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What Do You Think of Childless Restaurants?

Posted by Jim_Daly on Aug 3, 2011 5:08:16 AM

Just two weeks ago McDain's Restaurant and Golf Center in Monroeville, Pennsylvania, implemented a new rule that  bans children under the age of six.nochild1.gif

 

According to owner Mike Vuick, there’s “nothing wrong with babies, but the fact is you can't control their volume.”

 

One occurrence is not a trend, but there seems to be evidence of a growing impatience or downright irritation with young children these days. Or at the very least, there appears to be an unwillingness to recognize a distinction between children who are well behaved and kids who wreak havoc in public places.

 

In Missouri, Whole Foods announced “child-free shopping hours.” Earlier this summer, Malaysia Airlines announced a ban on babies in their first-class cabins. Other airlines are expected to follow suit. And some movie theaters have even started offering “adult-only” viewings of films that would otherwise be of interest to an entire family.childfree3.jpg

 

Is this simply a matter of business, of catering to public demand - or does it point to something more unfortunate in our culture?

 

When Trent and Troy were young, Jean and I did our best with them while eating out or flying on airplanes. But children are unpredictable and you can’t guarantee compliance or smooth sailing. Even now, when I see parents struggling with their children, I tend to feel compassion, not condemnation. That’s because anybody who has been a parent knows full well the challenges of a public meltdown.

 

Perhaps that’s part, if not the whole, of the problem.Childrenblessing.jpg

 

With the decreasing birthrate and more couples choosing to remain childless, is this trend inevitable?

 

Perspective is a powerful and poignant thing. I recently read of an incident that is said to have occurred out on the west coast during the California Gold Rush. With so many men and so few women in that culture, children became a rarity. But one night a woman with a baby decided to attend the theater and just as the orchestra began to play, her child started to cry.

 

“Stop those fiddles and let the baby cry,” hollered a man from the pit. “I haven’t heard such a sound in ten years!”

 

According to the story, the audience roared its approval.

 

Here at Focus on the Family, we embrace Psalm 127:3, that “Children are a blessing from the Lord.”

 

But turning back to the current debate that is swirling, I would welcome your thoughts on this apparent trend toward childless venues.

 

What do you think? Is there a time and place for this? Or is this a sign of a growing intolerance toward children?

 

 

ALSO THIS WEEK:  Monday: Are You the Next Guy?  Tuesday: Who Manages Your Budget?  Thursday: Facebook Recognizes Preborn Life  Friday:  When Mothers Meddle

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Aug 3, 2011 7:29 AM Guest Agnes  says:
I truly believe children are a blessing from the Lord. My husband and I have three children and sometimes we do all go out to eat. I would hate to see all restaurants become childfree, since I do enjoy eating out with my family. However, I do think there is a need for childfree places. We manage a date night maybe once every 3 months. By the time we hire a sitter and spend money on the date it is just too expensive to do it more often than that. It is very frustrating for us if we have spent $10 an hour to pay a sitter so we can have time together and we end up surrounded by children, who are loud and not acting right. While I realize there are many children who do behave, it is hard to predict how they will act. If we had a childfree restaurant close to where we lived, I would probably go there when we got a chance for that rare date night.
Aug 3, 2011 8:38 AM Guest Nick  says:

You should have seen the looks we got two nights ago when my two year old son was throwing a fit at the restaruant.  We don't go out very often right now for that very reason.  I am not offended by others not wanting to be around my screaming child.  I can't imagine that all restaurants (or theaters, etc.) will follow this.  If it would help keep young children out of PG-13 and R rated movies, I'm all for it even.

 

If someone already doesn't "like" children, seeing a screaming child at a restaurant is only bound to support their reasons for dislike rather than make them fall in love with the child.

Aug 3, 2011 11:50 AM Guest DeWayne  says:
I can agree with both Nick and Agnes. I celebrate my child and love her so much it hurts, but it isn't offensive to have places where I would have to leave her with a sitter. Some weddings are like that and then the adults who come can relax easier. (Have you ever tried to enjoy one with a toddler?). I also think it's great if all movie theaters enforced the "no children in R-rated movies" rule, even if a parent or guardian is willing to bring them. I would be cautious however, that churches who are trying to reach the world do not embrace this type of exclusionism.
Aug 3, 2011 12:43 PM Guest Sarah  says:
I agree with the above comments. Within a week I'll be a mom to five kids, so we definitely feel kids are blessings. But sometimes you need a break from the blessings! HA! We went on a date night one time to O'Charleys and it must have been free kids night b'c we were SURROUNDED!!! It was miserable! It wasn't anything I would have noticed had we had ours with us, but there are times when a nice, quiet dinner is great. I think some of this "no children" trend is maybe due to parents feeling "entitled" - it's a child, she's crying, and everyone else can get over it? Or a lot of times I see parents in restaurants that don't even react when their kids are screaming but instead just continue their conversation. I didn't raise kids in the 30s or 50s so I can't compare. But, to me, if parents are going to come in and not PARENT their children, then I might be prone to not let them either -  if my restaurant was one that people wanted to come to for dates. By the way, we don't go to O'Charleys on date nights anymore!
Aug 3, 2011 2:36 PM Guest Sarabeth  says:
I'm torn on this. On one hand, I agree with everyone above in that a few "adult-only" options are okay and great for a date night. When we do take our 3 kids out, it is only to kid-friendly places like Red Robin. On the other hand, I do see in our culture a growing trend of intolerance toward young children. I always greatly appreciate people (usually elderly) who stop at grocery stores or restaurants to talk to my children or otherwise show patience and even joy toward them. But it seems more and more that even a small cry from my 2 year-old illicits looks of annoyance from those around me. The thing is, how can our children learn how to behave in public if they are not allowed or tolerated in public?
Aug 3, 2011 5:28 PM Guest Roger  says:
I love children.  I have three grown children of my own, and have had 15 foster children through my home.  I believe there is a place in the world for all kinds.  I think it is fine if places don't want to serve children.  If too many do that, then a new market will develop to cater to people with children.  It's the nature of a free economy.  People develop ideas (which become trends) in order to meet needs.  This idea of adults-only restaurants, or child-free hours at a store, are happening because someone sees a need.  If so many places become "child-free" that it becomes difficult for families to take care of needs, someone will seek to fill that need, and even profit from it.  I don't think it is anything to worry about.
Aug 3, 2011 5:29 PM Guest Susan  says:

I think we need to get to the root of the problem -- how many parents today actually take the time and effort to properly train their children on how to behave in public?  Children are not born with these skills inherently.

 

When our children were small, we had a lot of cheap meals at Friendly's where they learned how to remain seated, lower their voices, eat politely, etc.  When they failed, it didn't bother anyone because it wasn't a five star restaurant.

 

Now, we can take our 7, 6, and 3 year old anywhere.  They know what is expected of them, and enjoy the treat of a nice dinner out.  We took our two oldest (girls) out for "high tea" at a fancy hotel at Christmastime to reward them for all they have learned about table manners.

 

Too many parents leave the parenting to the rest of the world (the schools, etc.) or just expect their kids to know how to behave.

 

I think as a society we have to meet in the middle -- more tolerance of the little ones being out, but more effort by their parents to "train them up in the way they should go."

Aug 3, 2011 5:43 PM Guest Anne S.  says:

Granted children are a blessing, but the parents that allow them to run rampant through a restaurant or store should be the ones banned.  Several times I have been almost mowed down by children running.  When I pulled this stunt my mother would first give me the look.  That said you are about 45 seconds away from a spanking, young lady.  WEll if I decided to cross the next line, that was when I had to pick my switch and well you know the rest.  But the worst part is the parents that allow them to run about and step on people's feet.  I still carry some scars from being stomped hard on my feet resulting in breaking my toes.  I've usually not said anything, but when I do, the mothers are incensed that I would dare to tell their sweet hellion to slow down and not run.  Today my feet, tomorrow a five to ten for holding up the local convience store.  Discpline had to start somewhere.

Aug 3, 2011 5:31 PM Guest Monique T.  says:

Dear Mr. Daly,

 

You might want to look into the "child-free" shopping hours for Whole Foods in Missouri a little deeper. It's actually a service FOR parents to shop for up to 2 hours while their children are being taken care by workers at the store. It's a benefit to families and should be cited as such.

 

Sincerely,

Monique T.

Aug 3, 2011 5:32 PM Guest Erin  says:
I tend to see of it as a annoyance of children who's parents choose not to discipline.  Yes, kids will have meltdowns, but I've been in places with my 4 children where people with one or two children let them run completely wild!  Up and down isles, around restaurants, etc.  No restraint!  I'm more of thinking this is the issue rather than the noise volume.  Sometimes my kids will even stare at the child and ask me why their parents let them act like that.  So, with that being said, I don't think the new policies are right, but it also is not right for everyone else to have to tolerate a child that is misbehaving and disrupting. 
Aug 3, 2011 5:34 PM Guest Kris C.  says:

I think that the reason public places can't make a distinction between well-behaved children and those who wreak havoc is that parents who choose not to discipline their holy terrors are often those with the sense of entitlement mentioned earlier - that everyone else needs to tolerate their child's screaming - and they may be likely to raise a hue and cry or sue because their screaming child is asked to leave the restaurant while a quiet child is allowed to stay.  How does a restaurant prove that one child's behavior met the criteria to get them kicked out, when they're in court months later?  It is far easier to simply ban children under a certain age.

