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Ladies,
I, too am in the holding pattern with the rest of you. It is uncanny how all these trapped in P, M, and/or A seem to have these profound memory losses. I casually asked my H if he had taken his affair partner to our favorite restaurant when we were dating since it was near the place they met. You would have thought he had just entered into Early Onset Alzheimers. First there was defensiveness, why would I want to know that? Maybe b/c you just brought takeout home from there and I certainly can't eat it if I know that was a common "date" place for the two of you? Then came the sudden memory loss when asked any question. Finally, the why do we have to start talking about this stuff so late. Don't I know how he needs his rest? Then 2 hours later he drops another bomb. ONly after I have asked him for the 34th time in 4 days if there is something he needs to share but is afraid to b/c it might cause more pain. Well, yes there is but he isn't prepared at this time. He needs to process it all some more and he will come to me then. Of course my gut feels like it has been stabbed all over again. How does he expect me to get up and go to bed after that?
Now, no mention of it except to send me a Bible verse about casting my cares on Jesus and being not anxious. I wanted to laugh as bile rose in my throat. Not knowing, of course I am thinking the worst thoughts imaginable. HOw much worse can it be that he has to take his time to process it? A 7 year affair and daily M is not enough? What now, God? I am in the midst of the unbelievable memory lapses and the need to think more about it to make sure he has total clarity. What in the world does he think that is doing to my mind? Is he trying to drive me over the edge? Now tonight, he has made a fabulous family dinner and is hurt that I have no wish to eat. I told him, it would never make it to my stomach. Why, he asked as if last nights conversation never occurred. Monster, man, best friend? Who is this person? I keep clinging to a scripture God gave me in Isaiah 43> Forget the past. Can't you see I am doing a new thing? I will make a stream through the desert.
I need that stream now. I need to see the new thing. Everytime I catch a glimpse of it, we are set back. Now my parents (who absolutely do not know) are visiting on Friday and I have to wait around for the next implosion. I am sure he will not feel it is time to share until they are goine.
Has anyone else been able to be honest with their family without a more serious wound. If we are going to make it, I am not sure it is good for our families to know what we are going through. His parents are dead and mine have adopted him over the last 10 years. Sometimes I felt they loved him more than me. (no jealousy, though). Now I wonder if it would irrevocably damage that relationship or if it even matters.
bleedingout
Dear bleedingout~
It's Friday evening and I am thinking of you. I pray that you will be able to have a nice visit with your family, and that the fear of his next revelation is not with you right now. I pray that you will feel that refreshing stream of love with your family.
None of our family know our situation, either. It's a torment to try to process the secret alone, but I, too, am afraid our family would be ruined by this.
Maybe by your continued asking if he has something else to tell you, he is thinking you already know something? I get so sick and tired of the defensiveness and suspicious questions from him. This is what keeps me thinking he's hiding more. He has no right to keep expecting me to buy his "I don't remember" act. There's nothing to "think about"! There's no debating on what I should be told or not told! The only thing you're "processing" is how to lie or how to minimize your sins!
I am praying that this will be the end of all he has left to reveal to you, bleedingout. I am sad with you as I read your last post. May God wash you with His peace and the "strength to help in time of need" that He promises!
Men and our eye the curse we cant seem to control.like everyman i look when i should not
at even the passing lure of the enemy, just want you to know im praying for you,and i pray he is in Gods word.
my pastor said to me that the Bible is the Ajax of the mind,if you are constantly washing your mind with it,you wont have time for those things
that cause us to think wrongly,hes right,so im praying your husbands in the bible and prayer.Those thoughts will always want to be there,but he will have the armor
of God to resist. May Gods peace and grace be upon you and yours lady.
One day,
Well the secrets are out. His affair partner had actually traveled with him on another trip that he had "forgotten" to mention. Oh yeah, and he had a IM Sex Dialogue partner that spilled into meeting for OS and then in motel rooms. I can't believe the cheap man I married sprung for hotel rooms for his co-workers. Apparently, there is no end to the pain I must suffer. I knew this woman. She worked with him but was a client of mine. She is only 4 years younger than my own mother and I had many converstations with her about life while she was hooking up with my husband and sleeping with him. How incredibly depraved they are and how stupid I must be.
What is the line that I can just walk away. Why is God holding me here? I want to confront her face to face and he says he will support me but I doubt that will happen.
