  The bible says the Faith comes by the hearing of the word.  So the more you “hear” from the Lord the more your faith will become stronger.  To me the Retroville program is a big step towards fixing your marriage.

 

Chipfishing  -  I totally agree with you.  What you did is the right Tough Love action that sometimes we as woman have to make for the men to wake up and smell the coffee.  I have been there done that and has worked for me many times.  I took the time alone to really get closer to God and it does make you much stronger.  I can tell the Lord is working with you.  He did the same to me.  I started reading the book,  “The Power of a Praying Woman” by Stormie Omartian and this book helped me a lot too.  The bible says that “every…house divided against itself will not stand” (Matthew 12:25).  You cant have peace if you are living in a discord with anyone in your home.  If your husband decides that he does want to change and come back home,  I “highly” recommend marriage counseling.  That was one of my boundaries when my husband wanted to come back home and I made sure he kept his word.  We BOTH went every week.    I did the same thing, I made a decision to move forward without him and started working on myself to become spiritually strong and left him in God’s hands.    I felt the same thing you did the same kind of break through and had “total” peace inside of me and I Let Go and Let God handle the rest.  You are on the right path in having confidence that you have confidence that God will work on him as he is working in you.  We cannot put our life on hold while waiting.    We do need to move on and be strong and dependent in the Lord.   

 

All take care and God Bless.

 

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