 

I don't mind having certain places that are adult only - I think that those restaurants and movie theaters are responding to consumer demand.  But I also agree that we need to be able to take our children out in public or they'll never learn how to act in public.  (My boys are 5 and 8, and they've been in many varied public situations with us over the years, and when they've caused disruption, they've learned that removal from the situation is one of the consequences.  Not fun for parents, but definitely better for discipline and for the innocent bystanders.)

Aug 3, 2011 5:36 PM Guest Mike  says:
Similar to Sarabeth.  On the one had I think businesses should be free of government controls or rules, I would prefer to see market forces drive business success or failure.  On the other hand I think this is very indicative of a sad trend of complete self-centeredness and me first attitude that trends toward couples not marrying at all (what for? what's in it for me?) and then not having kids when they do marry (what's in it for me?  kids will just slow me down getting what i want for myself...).  I think the answer to both is to influence culture but not try to mandate it.
Aug 3, 2011 5:37 PM Guest Cinda  says:
It is a business and businesses are privately owned.  Therefore, their choice.  That being said . . . this is a trend that is becoming sadly very prominent.  And, it follows on the lack of discipline and respect in the home.  Parents who are too busy with work and other obligations to raise their children.  Children having children and not knowing how to parent and not willing to listen to those who do.  And now, we have young people who not only do not care to marry, if they do, they are deciding that they do NOT want children.  It truly isn't just about these few instances listed in the blog.  Much prayer is needed.
Aug 3, 2011 6:32 PM Guest mary c.  says:
i feel this is not a 'growing intolerance' for children in general, just those that are not well behaved. i was shopping for a dress for a wedding (i haven't done that in years, and was looking forward to the experience, however, there were two boys, perhaps 7 and 9, who where running and hiding between the racks of dresses. their mother and grandmother were also shopping and often told them to stop, which they never did. this ws very disruptive and i couldn't wait to leave. so, i do agree there should be times when it's 'adult only'. also, i remember attending a Christian retreat and they had designated times for 'adult only' swimming - 1/2 hour. it was a joy to swim and not worry about being splashed or jumped on.
Aug 3, 2011 5:42 PM Guest Victoria E  says:
In this day and age when too many parents have decided that their children are a blessing to everyone no matter how they behave, that they would rather be their children's friend than their authority figure, and when too many parents have forgotten that their children do not belong wherever the parents go, I am not surprised by the fact that establishments are going childfree. I am sure almost everyone can name multiple times when an event was made difficult by other people's misbehaving children. I love to see parents with their children when the children are under control, or removed from the scene when they become difficult. My husband and I were complimented many times because our children were well behaved. It can be done and they can be a delight but it takes work and determination and being more persistent than the children!
Aug 3, 2011 5:43 PM Guest Mistie  says in response to Agnes:
Agreed. My husband and I rarely go out alone and when we do, it would be nice to be able to ensure a nice time. I have experienced way too many kids that are out of control in public places. Someone else's two year old at my table for most of my meal is not enjoyable. There are way too many parents that allow their children to do whatever they want. I don't think that this is so much an intolerance of children but an intolerance of the parents that feel that their children should be allowed to behave however they please even if it causes an uncomfortable experience for those around them.
Aug 3, 2011 5:44 PM Guest Malissa  says:
I can understand the decision to make one's restaurant child-free.  I can understant the special nights for adults-only movie viewing, no babies in first class, etc.  We parents need to understand that not everyone is in awe of our children.  : )  We have two children who were not allowed to be loud in places such as restaurants and movie theatres, grocery stores, and so on.  When my sister and I were younger, our parents were very strict about our behavior in public, because they wanted to take us everywhere with them.  We enjoyed going to good movies, nice restaurants, and were allowed ot sit in "big" church because we were very well-behaved.  However, one cannot always control the cries of an infant on an airplane.  When an infant cries, if the parent cannot get the baby to stop, the parent must take the infant out of the room if possible (again, airplanes excluded).  An older child can sometimes be made to comply with parents' requests to be quiet.   If not, the child should be removed.  Another consequence can be given at home or in the car, for example.  It is the height of rudeness to subject others to the bad behavior or uncontrollable crying or noise of your children.  Yes, children must learn how to behave in public, but not at the expense of other adults or families.  Parents must be willing to take the time to discipline their children lovingly, with the goal of spending as much time with them as possible, in peace.
Aug 3, 2011 5:45 PM Guest Rise  says:

It is not the children who need banned, but the parents who cannot control the behavior of their children, or don't want to.

Aug 3, 2011 5:45 PM Guest Bill  says:

  I am a parent of 3 and a grandparent of 1, and I have mixed feelings about this rule.  On the one hand I love to go out and eat with our extended family, but I hate to eat at a resturant were there are kids screaming and crying and the parents are just sitting there talking to others at the table and totally ignoring their screaming child.  When my kids were young if they got tired of sitting there and started to get vocal, and my wife wanted to talk with her sisters for a while longer then it was time for Dad to take the kids outside so the others in the resturant could enjoy their meals.

 

  So I feel in many cases the parents are not spending the time to teach their kids to use their indoor voice, and sometimes one or both of the parents need to eat their maels quickly and take the kid outside.

Aug 3, 2011 5:46 PM Guest Julie  says:

Oh, this saddens me!  Are these comments really saying people prefer the absense of children, or are they actually saying we need to have parents do a better job of training their children so they are a blessing to others when out in public and not a curse?  Banning children from certain venues is not the answer.  Helping parents lovingly train their children (and perhaps know when not to bring children with them of their own choice (not because it's "not allowed")) is the better solution, I believe.

I have 4 daughters ages 10, 8, 6 & 3.5.  I try to remember to remind them when we go out in public that their job for that foray is to "be a blessing" to those in our path.  Somedays they do better than others.  But I have to say, I'm in agreement with Jim - when I see children acting unruly, etc. I have compassion on the parents.  And when I'm out and about w/o my girls (which is rare), I enjoy seeing other children, as they remind me of my own precious blessings (whether the child(ren) is acting as a blessing at the moment or not).

Aug 3, 2011 5:47 PM Guest jackie  says:

I do truly believe that children are a gift from God!

I also know that parenting is not happening in our culture.  We should not be afraid of our children, and we definitely should not allow our children to dictate our family-life nor our household. Parents are simply not parenting, and I think that THAT is the unfortunate trend in our society.

Aug 3, 2011 5:47 PM Guest Ron  says:
Children are a blessing, but not so much fun to listen to when you are trying to have a quiet or romantic evening out.  Children have no place in a restaurant if they cannot be controlled.  Understanding that there are times when there is no choice like on vacation, but if you are going out for the evening, get a baby sitter.  It always annoyed me to no end when my wife and I would hire a baby sitter so we could make the evening about one another only to have some screaming kid at the next table.  Too many parents, even Christian parents, have no idea how to control their kids.  This is not only irritating to those of us who took the time and effort to train our children, but it is also a bad witness.
Aug 3, 2011 5:48 PM Guest Greg  says:

My wife and I have two awesome boys, 3.5 and 5 years old.  When they were younger, they would occasionally have public crying or some other kind of disruption (or eruption), and I always believed it was my responsibility to remove them from the theater or other public performance so as not to disturb all the other customers.

 

I have been to many public performances, restaurants, etc, where there are crying babies, or worse -- out-of-control kids and the parents do little or NOTHING.  I believe this is the real problem -- that too few parents discipline their kids, or believe their "right" to see a performance outweighs the fact that their kids are disturbing all the other patrons.

Aug 3, 2011 5:48 PM Guest Diana  says in response to Sarah:
I agree with Sarah.  I had 3 children of my own and have 5 grandchildren.  I love to be with them and go out to resturants and other places with them.  However, there has been such a change in "parenting" or lack thereof, that in so very many cases, parents turn a deaf ear to screaming children, throwing tantrums in pubic, or their just running around wild disrupting others while eating or watching a concert, etc.  If young people would be more conscientious in training, discipline and teaching thoughtfulness and respect for others, there would be very little need to seek child free places for 'older or less noise tolerent and not used to children' people.  When our kids misbehaved in public, or the baby started to cry or fuss, there was an immediate exit to the car to take care of the situation.  They did not grow up to hate or resent us, were really good kids that we took most everywhere, and are wonderful christian adults now with productive lives and close relationships with us.  They knew there were boundries and expected standards of behavior.  We were not perfect, but we did not inflict problems on those around us to suffer through if something became an issue!  I will choose child free when I go somewhere if I have that opportunity now.  It's usually a parent issue, not the child!
Aug 3, 2011 5:50 PM Guest Rhya  says:

I think that anyone who wants to have a "childfree night" deserves one. I've been out at a restaurant on more than one occassion to eat a nice meal with a group of "childfree" friends and had the night ruined by screaming kids. One of them one time was throwing icecubes at our table across the aisle. This was not a kid friendly restaurant (no kids menu, highchairs, etc) and that was why we chose to go there as a group. Lately we've resorted to meeting at each other's houses and those with kids get a sitter for the evening. It's the only way we can get the quiet we're after.