I want to go tonight but he would rather I talk to her when her family is not around. At work.
Pray for me.
Yesterday, when he told me I had compassion. Now I just have rage and woundedness. I feel like I am as dangerous as a wounded animal.
bleedingout
I hardly know what to type.![]()
If this were me, I would want to confront that woman with him on neutral ground, not on his. I don't remember you mentioning meeting up with the affair woman? Does she know that you know, or did your H just tell you he stopped seeing her? I don't know what the experts say about this, I'm just typing my point of view.
I hate not knowing if you live next door to me...but as strange as it sounds...just go down to your basement and let it OUT. Scream, cry, beat a pillow. I know..to some extent..your wounds and your intense rage. I know the 'dangerous' feeling, too. Let me hug you now and be the voice that whispers to hold on to yourself, YOU are better than this, YOU are better than that...better than ANY of this. God is bigger, and His love for YOU is much more intense than the pain you are in.
I know how you feel about holding the secret, but this is all too much for one person to bear. Please consider talking to your family. I have kept mine inside, and nearly gone crazy being alone with as "little" pain as I have. I do not know what to tell you about why God is holding you there, but maybe you needed the peace of having all secrets out and the peace of knowing you didn't leave without trying everything. If you feel like you should stay longer, then what about the "Love Must Be Tough" approach?
Oh, Jesus, please step in and take control for Your daughter. There doesn't seem to be much more that she can suffer. She loves You and seeks Your will and Your hand. You said where 2 or more are gathered in Your name...so I stand here with my sister, holding her up to You. I hardly know what to pray to You, either. Look what they've done to her. Only You can put her back together. Please speak clearly to her. Make Your way PLAIN. Do not allow satan or his demons hold one more thing over her head, or gloat over the suffering that was put in her life. Your strength is made perfect in our weakness. We barely stand here with not much left to give You but our weakness. Please, God, rise up and be the strength for Your daughter. Holy Spirit, please step into our prayers when we don't know more to say. Our hearts are full and overflowing with grief, but our words feel hollow and our voices sometimes empty. Jesus, You are the One she needs.
Please know that you are not alone. I think of you often and pray for you, too.
One day,
I thank you for your prayers. I can hardly believe that only a few days have passed since I posted that mesage. On Monday, I drove to her workplace alone. She wasn't there so I went to her house. (Her being the second affair woman. I have known her for 7 years, she was my client for two of them). She was home and knew instantly why I was there. She came just outside her door and I calmly told her I knew and thought we should talk it out. She began to throw him under the bus. All I could think as I stood there is that this is pathetic. This is the person that you risked our lives for? She is old, rough, and doesn't even care enough about you or her own family. Here she stands throwing you completely into the fire. She let me know that he had had numerous women but could not give me any names. He hounded her for sex until she was just worn down. Then when I told her I knew that they had been together on two occasions, she told me NO she had never "really" been with him. It was just cybersex. So I told her the names of the hotels and she began to ask me why I was hurting her? How could I hurt her or her family in this way? What Kind of friend was I? I continued to speak calmly and kindly, telling her that I wanted her to be treated with the respect I would have wanted her to show me. I was only interested in allowing her that courtesy and that she needed to tell her husband before I did. She sputtered on about how unfair I was but I just wished her well and left.
On the way home, I felt great. For the first time I realized that this isn't about me and my shortcomings, unattractiveness, and worthlessness. Obviously, he really is SICK!. I felt freer than I have felt in 2 1/2 months. I found myself freely praising God and feeling the lifting of a huge burden.
Well, that ended when I walked into the door. Her husband had called our house while I was gone and only my daughter was home. I called him back and he had a lot of questions and told me he had already thrown her out. I felt totally devastated. I did not want their pain on my conscience and it was too late. I tried to talk to him but he wanted no part of it, just to thank me for letting him know what type of woman he was married to.
!5 minutes later his 35 year old daughter called to ask me why I ruined their lives? Did I have children? How could she explain to her children what was going on with Nana and Papa? Why did I have to expose that secret? Why did so many lives have to be ruined? As she asked these questions and accused me of causing so much damage, I realized it was true. My selfish need for her to suffer had inflicted untold damage onto everyone else in her family. I realized for the first time that I may have endangered my own family, our financial future should her husband go after my husbands career, and all of our safety.