 

Grocery shopping without kids running back and forth in front of the cart and handling all the produce would be nice too...

 

As far as movies being kid free, I hope it happens. There is a lot of stuff in movies that I don't think kids should see, and nothing makes me cringe more than going to a 14A or over movie and seeing little kids in the theatre with Mom or Dad because they didn't want to get a sitter.

Aug 3, 2011 5:51 PM Guest Shelley  says:

We are the parents of 4 young adult children, we always took our children everywhere we went, that is how they learn to behave properly in different types of places.  I realize that children's behavior CAN be unpredictable but it is the parents responsibility to administer correction/discipline if the behavior is unacceptable ( that might include taking an unruly child outside or to the restroom to deal with them).  Yes, parents you need to start acting like you are the parent and not the child.

I work in an area store and I am appalled at the behavior of most of the children and I do not really blame the kids I blame the parents, they are "doing their own thing" and not paying attention to their kids and letting them do whatever they want to.

We owned and operated a bed & breakfast for 12 yrs (most b&b's do not accept children) and when asked if we accepted children our reply was always "We take kids with well-behaved parents!"  We never had a problem and never had a complaint from any of our guests.

Aug 3, 2011 5:51 PM Guest Ann  says:
I have 4 children, two biological and two adopted.  I love them all and fully agree that children are a blessing.  I don't see anything insidious about this idea.  If some restaurants want to cater only to adults or to not have children under 6, I think this is fine.  I believe there will always be restaurants that are kid-friendly and want to have the business of all families.    If a family with small children goes to a kid-friendly restaurant, the parents can relax, knowing that they are welcome.  If a couple needs a quiet evening out and is paying for such an evening, let them enjoy that in peace.  As parents, I don't think we need to "demand our rights" to have our children in every setting regardles of their behavior.  That, in my opinion, is being child-centered in an unhealthy way and inconsiderate of others.
Aug 3, 2011 7:12 PM Guest Libby K.  says:

My husband and I have three children, 23, 18 and 16. We are against restaurants going childless. We have always taken our children out to restaurants to eat even dining with white table clothes with toddlers. We feel it is very important at a young age to teach your child how to have manners in various situations including behaving appropriately in restaurants.

 

We are of the mind set that it is very much a way to honor God to teach our children to be able to adapt to various situations. We do not believe kids should only be taken to McDonalds to eat. We raised our children with praise and when needed time outs. It was easy for us since we started at a young age.

 

We have seen a trend today with parents allowing children to run wild in various places. And we are afraid this is what lead to the intolerance of children in some restaurants. A few bad apples can ruin it for the rest of us. I was shocked to watch a mom and dad allow their kids to run through a restaurant a few months ago and they laughed. They ran and disturbed others. I so much wanted to say something but could not come up with the words without coming across judgemental.

 

We believe in talking a lot to our kids and explaining why they act a certain way. But Dr Dobson's books from the start with our son who is now 23 helped a lot raising these children.

 

Lets all walk the walk with our children and be good examples to others. Not perfect, but make a good effort daily. This way others will see children as allowable in restaurants even if they might have an occassional problem.

Aug 3, 2011 7:14 PM Guest Nick M.  says:
My parents didn't take us to restaurants, I think I might have been ten years old before I saw the inside of a restaurant, me and my older brother didn't know what the scoop of butter was on our pancakes!  I have had many a meal ruined by screaming children, (I don't have any children I'm 51) restaurants are expensive and I would tend to agree that children not be allowed in restaurants especially on Valentines day. But otherwise they don't tend to bother me when they are well mannered.
Aug 3, 2011 5:52 PM Guest Ginger  says in response to Sarabeth:
I would not go to a restaurant that prohibits bringing children. They need the experience to learn how to behave in public. If a child is screaming and very disruptive, I think it is up to the parent to temporarily remove that child and return when the behavior settles down.
Aug 3, 2011 5:54 PM Guest Darlene  says:
I think if more parents did a better job of training their children we would not be having this discussion.  I don't see this as a revolt against children as much as it is a revolt against parents abdicating their responsibility.   Yes, the culture is becoming less friendly towards children, however, a well-trained child in a public place is a wonderful testimony.
Aug 3, 2011 5:56 PM Guest Renee  says:

There's a big difference between little ones who are having a terrible twos (or threes) tantrum and children who are allowed to run amuck and be disruptive.  Some parents anymore seem to let their kids run around in restaurants, stores or even the theater.  These kids aren't just having a meltdown like any kid will. They are simply allowed to run wild. I've seen waitstaff in restaurants trying to dodge little ones that were allowed to crawl around on the floor (not even remotely close to the parent's table either), watched children at restaurant buffets sticking their hands into the food (no responsible adult was nearby for oversight) and have seen unattended children throwing things from store shelves onto the floor.

 

I know you've seen it, too.

 

I believe that it is these types of cases that have spawned "child free" restaurants and the like.  I don't think it's a general societal bias against children.

Aug 3, 2011 5:56 PM Guest Patricia  says:

People we need to get involved with our children again!

Join with ParentalRights.org.

Be allowed to raise our children with morals and respect.

Homeschool them if we can.

Be someone that they look up to and want to copy.

Show them how God belongs in EVERY area of their lives as

He does in our lives. Not just Sunday mornings.

Yes we are heading for more divison in the family, but only if

we allow it. Boycott things that divide families.

If we don't do what God calls us to do training up our children

then we only have ourselves to blame.

Yes if your child starts to even make a fuss when you're out you

should remove yourself and the child.

Talk with the child and if they do not improve then you might find

the need to leave completely.

Maybe they will have to loose out on some other fun time event to

learn the lesson. Is it a pain...yes but the child will learn that bad

behavour will not be tolerated.

What kind of an example are we setting for the young adults and

generations to come?

Reminds me of Chitty Chitty Bang Bang...

Yes we do have 2 boys and they love going out with us. Especially

when people comment on how good they are acting. No they are

not perfect and yes we have had to remove ourselves a few times.

They've learned and try their best. They desire to please and see

others happy with them. Sometimes we've removed ourselves

because of other people's children and explained how we didn't want

them to learn that the way the other children were acting was normal.

Aug 3, 2011 5:57 PM Guest Ron S.  says:

As much a I love kids [and most of all my grandkids!], it is often difficult to enjoy a night out when there are noisy, misbehaved children in the vicinity...whatever the venue.  Unfortunately nowadays, many parents are either unconcerned or inept regarding parenting and caring/disciplining their children and often tend to 'let them run free'.  Since it is impractical to expect management of any business to selectively 'exclude' or deny service to a family on an individual basis [especially in today's world], it seems to me a great idea to have some establishments that are for 'adults only'....with relative peace and quiet being the objective.  There will always be adequate demand by and a large market in the 'family set'...I don't think that is a concern.  Recently my wife and I vacationed at a resort in AZ and were delighted to learn that it had an 'adults only' pool in additon to the [much larger] 'open' pool.  The quiet enjoyment and peacefulness at the adult pool were wonderful!  Having the option of chosing a "no kids" event or venue would be welcome...while still having plenty of McDonalds and waterparks to enjoy with my grandkids.   :-)

 

This from a very conservative, old-school guy.

Aug 3, 2011 5:59 PM Guest Lisa  says in response to Sarabeth:
There is a time and a place.  I am not concerned that this trend will spread to all establishments.  There will continue to be family friendly restaurants where our children can learn to behave.  I agree with the comment that a screaming child will not help others to love children or tolerate them better. In fact, it can easily lead to condemnation (as stated earlier) and judging coming from others.  Both the person judging and the person being judged is hurt spiritually.  If environments are provided so this can be avoided, I think it is a good thing.
Aug 3, 2011 6:00 PM Guest LaVonne  says:
I don't particularly have a problem w/in limits.  I am a mother of 5 & thoroughly enjoy those rare times when I get out w/out my children.  It's sometimes very aggravating to listen to children scream while I'm out, particularly because it seems like fewer parents seem to care or even try to do anything about it.  We had a theatre that did enforce no children at R rated films after 6 pm.  I LOVED that.  I go to the movies & don't want to deal w/crying children as parents don't even take them out anymore.  I find that incredibly rude as I paid for the movie as well.  I don't think family friendly movies should be adults only...that's why they are family friendly.  I can see the appeal to no children restaurants...we go to family friendly ones if the whole family goes out.  Otherwise, I try to go later in the evening to hopefully avoid too many children.  Children are unpredictable, so parents should take that into account when they are doing anything.  We didn't even take one of my daughters to the theatres.  She's AWFUL in a theatre, lol.  It's just not worth it.  I don't enjoy anything about the experience & don't even get to see the movie as I do take her out.  If parents know there child can't sit for an entire meal in a sit down restaurant, don't take them.  Get your food to go.  I just wish parents would be responsible in their decision making.
Aug 3, 2011 6:00 PM Guest Kathy  says:
I tend to agree with the other commenters. I have three children whom I consider some of God's best blessings in this world. I homeschool them, and I truly enjoy them. Although they are generally well-behaved, they have their moments. But if I want to be child-free for an evening, I want to be child-free. I also dislike it when I am surrounded by other parents' misbehaving children. You should see the looks my own kids give when they see other kids acting up in public. So even though I understand childish misbehavior, loud wild youngsters are an irritation on those rare times I get uninterrupted time to visit with my husband. I come down on the side of applauding the places who will give us a much-needed break from not only our own children, but everyone else's as well.  There are plenty of places where it is appropriate to bring children, and I take mine with me almost everywhere I go. It doesn't bother me not to take them where they might be a nuisance to others trying to relax.
Aug 3, 2011 6:01 PM Guest Bill  says:
When our children were young, we always took them along unless we were going to an adults only function. We also did not tolerate bad behavour especially in public and as a result, our children were well behaved. Today, I would not take children to a bar and grill such as Applebys or Chilis. However there are many family friendly places such as Bob Evans, Cracker Barrel and many more. I have also noticed that children are not as polite or well behaved as they were fifty years ago when my children were young and I don't blame a business owners that elect to make their business' adults only. This may be the reason for business' to be restricting children and this decision belongs to the business owner and not the general public.
Aug 3, 2011 7:34 PM Guest Linda D.  says:

I think it's a good thing concerning any places that serve alcohol at all.

 

While this may not be a popular opinion, I am of the generation where parents got babysitters for us concerning supper club outings, which were childfree events for them and quite a healthy thing.

Aug 3, 2011 6:01 PM Guest Jane  says:

Baby boomers are the largest segment of our society and they're getting older. They have a lot of clout and they will impact our society in huge ways for the next few decades. The U.S. would be a different place if some 50 million more children were born post 1973. We are reaping what we have sown.

Aug 3, 2011 6:01 PM Guest Sharon R  says:

This is symptomatic of the trends in our society, which need to be reversed to get back to following Biblical wisdom and commands in all aspects of our lives.  Fast forward this trend and you get France who's general population is highly medicated for depression as a result of how they treat / "parent" their children.  The restaurants should ban the parents until they learn to parent.

Aug 3, 2011 6:02 PM Guest MARY  says in response to Erin:
We are both 75 years.  I love my kids, grandchildren and great-grandkids.  When we go to a fine dining restaurant for fun and relaxation, we do not want kids there.  When we go to a place like Applebee, we know there are kids and we except whatever.  We love little children, of course, but like others have said, it's the parents who don't control them.
Aug 3, 2011 6:02 PM Guest kristen  says:
I am mother to 3 and am NOT surprised this is happening.  I believe the blame lies with the parent(s).  Our current society has children running amok over their parents, and how do parents deal with it- they don't.  Perhaps it will take some toes being stepped-on for 'mom' and 'dad' to wake-up and smell the diaper!  Here's a good rule of thumb in life- just because you can - doesn't mean you should!
Aug 3, 2011 7:38 PM Guest Tim  says:
I don't know. I kind of agree with you all that there could be a time and a place where a childless restaurant is in order, but it's the underlying current of things these days that bothers me. Like the cafe that posted that screaming or disruptive children will be asked to leave (or something of the sort). We have a child on the autism spectrum and one that hasn't been diagnosed as such, but probably is on the spectrum. As much as we try to prepare, they do have meltdowns sometimes. We do take action and will take them out if need be. It's bad enough that folks stare and whisper that our children are brats or just need a good spanking, but if a restaurant ever asked us to totally leave because our children aren't tolerated, that would make me angry. I know that this is a little different, but I'm afraid this could become a slippery slope and become a more intolerance type thing instead of a convenience thing. I have mixed feelings on this one.
Aug 3, 2011 7:41 PM Guest Anna Lee E.  says:
I certainly understand why some restaurants do not want children but I think places should be making things more kid friendly instead of kicking them out.
Aug 3, 2011 7:41 PM Guest Marcia R.  says:
This is a tricky question.  Some children are well behaved in public and then there are others who are not.  The problem WE have by eating out in public is with the ADULTS who act up...who complain about the food, who eat noisily, who don't pick up after themselves, who don't take care of their children, who dress sloppily, who are rude to those with them and those around them.  A child who hasn't been trained is one thing, but an adult who doesn't even care is altogether another thing.
Aug 3, 2011 7:42 PM Guest John  says:
While some businesses may be banning children out of dislike for families, I would support businesses which enforce this.  In short, I am sick and tired of parents who do not control their children while in public.  It has come to a point where I cannot enjoy time with my spouse and/or family while dining out or traveling.  I think a better solution would be for businesses to establish and enforce rules against disruptive behavior by both children and adults.  Unfortunately, most, if not all, businesses are spineless when it comes to speaking out to their customers whose children are disrupting everyone's dining experience.  So what happens is that everyone else suffers because a manager or business owner does not have the courage to tell a customer to control their children or leave the premises.  If more businesses enforced such common sense rules, more parents would get their act together.  Absent that, I am for banning children from restaurants and certain sections of airplane cabins.
Aug 3, 2011 6:06 PM Guest Ed  says:

My first reaction is, Isn't this a violation of public-accomodation laws?  You can't ban African-Americans from being served, so presumably, you can't ban children either.  The case of Whole Foods is not so clear, because the children would not be doing the shopping.

 

But then, I thought, if policies like this are allowed to stand, they actually strengthen the case that, e.g., Christian wedding photographers, make when they decline to photograph same-sex commitment ceremonies.  Gay-rights pressure groups say this is a violation of public-accommodation laws.  It's not, because they're not saying they won't do business with gays; they're just saying their business does not include that kind of ceremony.  If restaurants can ban children and this is ruled to be legal, then Christian businesses will be able to cite this as a precedent in managing their business as they see fit.

 

As long as there are still restaurants and food stores that accept children, it wouldn't bother me.  Few families with children can afford to shop at Whole Paycheck anyway.

Aug 3, 2011 6:07 PM Guest Sue  says:

I also believe that Children are a blessing from God and know there are times when it's unavoidable to have children out at certain times.  My problem comes with those parents who have the kids out way past bedtime or nap time.  They children can't be blammed for not behaving - for crying almost hysterically.  They need to be home, in bed; having already been fed - feeling secure.  We had 4 children and raised 3 grandchildren for 11 yrs.  During those years we knew we had to sacrifice going out to fancy restaurants unless we could afford a babysitter.  Now when we do enjoy a evening out, I am occasionally assaulted by children who are either screaming so loud that we can't enjoy a conversation, kicking the bench so loud that it nearly drives us nuts, or they actually get food in my hair.

 

Do I agree with restaurants setting a policy to limit children of a certain age from coming in; unfortunately, yes.  As long as parents refuse to use self control and administer good parenting skills then it is left to the owners of businesses to make their establishment one that people are willing to patronize.

Aug 3, 2011 7:47 PM Guest Ken G.  says:

So it appears that there are some things money can't buy you.  No  matter how rich you are, if you want to take your young children along  -- you can't shop during certain hours at some grocery stores, you can't  fly first class, or eat in some restaurants.

 

'Family'  seems to continue its journey of becoming a dirty word in our society.   Time to boycott perhaps?  Not sure.  Of course, those with real money  can hire a Mary Poppins while they go out to shop for 'whole foods'  (non-capital spelling mine) or eat fancy.  And yes, what's an extra ticket in  economy for the nanny to sit with the kids?

 

And by the way, not only are we allowing others to come and take over  our land -- we're fighting the North American family to the point where  we are encouraging more and more childless families with trends such as  these.  We must all have an innate wish to become "minorities".   We're  so good at pursuing it.  But ultimately we'll fail for the simple reason that God ordained the family and our Lord and Savior loves "little" children.  Which part are some people not understanding?
Aug 3, 2011 6:08 PM Guest Ann  says:

I'm a homeschool mother of five (ages 5-14) and love children. We take them with us when we shop, go to movies, go out to eat etc. I'm very proud of their behaviors in public and feel very blessed when other people notice and complement them on being well behaved. Children need to be taken out and taught what behavior is appropriate for what settings. Every child has a melt down, but that's when it's time to take them out of the setting and let them know that behavior is not appropriate for inside and not let them go back inside until they are calm. Being a mother of five, I've sacrificed many warm meals or parts of movies to do this, but now I'm reaping the benefits. I believe the problem isn't lack of tolerance I believe it's lack of discipline on the parents part so now the pulblic is expected to tolerate more. One of the number one things teachers complain about is the lack of respect children have. When is the last time you had a young man hold the door open for you? How about the simple please, thank you and excuse me? Children getting banned from resturants is a parent problem not a child problem and it's so sad to see the children not getting the training they need.