Not only that, but now I have to live with the repercussions of what I have done. Her husban called back the next day to apologize for his daughter and to ask a few more questions. Then he told me he had already spoke with an attorney to start divorce proceedings and that he had run a search on my husband and he had a P O Box in a local community. I found myself trying to excuse her behavior saying maybe it was a result of a mental break, and that it was a last year and that they have a history of 38 years together. Please do not throw it away based on my stupid revelation but he said he was thankful. He had been suspicious in the past and now he knew the truth and there was no way he could ever reconcile with her. He is totally enraged that she took someone to be 15 years his junior and that she would cheat on him after all these years. He will have no further contact with her except through the attorney. He had lots of questions about my husbands work situation and I found myself sick that I had started this whole ball rolling.
Now I actually know exactly how our husbands feel when they are sorry for something that they shouldn't have done that causes us such pain but they can't undo it. I have so much more compassion for my husband and so much grief over my own selfishness. Oh, had I only looked at her and walked away.
As for approaching the girl of 7 years, no I haven't and I won't. I will totally let God deal with it as I should have this.
Father,
Give us your wisdom to know what to do in the horrible circumstances we find ourselves in. Forgive me when I stray from your will. I pray peace on this other family. I pray for a supernatural miracle to occur that would allow the softening of hearts, the forgiveness,and reconciliation. I ask for fogiveness for my own sin and my willingness to try to extract my own justice. It was a selfish act and I know I am not worthy of your mercy. let me never again seek my own justice but rely on you to always fight the battles for me. bless this family and grant them solace.
bless one day and her putting up with me and encouraging me when I am at my lowest. Let us encourage one another.
Lord, I submit my will to yours and ask that you will give me wisdom and compassion.
bleedingout
Oh.....dear.....![]()
Underneath all that has happened, one big thing that jumped out from your post was her mention of other women and the p.o. box her H mentioned. Even if this woman were lying, the p o box throws up a gigantic red flag to me.
I feel your pain and remorse in what has now happened, and I understand your desire to step back and let the Lord take care of the rest. But....wasn't this a consequence your H chose to risk for himself, you and your family every time he chose to be with them? I don't mean to downplay your response to this at all; please, please know that. These women chose the same things for themselves and their families. But, if my H were behaving sexually like this.....as horrible as it is to know, I would want to know. You know how we can't stand the lies and wondering...this other husband, while you hurt to see his pain, has been suspicious and not known. She chose to put this pain in their lives. He may have been begging her for answers for quite some time and getting many lies. Your H may not be the only one she was cheating with, either. You said you spoke to her calmly and respectfully. That took a lot of control, I think. And for her to ask what kind of friend you were?? .
I don't think you honestly wanted her family to suffer, but you needed *her* to know that *her* secret with your husband had no more power in your life. She faked a friendship and relationship with you while having sex with your husband. She is as responsible as your H is, and her reaction reminds me of my teenager blaming everyone else for consequences of his actions. She hurt a real person.
The daughter is hurting, yes. But her mother's infidelity is not your fault. It is her mother who owes her grandchildren an explanation of what has happened to Nana and Papa. It is so much easier to lash out, desperate for someone to blame...and no one wants to put the blame on their mother first. She needs time. She is mature enough in age, that given time, she will realize you did not cause this.
I do hope that you will not suffer financially from this, too!
I know it can't be undone. I'm so sorry. I'm sure I would have responded the same way. I feel so inadequate, but I feel like you are taking more responsibility for this than is right...you did not start this ball rolling.
And at the same time, I cry with you that it has come to this, friend.
Oh Jesus,
Forgive us, guard us, guide us.
Bleedingout,
I think it is worth noting that it was the woman and not you who told her husband about the affair. While you may have been the trigger for that conversation, it may have been a conversation that needed to happen. Who's to say that this outcome wasn't part of God's plan for that marriage? I know I've prayed for truth, but it's probably unrealistic for it to come in the form of a seemingly supernatural experience, but rather through everyday details or interactions with people. God works through us, need I say it, in mysterious ways. And yes, I imagine there's incredible grief in that family right now, but I think the one thing we're all learning is that pain and grief are catalysts for growth. I think the empathy you are experiencing is also a gift.