Aug 3, 2011 6:09 PM Guest Angie  says:

I too have mixed feelings on this issue.  I think it is fine to have childless restaurants, as many people have already responded, that are parents themselves, appreciate a quiet date night without other children around too.  But I also see a trend in our culture of intolerance to children, which is truly awful because they are such a blessing.  I so appreciate the story about the goldrush days...imagining such a scenario really warmed my heart!!!  Wouldn't that be grand to experience today on such a scale!!!

 

But we live in a different culture now, and in many ways that is unfortunate.  The family unit is not as strong as it use to be.

 

Anyhow...stick with me thru this please...as for the 'loudness and bad behavior' that kids can sometimes have in public places...honestly, I think alot of that comes right back to parenting.  Please don't get me wrong...I KNOW that kids are not perfect, and that just because a kid throws a fit, by no means does that show that the parenting is insufficient.  I am simply saying, that in many cases, especially perpetual issues with the problem, if the parent isn't addressing the issue in public, then it isn't being addressed in private either...and that simply IS bad parenting.  We have all seen those scenarios in public I am sure.  And just as bad are the parents screaming back at the child.  Again, I am not talking about the parents that are actively and appropriately discplining their childrens misbehavior in public.

 

But the whole issue of misbehaving children in public, I think as become more of an issue in recent years...simply by the shear volume of children that misbehave. There is alot of disrespect for parents. My opinion is that is the outcome of the breakdown of the family unit over generations.  There are more and more parents now that lacked parental discipline and unconditional love when they were growing up...they do not have an example of good parenting.  I guess that is one of the reasons why I love Focus on the Family...what an awesome ministry!!

 

As for me, when I am out in public enjoying a quiet time and I hear and see a screaming child...I will try to remember to focus on praying for the parent(s)...to set aside any of my annoyance, and simply pray for them.  That they may be enlightened in the areas they need as they raise adults to fear the Lord.

 

And when I want to ensure a quiet date night with my sweet hubby....then I can always aim to go somewhere children are less likely to be....isn't that what we do anyway?

Aug 3, 2011 6:09 PM Guest Wendy  says:

I agree with DeWayne about church tolerance for kids. One thing that I have noticed are that folks in the church are less tolerant of having kids in service. They often make excuses like, "my kid learns better when the lesson is geared toward his age," which I agree with--and that's why there's Sunday school. But there's been a trend where kids must be "babysat" during both services to give the parents a break--which is another form of entitlement. In my opinion, I think kids should be welcomed in the sanctuary for the church service once they hit the elementary years, so they learn how to behave and see what church is about by witnessing their parents and others around them worshipping God and learning about His Word.

Aug 3, 2011 6:09 PM Guest Tara  says:
I think the problem is not that people are impatient with children, but that they are impatient with their parents who do not try to discipline children. 
Aug 3, 2011 6:09 PM Guest sharon  says:
I see a marketing strategy here for BOTH sides and see both sides of the issue...BUT let's train those "adult only" times for the adults to be considerate with their cell phones turned off, no phone calls or texting in the theater and no talking during a movie..last few movies I have been to and out to eat, it is the adults next to us doing those things and causing more noise than the kids!
Aug 3, 2011 6:09 PM Guest Linda  says in response to Susan:
I agree with you, there is no reason children can not learn restuarant  manners.   We had 5 children and took them out plenty, they behaved themselves and even complained when other children acted poorly.    Children can learn to sit and be quiet.  Remember parents you are in charge not the kids.   On the other hand, I think there can be children free places.   If you have kids don't go there.   It is annoying to go out for dinner and have to listen to ill mannered children. Rates right up there with someone talking on a cell phone through dinner.         Nowadays, it's almost illegal to disapline your child and people are hauled off to jail if they hit their kids.  Kids rule not parents.  Remember your blessings may not be everyone elses'
Aug 3, 2011 6:09 PM Guest RG  says:
I have 3 young adult children -- I loved every stage of raising them. We worked hard to instill good manners and teach appropriate behavior. My children certainly weren't perfectly behaved in public places, so we addressed behavior issues promptly when they arose. I see so many families in public places that just do not address behavior issues when needed. It seems to me that these parents are being inconsiderate of others. Therefore, I appreciate the option of having a few child-free businesses. I think we can let the market dictate whether this is a desirable thing. I don't really think it says anything about our culture not valuing children, I think it says more about parents and their willingness (or lack of it) to visit age-appropriate restaurants and take responsibility for the hard work of teaching appropriate behavior. It requires much diligence, but it pays off greatly!
Aug 3, 2011 6:10 PM Guest Stephanie M.  says:
I love children dearly, but I am completely supportive of each of three examples referenced. Airlines make the most sense -  I travel a lot, and although I can't afford to sit in first class, I would be very upset to have a crying baby next to me after paying hundreds of extra dollars to sit in first class. I have been frustrated by disruptive kids in family movies and restaurants, so the decision to do that does not offend me at all.  Folks just have to pick a different time to see the movie or a different restaurant.  There are so many options, I don't see a problem. 
Aug 3, 2011 8:07 PM Guest Jim B.  says:
I think we have to respect the free enterprise system here.  If someone has identified a market niche for people who want to eat in child-free restaurants, let them pursue it.  There will always be a market for family-oriented restaurants.
Aug 3, 2011 8:08 PM Guest Katharine E.  says:

I, too, was fooled by the Missouri Whole Foods story, which (I believe) was originally reported in a misleading fashion by Yahoo. My husband actually called the St. Louis store to ask about it, since we were planning on making the trip to St. Louis (with our children) in part to shop at Whole Foods, and we wanted to make sure we didn't get there at the wrong time. We were told that the "child-free hours" were actually times when childcare would be available to parents while they shop, that parents were not required to place their children in the childcare area while shopping, and that the St. Louis Whole Foods doesn't have that program anyway. So, someone at Yahoo sensationalized that story quite a bit.

 

It doesn't bother me if a few restaurants and other businesses ban children. That's the free market at work, and as long as there are still plenty of options for families with small children, I'm not offended by it. My guess is that unless they're five-star restaurants that don't see many children anyway, they'll lose more business than they gain. However, I did want to say that as a parent of four children, when I go on a date night, I honestly don't care if other people's children are being noisy, because they're not my children and not my responsibility! I feel compassionate toward the poor parents, and I bask in the knowledge that I do not have to quiet down the offending children, decide whether or not to take them out of the restaurant, etc. I can tune it out because it's not my problem. I realize not everyone feels that way, but I did just want to add my two cents that not every parent feels she's wasted money on a babysitter just because someone else's children are being loud at the restaurant. (Now if they were stepping on my toes, that would be a different matter entirely...) And I do see less tolerance of the presence of children - even well-behaved children - in our culture, unfortunately.

Aug 3, 2011 8:10 PM Guest sandy f.  says:

I think people with multiple children really appreciate a restaurant without children more than us who only had one or two. Might be better if the restaurant had one or two nights a week advertised as a childless night so as not to offend those who would like to have their children with them.  That way, they could "have their cake and eat it too!"

Aug 3, 2011 6:11 PM Guest Amy  says in response to Susan:
Fantastic post!
Aug 3, 2011 8:11 PM Guest Charles M.  says:
I adore children. But I can certainly sympathize with people who wish to attend an up-scale expensive restaurant, and have a quiet, pleasant evening. If there is a market for  this, then great. On the flip side- McDonalds builds their playground restaurants, and cater to families with kids, and McDs has made millions of dollars, by going after kids! There is room for both. And if a movie theater wants to keep children out of the R-films then I am all for it. Lets celebrate the diversity, and the freedom of the marketplace. All of us can be accomodated.
Aug 3, 2011 8:11 PM Guest Leslie V.  says:
Ditto the general feelings of all the comments. Yes, children are a blessing from the Lord. I love mine (grown now) dearly, but that didn't mean that my husband and I didn't need a break from them sometimes. That's what date night is for. No one have to pay extra for the atmosphere and fine food, sometimes as much as $100 for the meal, and have someone else's precious child screaming loudly so that a conversation is impossible. My daughter-in-law had the experience of a child in the booth behind her playing in her hair throughout the meal at an expensive restaurant. The parents thought it was cute. Certainly it was not. There are restaurants and places where children are quite appropriate. Other places they are not. Think of it as valuing marriages rather than de-valuing children. Grown-ups need grown-up time. (And the comment about not taking toddlers to weddings to distract during a solemn moment is right on!)
Aug 3, 2011 8:18 PM Guest Dennis G.  says:

I wrote an opinion on my blog about this issue when I read the details in a Yahoo Shine article.  This is discrimination, pure and simple, and on the face of it may seem like 'common sense' to provide for those who choose not to deal with screaming kids.  The problem is, the rules exclude all kids AND THE PARENTS at the same time.  This is no different than someone being excluded from 'public accomodation' based on race or sex.  This is age discrimination at its core and is unlawful.

 

Where Oh Where is the ACLU?

Aug 3, 2011 6:14 PM Guest Valerie  says:
I agree with Susan!  Parenting is not the same as it once was.  My husband and I are new parents but we have been surprised at how different we are from most of our peers also getting started.  Training and discipline are just not done.  Most we talk to will agree that discipline is needed, they just will not follow through.  Like so many areas of society today, when the going gets tough, people back out or wimp out.  I think the childless restaurants are a result of how incredibly unruly most kids are as a result of a lack of discipline.  No one wants to sit down and eat next to them, even their parents.  That being said, in defense of those parents - parenting is hard!  Without Christ as my strength, I probably wouldn't be able to be consistent with training and discipline either.  Maybe that's what it comes down to?
Aug 3, 2011 8:20 PM Guest Carole P.  says:
I'm a senior...been through raising a child, a well behaved child so no problem. I've been in restaurants where kids are screaming, throwing utensils and food all over and it is annoying and at the same time I feel for the parents but then maybe it's the parents fault because they don't know how to control this behavior. I think more parents ought to watch the "Super Nanny" on TV...she shows you that it can be done and without spanking them.  What a blessing to watch that (and at my age too, haha).
Aug 3, 2011 6:16 PM Guest Linda  says:
I think the world needs to get a grip.  This is the most divided, anti-family, irritable, unforgiving, angry, selfish society I've ever seen.  It is an unfortunate that we are moving so far from what God would have us do for each other.  May God forgive us and set us straight.
Aug 3, 2011 8:21 PM Guest mimi  says:
I understand exactly what everyone is talking about.  We have 4 children (all grown now) but there were times we also wanted a date night and screaming children is not what we wanted to hear especially at the movies.  I didn't seem to mind so much on airplanes or restaurants because I felt compassion for the parents.  Many times they did everything they could but the child was extremely upset and could not calm down.  As far as restaurants, maybe someone could come up with an idea like "smoking or no smoking" areas.  Families with children in a certain room and people without children in another area.  I do recall one dinner out with all 4 little ones, when the youngest was just wild beyond control and my husband looked at him and said "you just got yourself a babysitter" meaning you won't be going out to dinner with us for awhile.
Aug 3, 2011 6:16 PM Guest JCJ  says:

It is my opinion that a business owner should have more rights than they do now. If they want to cater to read-heads only they should have that option. There are a few places around here that are adult only, but they serve lots of alcohol and don't want the kids to see it, I guess. So I don't go there. I think that's what lets them allow smoking, so another reason I don't go there.

 

People need a variety of places to go and I support the freedom to make those choices, living in a free country. There is already way too much gov't control over our lives.

 

And no, I don't see it as anything against the children. What I do see as a problem is when a restaurant has only chicken nuggets and hot dogs (or less) offered as kid's meals. I see that as a bias when I'm in a Mexican food place and they offer nothing else. On the other side Chick-fil-A professes a Christian stance closing Sundays and all, brags about some award for their kid's meals and yet they offer nothing but chicken nuggets. How about something good for them if they really care about children. So I'm forced to find someplace else to take the kids.

Aug 3, 2011 6:16 PM Guest Paul  says:
Sorry if I'm repeating anyone, but I can see why people would want this.  The lach of discipline that is obvious in our current times, has resulted in disrespectful noisy, obnoxious children.  I see example after example of parents letting their children "rule the roost".  This not benfiting the children at all.  They just don't have the life experience to know what proper behavior is and need training and that sometimes involves tough dscipline.  Without it, the rude, obnoxious children will undoubtably grow-up to be rude, obnoxious adults that whine and complain and insist on their own way in all matters.  It's a very sad condition we are all facing.
Aug 3, 2011 6:17 PM Guest Tam B  says:

I think part of the problem today is that many people think it is ok, and even fun, to take their children EVERYWHERE and like Erin says, they are allowed to run wild.  If I go to the Spaghetti Factory I expect it to be noisy and loud.  If I go to the movies (not a kid one or cartoon), I expect to be able to enjoy the movie without a million distractions.  People do not discipline their kids and they run amuck, even in the church sanctuary.  If people would keep kids in kid situations and discipline them/set boundaries, these rules wouldn't need to be made.  I don't want to listen to Jr scream and watch him throw his potatoes while I am trying to enjoy a candlelight dinner with my husband. That is not a kid appropriate situation and kids should not be expected to do well, they should expect that mom and dad will leave them at home to play and color with a babysitter.

 

My 21 year old son has wanted a large family for many years.  He did some work with childrens groups this summer, running camps and VBS's.  After 2 months he decided he didn't want ANY kids if that is how kids behave.  He since has realized that not all kids behave that way, and has been able to use it as a learning experience for his future.  He again wants a large family if he and his wife (whoever she may be ;D) are able to work together to discipline and set boundaries.

Aug 3, 2011 6:18 PM Guest Joanna  says:
I am in general agreement with all those above.  I would rather folks go to their kid-free world than to judge me on my kids' bad days.  That being said, I NEVER let a toddler scream for more than 10 seconds before taking them outside to get them reoriented, and though sometimes I let my toddler walk (not run) in main aisles of a restaurant, he is never out of my control.  I too enjoy the occasional kid-free evening, and since our birth rate is actually going up (fewer couples having more kids), I think eliminating these in a free market is, well, not a profitable move.  I think the trend is more about bad parenting than anti-kid sentiments.
Aug 3, 2011 6:18 PM Guest Kim  says:

I am in favor of this idea and think establishments should retain the right to manage their businesses in a way that they feel will be the most appealing to their customers.  If they want to enforce a dress code, I'm all for it.  If they want to ban smoking, I'm all for it.  If they want to play live music, I'm all for it.  If they want to prohibit under-age patrons from sitting in the bar area, I'm all for it.  Personally, I think it's ridiculous for so many people to think that if it inconveniences THEM (i.e. they have to find a babysitter), then something must be done about it.  There are PLENTY of child-friendly establishments where kids are made to feel welcomed so these are the places parents should visit if they can't or won't leave their children at home.

Aug 3, 2011 6:21 PM Guest keith  says:

I think the young child ban from restaurants and theaters is merely a manifestation of the continued growth of secular humanism.  For humanists, "Self" is the center and all other considerations must be ground down or even obliterated if there is a chance they might encroach upon the self-satisfying unreality they prefer to pursue.  This is not an entirely new sentiment.  It's just now climbing high enough up on our culture's 'behavior curve' that it is getting noticed.  Some 20 years ago my family was treated to an honest eruption of humanistic "self-defense" at a restaurant.  We had just been seated by the host/hostess and this middle-aged vangard of modern humanism exclaimed, "Oh great!  Now we're going to have to put up with some screaming kids!"  We were mom, dad, 7-year old, 2-year old and grandma (who was middled-aged at the time).  Grandma, bless her heart, retorted back, "These kids will behave far better than you are!"  I was still stunned over the whole episode, but that seemed to shut them up.  And grandma was right.  Considering the issue of theaters restricting young children from movie screenings, I'm not at all certain that there are any offerings at the movie theaters that are entirely suitable for young children anyway.  So that might turn out to be a good thing (for the wrong reason).

Aug 4, 2011 11:46 AM Guest Paul  says in response to Nick:
Being a parent is tough and sometimes you have to do hard things like leave if you can't control you kid.  It's not about worrying if anyone is "offended" by your child's poor behavior, it's about being a good parent and doing what is right and being considerate of others.  BTW, I do have two children of my own and I did make those tough decisions.  I refused to torment the people ariound me with my child's poor behavior.  Then I dsciplined my children because they made me have to remove them.  They didn't do it often.......
Aug 3, 2011 6:24 PM Guest Ed  says in response to Roger:
Almost all Catholic churches take the position that children belong in the worship service, so they can experience it from the time they are babies.  The unfortunate consequence is that on a Sunday morning, it is hard to find a Catholic church that has a worshipful atmosphere.  Children, wonderful as they are, can be very distracting when one is trying to pray.  Protestant churches almost universally provide childcare, with the consequence that adults can concentrate on the prayers and sermon.  So I think the restaurants are meeting a need.  There will always be restaurants that welcome children ... many of them build their business around it.  Take your family to these restaurants, but choose the other kind for a business meal.
Aug 3, 2011 6:25 PM Guest BC  says:

I am waiting for a comment on a waitress/staff who has had to clean up after a toddler.

Sure "it's their job" but it can also be a time-consuming distraction (lost tips) from other customers. At a Chinese buffet, a server once told us we could share with our toddler without paying extra for him if he didn't make a mess.