One day,
Thank you for your words of encouragement. I found myself running to the computer b/c right now I want to curl up in a ball and die. He is traveling tonight and when he isn't here at night my mind dwells constantly on this betrayal.
I find myself thinking of him and the other women. Him being with them sexually, putting his mouth on them and more. It makes me feel like nothing will ever be the same again. I think about the 4-5 hours spent in the motel room, the week stay at two different resorts with her, all of it. I asked him tonight on the phone if he left his phone in the car during these trysts or if he just noticed me calling, and reminded himself to call wifey later. I wonder if they had a good laugh at that. ?Why would that phone call not make you STOP? Why would you not feel sick at what you are doing? How could you throw me away? All he can answer is that it was an addiction and he didn't really think about us. I am sick to death over it.
We are embarking on a 90 days abstinence and I wonder if I will ever want to come back. His SA counselor says it is important for men that have any addiction: P, M or affairs. Supposedly the brain becomes sick and needs to be rewired, healed, and the chemical balance changed. I find all this talk about addiction makes me feel that it belittles the betrayal. I have head knowledge that is at war with the heart's feelings. When I think about his actions with these two women, I want to vomit and have no sexual intimacy with him ever again. I wonder how he would feel if the shoe was on the other foot.
He talks about this healing time and how one day we can re-commit to each other and exchange vows again. I don't know that I will ever want to do that. I feel so violated and degraded. Nothing was sacred! Absolutely nothing in those vows uttered 16 years ago was kept. How can I want to do that again? How do I get past these images. I am trying to bring every thought captive, but they rage on at night, especially when he isn't here.
bleedingout
Oneday and Bleedingout,
I am so sorry to read what has transpired. I feel sick for you, Bleedingout. Oneday, last week I read your post and asked my mom to add you to her prayer list. She did, and she feels the pain you are going through. Know that you have an annonymous prayer warrior on your side now. As for me, I don't have much to report - just an emotional roller coaster ride. One day, I think I'm making enormous progress, and the next, I'm completely losing it. Tonight, I just began to cry and cry. I couldn't stop. I realized that I couldn't feed my family and tend to my 2-year-old's constant needs (demands?). I just couldn't face life tonight. So I asked my H to watch our daughter, and I had a night out all by myself. I went out for dinner, got ice cream, and went to a movie, all by myself. In the past, I would have felt like a loser, going to town with no friends, but tonight, it felt so good to just be alone. I feel like life would be demanding enough being a pregnant, working, mom of a toddler, but now this. I don't know how to juggle it all. I had been doing "so well" but I guess I hit a wall. Actually, it was kind of a relief. Usually, I am so engrossed in trying to be strong for everyone else, that I ignore my own needs. Sometimes I wonder if I even care what has happened in my life, since I'm usually un-emotional about it. So, tonight was good, to let out, to realize that yes, I can still feel. I can still cry. I don't know what to say to the two of you....just that I am thinking of you and praying for you. We are all so powerless...but not helpless.
Love to you,
Hurting
Ladies,
I know that life isn't fair, but that doesn't mean I don't want it to be. The most vicious thing about infidelity is feeling like the one who is betrayed is in a no-win situation. ( I eagerly await the day when it feels like a win-win, but it feels so very far off.) You can choose to stay in the relationship despite the fact that it tears you to shreads emotionally. Or you can end the relationship - which is the very thing that you are devastated by in the first place. I read the posts of women (and men) who have been there/done that, and while they say that their marriage is stronger for it, they also say that you don't forget... that you never quite recover the trust that you lost. Going through this, you truly feel like you really 'don't know what is real anymore'. I feel like I'm mourning is the loss of innocence, the loss of the ability to truly trust another person. And that makes me angry. I feel like screaming that this is not what I signed up for. I understand the necessity of placing that trust in God instead. That makes a difference, but on a practical day-to-day basis, I struggle with being in a relationship with someone that I don't trust. I guess what I want to know is, can you really develop intimacy in a relationship with someone that you don't trust? Do you assume the worst and hope for the best? Do you assume the best and know on some level that it's not real, and on some level wait for the other shoe to drop? My husband stole the Love Dare book that we bought, and he seems to be doing it, but sometimes it justs feels manipulative. Like he wants me to believe he's this upstading Chrsitian guy so I don't suspect that something else is going on. Is that crazy? I know that we're all unfaithful in some way in God's eyes. From a selfish perspective though, some unfaithfulness feels more devastating than others.