Aug 3, 2011 6:26 PM Guest Pastor Jan  says:
I do missionary work in Korea and there is marked difference in the behavior of Korean children in public places as compared to USA. There are on very rare occasions where one child may be having a bad time but it is quickly handled by a relative or another mom close by. Children are considered a valuable community asset and are watched over by all mothers and some fathers of all ages, older sisters are remarkably good at it. Children are by far more socialized at a lower age by adults as compared to USA. I have observed that most American families have become so isolated that the mothers are just to overloaded to do a thorough job of discipline and socializing. And then as soon as possible the kids are shipped off to a preschool that is ill equiped and understaffed to do a proper job either. Big picture is we are seeing the result of destruction of the family system in America. The "No children" policy is just a natural reaction of businesses to control business enviorments, but no the problem.
Aug 3, 2011 8:45 PM Guest Dan C.  says:
I am perfectly okay with private companies setting boundaries as they see fit-I think that is their choice and they can bear the consequences, good or bad, of their decision.    It is interesting that many churches essentially say the very same thing-though it probably is not written policy.  In many local churches, kids are not welcome in worship services-they should be sequestered to their age appropriate designated room so that mom and dad can experience a worship service unencumbered of their children.  If we think this way, how much more will the world think this way?
Aug 3, 2011 6:26 PM Guest Diane  says:

I don't like what is going on, but I don't want to encourage any laws/regulations to prevent this. In America it has been until recently (1960"s)  a business's right to serve whom they wish.  Than regulations started happening.  What happened to if you don't like them you don't support them.  That does more good I think, than regulating them. There are too many regulations now of common sense because someone didn't like what someone else was doing. I think word needs to be spread and those who don't like it don't support it.

Aug 3, 2011 6:26 PM Guest Dianne  says:
I think many parents make no effort to discipline their children either at home or in public, so there will, of course, be behavorial problems. It's very annoying and disrupting to those of us whose children (and grandchildren!) are well mannered and can be taken to public places without embarassment. I try to make a point of complimenting parents with well-behaved children and avoiding those with brats! Let's face it, if you can't control your child at age 6, just think what will happen when that child is 16! Be a PARENT, folks, not a "buddy" to your children. And I have no problem with those policies -- they are probably the result of complaints from other customers. If some don't like the policies, they are free to take their business elsewhere. It's like the no smoking policies in some places -- if you want to smoke, go somewhere else. If enough patrons don't like any policy, the business will eventually either change the policy or go out of business. That's the free market in action!
Aug 3, 2011 6:26 PM Guest Gina  says:

It's funny that I should receive this email today! I just vented last night about going to a restaurant and having a horrible dinner because of unruly kids throughout the restaurant.  First, let me say that I love children. I raised three - all two years apart in age. I have taught school for years. I suppose it's the oblivious parents that irritate me so much. Our dining experience last night consisted of kids screaming, crying, yanking the blinds from the windows, and parents who were totally and completely oblivious! It's as if they entered the restaurant and forgot they had children. It was horrible! Unfortunately, this is becoming the NORM.  I understand that children will have meltdowns at the best we can do. But when it happens, take them to the car, to the restroom, somewhere where the rest of the patrons don't have to hear/see it and deal with it! I think it's very rude to subject those who want to dine out in peace to such chaos. When mine were on the playground they acted like maniacs, but when we went out to eat, they did not. Training children to behave is not EASY, but it is POSSIBLE. I applaud the restaurant owner for listening to the desires of his patrons, and I would certainly give him my business.

Aug 3, 2011 6:27 PM Guest Kirby  says:
I believe any business owner has the right to restrict his/her customer base.  That is what freedom is all about.  People with young children ought to be able to go out to child-friendly places and have a great time with the children.  People also ought to be able to go out for an evening to a place where they know there will be no screaming or ill-behaved children present.  Good business owners who do/don't allow children will see what the market bears and will adjust their restrictions accordingly.  I know when I go out for an expensive dinner with my husband, I don't want to be subjected to a dinner interrupted by a screaming child.  By the same token, I love to take my grandchildren out to a place like Chucky-Cheese's or a pizza joint and have a great family evening.
Aug 3, 2011 6:27 PM Guest JB  says:
I agree with all the other comments above.  Children do need to learn how to behave in public and how can they do so, if they aren't allowed in anywhere?  I think the biggest problem today though isn't the children, it is the parents!  I love kids and have two teenagers now, but I often wonder if I am myself becoming more impatient with younger children.  What I have come to realize that I still love little ones -- those that are well-behaved or being taught to be well-behaved by the parents.  I am a lot more apt to smile compassionately to a mom working with her 2 year old who is behaving badly than I am to a mom in the same circumstance who is busy chatting on her cell phone, talking to a friend, or just generally ignoring the behavior.   I am certainly not talking about a 6 month old crying - that can't be helped and I do feel deeply compassionate for those parents.  I think most people have a tolerance for babies.  But older children (toddlers) can and should be disciplined.   We are doing them a dis-service not to teach them and to expect so little from them.  What I think is driving this "trend" and what makes me frustrated is the parents that refuse to parent because it is inconvenient, or because they want their children to "like" them so they fail in their reponsibilities to teach good behavior.  I see this with a lot of toddlers and older.  And for the record, it is inconvenient to parent - as I am sure many people on this blog will attest to.  There are many times when ours were young when we had to stop our meal and go outside of a restaurant to discipline a child.  We were just talking with our 14 year old son the other day about a time at Ruby Tuesdays when my husband took him outside no less than 5 times during the meal to "discuss" his behavior.  I think he was throwing stuff on the floor and yelling.  It was a pain and not enjoyable for my husband or me to get up from the table to keep taking him out and bringing him back.  I definitely don't remember that meal being enjoyable BUT I do remember that he learned proper behavior in a public restuarant.  We had a good laugh about it the other day - our son remembered it - he was probably 2-3 years old at the time.  He was a challenge and could have been one of those kids that pulls on the back of airline seats, kicks the back of seats at the movies, and throws tantrums on the floor - but we just didn't allow it.  It was inconvenient to leave play groups and movies and restuarants early - but that is what it took for him to learn how to behave.  What many parents don't realize is that it is a very short time that you go through that stage and then the child learns.  The problems generally get bigger as they get older and if you haven't taught a child discipline and self-control when they are young, it only gets tougher. My 14 year old is turning out to be a respectful, wonderful young man and I am glad we invested that time, even though it was inconvenient sometimes.  I am certainly not the best parent in the world, but I think this is just common sense.  Our parents did it with us.  I believe that the lack of parenting has caused a rise in these bad behaviors and these are leading to the "No children allowed" trend.  Places can't discriminate by allowing "well-behaved" children versus "ill-behaved" ones so they just are banning all!  
Aug 3, 2011 6:28 PM Guest Amy  says:

Being the parent of two very rambuntious boys, ages 4 and 6, one of them being on the autism spectrum and the other just 100% boy, I actually find it preferrable to me to not go to "sit down" resturants where they will be the children that they are.  They do not behave badly.  They are just extremely active boys.  What I do have a problem with is the resturants that have a desgnated seating/play area for children and there are adults there who are intolerant of children behaving like children.

 

Children are a gift from God . Anyone who wants to enter the kingdom must come to Jesus like a little child.  Besides children, mine especially,are pretty funny kids.

 

God Bless

Aug 3, 2011 6:29 PM Guest Pam  says in response to Erin:
I also see both sides. I do apreciate it when we can go out in peace, but if it really is a growing trend, that is a problem. It does seem like there is a general growing belief that children are a burden, rather than a blessing. With abortions, and many couples choosing to be childless, it may well be that it is a lack of understanding a child's worth. Don't get me wrong, if people don't want kids, that is fie, but our culture as a whole seems to be changing from a human being having worth, just because he/she is human, to a human being only having worth when they are between certain ages, and can contribute to society in ways that our culture sees as profitable.
Aug 4, 2011 6:23 AM Guest Laura F.  says:

I believe there are some restaurants where children shouldn't go if they don't behave.  Years ago when our first child was 1 1/2 years we wanted to go to a fine restaurant where usually people celebrate big things and we wanted to celebrate my husband's new job.  We knew this wasn't a real kid-friendly place, but our first child was very good usually when we went out, so we called the restaurant and explained our situation.  They said it was fine to bring her.  They even accommodated her with special foods.  It was a multi-course dinner, so it took two hours to eat.  We would take turns sometimes to take her outside for a quick walk.  When we were done, many patrons came up to us and said how worried they were when we first came in because they didn't want a screaming kid to spoil their celebration.  But commented on how good she did.  Now, I never would have thought of taking my 2nd and 3rd children to a restaurant like that because they were the opposite.

 

As far as a movie or performance, young children should not go unless they are able to sit quietly and enjoy the show with you.  when I have gone to the theater to see a ballet, I have been very upset when people bring kids under 4 years old that can't sit still and the seats cost over $25 each.  It's not fair to others.

 

As for select shopping hours, that's just ridiculous.  You can't always plan for specific hours.  If there's a problem and your kid is throwing a fit, by all means take them home and try again later.  It's so unnerving to see whole large families out shopping together taking up the whole aisle and kids grabbing things and eating them.  Leave a parent at home watching the kids so the other parent can peacefully shop and choose wisely.  It actually may save you money in the long run without all the kids grabbing for stuff they want, but don't need.

Aug 3, 2011 6:31 PM Guest Laurie  says:

Well, I'm going to disagree with the other commenters.  I think it's a sad statement on our values when we ban children from othewise perfectly appropriate activities like grocery shopping or eating just because they are children and may act like children.  Believe me--there are times when I'd like to throw a fit, but I don't because I'm an adult and I've learned to control my behavior.  Children are still learning how to do this.  And there may be extenuating circumstances you don't know about.  I am a military wife of a special needs child.  There were times when I may have liked to go to the grocery store without risking a screaming child--but that would have meant not having food for my family.  And honestly, the worst part about it wasn't the screaming child (I knew why she was crying and I had compassion toward her)--it was the looks and comments I got from the other adults who didn't even bother to understand.