I wish you find some peace, bleedingout. I don't imagine that hearing your husband 'didn't really think about us' was much of a consolation. My husband 'thought about us' after the fact and realized it was a mistake. I want to shake him and ask him why he couldn't think about us before he did something, before the permanent breach of trust. I keep telling myself that it wasn't about me, but it doesn't make it easier. I do feel that things happen for a reason, and I pray for a transformation in the hearts of people everywhere, because without that, what's the point of suffering?
Dear, dear Bleedingout~
<hug>
My heart bleeds with yours when I read what you typed, "...all he can answer is that it was an addiction and he really didn't think about us". For the life of me, I can NOT understand this at ALL. This is such a flippant--yet true to our H's--and flimsy explanation for living a double, sick life. I have asked my H how was he NOT thinking of us when he was going to such great pains to view his porn and m in secrecy? I mean, if you thought I wouldn't have cared, why pretend you're Mr. Totally Devoted to my Wife for the last nearly 20 years? And then he tells me he IS totally devoted to me and always has been. Is he trying to make me crazy? Because I'll tell you I'm nearly there!
And then I'm supposed to be happy with the fact he hasn't m'd for the past 11 months. I am happy. But it doesn't kill the pain of what he's done for the last 20 years. And I still just have to take his word for it.
I found a book the other day that looks like a partial answer to our situation. I was THRILLED that he took the time to peruse the book and decide to buy it! Then, when we got home, I wondered if he just bought it so I wouldn't cry if he began his speech about how this book doesn't apply to him, either. But he told me that he thought it looked helpful, and that's why he wanted it. It's called "Keeping Secrets", by John Howard Prin. It's all about the double-life subject, breaking free from hidden habits and addictions, that we wives are reeling with knowing. I think it will be helpful to me, too.
And exchanging vows again...wow...I know what you mean. I have asked myself how this marriage was ever a marriage when only one of us EVER meant the vows we said. There never was a "contract". I have felt like he was just up there saying whatever he had to say to be able to get a physical body of a wife. And yet he says no. I am nervous about an anniversary celebration. "Here's to another 17 years...only this time I really mean it (only because you caught me)! ??????
My mind is so tortured by his porn and m, I can only imagine the horror of picturing my H with real women. And yet, "it wasn't about us". No kidding.
I am praying for you!
Message was edited by: oneday...woops, I needed to add the author's name and correct the title of the book. It's okay now!
Dear FHL~
Yes! It is truly like grieving a death, because reality died. My husband tells me that everything in our life we experienced together is so real, and it was all true. But...his p & m, hiding this sin...that was true, too. So which one wasn't my real husband?
"As a man thinks in his heart, so is he."
"What fellowship has light with darkness?" He must cling to one and hate the other.
"A double-minded man is unstable in all his ways."
BUT for me:
"...though I have faith so that I could move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing..."
He tells me all the time that I have to believe the best of him, believe IN him, he doesn't want to be that man, etc. I long to hear these things, and to an extent I believe them...usually when I'm with him. And then, when I'm all alone the betrayal and lies rack and mock me; my "safe" place to sob is when I'm in the shower with the door locked.
We lost, and grieve for, the beauty of the deep love we held only for our husbands. Such a mockery to feel like he was always looking past me over my shoulder.
He says he never, in his mind, chose "them" over me.
I've quit journaling for now, but for several months I poured out my tears and my raging anger into that book. A lot of things that I had brushed away during our marriage suddenly became huge issues to me since I see things differently. Before I knew about all this, "love covered a multitude of sins"--these weren't actually sins, but little things that had twinged my heart but I swallowed down as thinking "he didn't mean it".
But now that I see everything so differently, those things all come back to slap me and show me what really was real.
I don't know how I can fully trust again. Especially in this area; it's not like I could smell alcohol on his breath. There's no way to know other than trusting his word. 11 months ago, I would have believed anything he told me.
I don't know how we could ever make it if we believe the worst and hope for the best. So I guess it's one awful day at a time until we find ourselves in God.
FHL, Hurting, and Oneday,
Yes, I know exactly those feelings. I grieve so much loss. Each day is different and even the good ones, I find myself looking for the other stuff to come.
My husband also has the Love Dare squirreled away and even some of the things he has said have come directly from the book, False Intimacy that he has read from the counselor. It deals with addiction to all things sexual, P, M and affairs. He told me that he never thought I would find out but if I did, he didn't expect to be able to stay one hour. He constantly is telling me how he loves me more now than ever before. It is like a slap in the face.
I also have journaled and found that over the years, that there were lots of things that I swallowed down and also that I kept praying for a better marriage. I hated the little bickering, the selfishness, and the "unseen" wedge between us. Now I see it with spriitual eyes and see it for what it was. His sin had driven us apart. He couldn't maintain a true close relationship and continue in that sin. The secrets were between us and it was overspilling into other areas. I was confused about the problem, thinking I was too critical, demanding, something...he would even say that he didn't feel like I respected him enough and was not supportive enough. Now he has confessed that he had to keep some emotional distance in order to cover his lies.
We have decided on a contract of 90 days abstinence as recommended by all of the books surrounding Sexual Addiction. When first suggested, he fought it all the way. He kept approaching me sexually, saying it was okay as long as it was with his wife. I finally confronted him and asked him DO YOU REALLY WANT TO GET WELL? He was flabbergasted that I thought he didn't. He re-read his SA book False Intimacy and the workbook from his SA group and realized he had only been fooling himself. He was just using sex btwn us to fulfill those needs and it would never be true healing. God has dealt with his heart and he says he is committed to it b/c he wants to honor GOD, me, and our relationship. It will be hard for everyone. He wants to sign a contract with our counselor and commit to it.
I wonder constantly is he serious or is he just manipulating me.
On the legal front, he has agreed to give me money to see the attorney to draw up the Post Nuptial agreement. It will put all the equity in our home, vehicles and bank accounts in my name alone and to give me 65% of all his retirement if he ever is unfaithful again or if after 1 year of counseling we are unable to reconcile. It does make me feel like he is more serious about it and I definitely let him know I intend to hold him to it if he fails. I don't expect perfection from him but I absolutely expect him to be faithful, no matter what from here on out.
I also am planning to ask him for all phone records every month for the rest of the year. I want to rebuild trust but it has to be built over time and will not be handed over again carte blanche.
I don't know how to fight the good fight on the bad days and I recently ran across a quote that speaks volumes to me and made him quake in his shoes. I printed it and put it on the refrigerator, not as a punishment to him but as a reminder to all of us in this family (kids included).
Sow a thought, reap an action.
Sow an action, reap a habit.
Sow a habit, reap a character.
Sow a character, reap a destiny.
It is exactly what I feel. What seeds we sow always are harvested. Whether godly or not. If he had turned his thought life over to Christ 7 years ago, we wouldn't be here today. The same is true for me. I need to be reminded of what seeds I am sowing.
I dread this weekend, when he is gone. It is always worse for me. I don't sleep and I review too much. Pray for me to take care of business and enjoy my time with just my little boy. I don't want to sit up late reminded of all that I have lost.
God bless you all and give us the strength and joy of the moring.
bleedingout
I recently came across a model to explain the different approaches that you can take to influence another's behavior. Meditating on it has been a welcome relief from emotional drama, so I thought I'd share...
Imagine that you have a piece of fruit - say a peach. The outer skin represents actions that you can take. In this series of posts, these actions might include confronting a spouse or checking phone logs. Sometimes, these actions are effective if for no other reason than that they bring a behavior to light. However, this approach is one that really only begins to scratch the surface and is far from a long-term fix. The inner, edible part of the peach represents systems that can be put in place to deter certain behavior, such as website filters and post-nuptual contracts. Again, these can be effective, but they do little to nothing to restore the trust that is so critical, and they still don't necessarily get at the root of the problem. But the pit/seed represents an approach that involves influencing another's understanding and beliefs. Getting to the core, so to speak. It also represents the greatest opportunity for growth. So you plant it. The frustrating thing about it is that there is no guarantee that the pit will grow into a tree. We can't fully explain how a seemingly inert seed is capable of such tremendous life. You do what you can to find suitable soil, sunlight and water. Beyond that though, it is in God's hands.
In some ways, that is very comforting. In other ways, it's a scary (uncertain) place to be.
Hope you're finding some peace in all this madness.