 

Excluding children to protect them from being exposed to inappropriate content is good. (I get so frusterated when I see parents walking into a rated R movie with their children.)  Wanting a date night with your spouse to keep your marriage vibrant is just fine.  If you don't want to be around children--look for a place that is not appropriate for them.  And remember--if a child is screaming his/her head off in a movie or at a restaurant  and the parent is doing nothing about it (either comforting them or disciplining them)--that's a parent issue, not a child issue.

 

Here's this same concept but with a twist--I don't enjoy swearing.  Can I go to Whole Foods during no-foul-language hours?  Or how about going to the mall during no-scantily-clad-teenager hours?  Can I go to the store during no-one-smoking-right-outside-the-front-door hours?  Of course not!  Instead I have to deal with these things I'd rather not be around, and I have to use them as a teaching opportunity with my children and an exercise in compassion for myself (maybe the teenage girl who is dressed like a prostitute, smoking, and swearing like a sailor has terrible role models and has never experienced the love of Christ) .  So here's an idea...when we see a child behaving like a child we should view it as an opportunity to exercise compassion.  Or here's a bigger idea--maybe you should try being the hands and feet of Christ and say, "Can I buy you a cup of coffee and let you sit down for a while and comfort your child while I gather the things on your grocery list for you?"

Aug 4, 2011 6:32 AM Guest Janet A.  says:
Maybe we should have a "child free" service at church!  I have sat through services when parents allowed their little ones to be disruptive throughout the service [nursery and baby room were both available]!   I see it as a sign of the times, an over-nurturing attitude which disallows for discipline of any kind, and fails to teach children to respect others.  And yes, I've been on an airplane with a crying baby, so I know that's a difficult situation.
Aug 3, 2011 6:33 PM Guest Janet G.  says in response to Susan:
If children were well behaved they wouldn't HAVE to make child-free places.  I don't know when it happened that children have more right to yell and scream and bang things than the people around them have for peace and quiet.  There are parents today that allow their children to be downright rude in public places that should be pleasant for everyone.  It is to the point that we don't even like to go out and eat because of the noise level and chaos.   It really isn't fair to ban all children because there ARE parents who train their kids to behave in public, but I can see why and how it is going to end up coming to that everywhere...
Aug 3, 2011 6:34 PM Guest Denise  says:
Thanks, Monique T., for the clarification about the Whole Foods store in Missouri. I checked, and you're correct. I really had a hard time believing that Whole Foods would ban children from their stores at certain hours of the day. I am, however, outraged that any airline woud ban babies from their first-class cabins. I would not fly any airline that implemented this policy.
Aug 3, 2011 6:34 PM Guest Jeaneen  says:

I think our society is becoming less tolerant, but in many ways they have themselves to thank for this.  I must admit, as my children are a little older, I have found myself less tolerant of children crying and throwing tantrums.  Yes, I remember on more than one occassion carrying or dragging a screaming child to remove him/her from the situation.  That is just it though, I was actually concerned and tried to remove my child.  It seems many parents today are content with letting their child misbehave. Society, for many years said spanking was "wrong," this has left many parents confused as to how to handle some discipline problems.  Parents were afraid to discipline in public for fear of retaliation.  I recently watched a young mother of an 18 mos-2 year old try to discretely chase her child around the sanctuary of our church during the service.  The mother was absolutely powerless.  It was rather frightening situation to observe, when you realize this is only the begining.  If the trend of disruptive children continues, I must admit I might actually be attending one of those movies.

Thanks for all that you do @ Focus on the Family

Aug 3, 2011 6:35 PM Guest Eileen  says:
I think our freedoms have been greatly eroded in our culture.  If someone owns a business shouldn't they have the right to run it the way they want?  If I don't approve, I don't enter.  I don't approve of bars so I don't go in.  I don't approve of Home Depot so I don't go in.  They can do what they want with their business but I don't have to give them my money.
Aug 3, 2011 6:35 PM Guest Bev  says in response to Erin:
I agree with Erin 100%...I've been in similar situations where the children are running wild and the parents sit there not knowing what to do. I don't understand why the parents don't take their child outside for some "straightening up".  Parents need to be parents, the child is not in control...the parents need to be.  Parents need to parent by the Book, the Bible, and not to fill their mind with foolish humanistic teaching that is in our culture.
Aug 3, 2011 6:35 PM Guest Sharon  says:
My husband and I have a 4yr old, 13yr old and 16yr old.  Twice in the last two months we have tried to go out on a date at a trendy bistro on the ocean that caters to a singles crowd and both times, we were seated next to the only children in the entire restaurant.  The atmosphere was totally inappropriate for children and ruined our "quiet" evening together.  I expect children at Denny's and Red Robin...but toddlers and crying babies have no place in a fine restaurant or trendy bar/bistro.  I think it's selfish of the parents to bring them and either 1) expect the child to behave in a place not suitable for adults or 2) expect everyone else to tolerate their banging, crying, bumping your chair, etc.  If crayons aren't available with a menu, you probably should have left the kids at home.
Aug 3, 2011 6:35 PM Guest Donna  says:
My husband and I have two teenagers.  We've enjoyed many meals out with our children over the years.  Some of them were peaceful and some were not.  Children don't follow a script, haven't learned yet to control their emotions and can't be expected to always be perfectly behaved, especially when they're toddlers.  There are places where that is acceptable and places where it's not.  Even when we had young children, there were anniversaries and other special occasions where we paid for a babysitter to have some time away from the children.  If there had of been restaurants that didn't allow children we would have gone to them.  We love children but there are just times when we want to be in an adult, more sophisticated environment.  Those are the times that renew us to go back and be able to more enjoy the kids.  I don't think too much should be read in to this trend.  There are lots of bed and breakfasts that don't allow children and nobody has ever complained about that.  There will always be plenty of places for people to go with their children.  There is just too much money in family friendly places for them to go away.
Aug 3, 2011 6:35 PM Guest Jill R.  says:

Yes, children are a blessing. However, that is not the point here.  The point is that we live in a free society and a private business owner should have the right to choose who he/she would like to serve.  An individual that does not agree or approve of a business owner's choice in this regard then has the right to choose whether or not he/she would like to go to the privately-owned establishment.  If the business suffers due to the choices the owner makes then the business will either go out of business or the business owner will change his/her business practices.  Neither the government nor we as individuals should have the right to tell private business owners how they should run their businesses.

Aug 3, 2011 6:36 PM Guest Ally  says:
I'm not a fan of these "child-free" places. They happen to be great places to practice the mastery of manners with our children. However, I do think these days, it is just more evidence that parents are not parenting well. Children it seems these days lack guidance and parental discipline. I do believe this is what restaurants and grocery stores are responding to. Too many parents buy into the notion that children should experience a constant state of happiness and therefore punishing goes by the way-side. Too many parents sit back and allow their children to behave as little monsters and don't use the moment to teach appropriate behavior. My husband and I have actually removed one of our children from enjoying his favorite restaurant when he decided more than once to become rambunctious and distracting. I immediately took him to the car while the rest of the family enjoyed their dinner. You can bet the next time we went to that restaurant, he only needed to be reminded once and he proved to us with his exceptional behavior that a lesson had been learned.
Aug 4, 2011 6:46 AM Guest Adele P.  says:

Mr. Daly,

 

I am in favor of these types of things, but not because of the children themselves. Rather, it is the lack of responsibility on behalf of the parents that choose-yes, it IS a choice they are making-NOT to discipline their children. It doesn't really matter what the reason is, it is unfair to the child, and has circled all the way around to a society that is so sick of poor behavior, screaming, foul language (yes, even small ones), and such that we now have to enforce even further regulation on life because of it. The Word clearly states that we are disobedient in not disciplining and providing structure, balance, and I would add morals, values, and principles to the child's life. Is it any wonder that they are the way that they are? They can be so obnoxious. There are several couples at my Church who, decided to wait until a little ater on to have children, one of the pair has already raised several-and te behavior of their child is completely unruly....and NOTHING is done about it. NOTHING. Running through Church, talking out loud, not sitting still slamming doors....all while the Word is being preached.....and the mother just shakes her head. No one there says anything to them about it either, and they are not the only family with this situation. I am seeking the Lord in prayer about this and what to do. It is not the child's fault....it all falls back to the parents. Let me say something to the parents....if you were treated wrongly by your parents, and you're angry, undisciplined, etc., take the action to change yourself and the life of your child. Give up the right to see someone else punished for the wrongs you have endured, and lay them at the Cross. You cannot walk through life blaming others for your behavior and how your life is, but the Word gives you tools and FOF provides tools. There are no excuses. Stop the problem at your house, on your door step, and stop pointing the finger of blame and ridicule at everyone else. There should not be any wonder at all why our society is the way it is. Stand up, be a man or woman of God, take Jesus as your Lord and savior, and move forward in a positive manner.

Aug 3, 2011 6:36 PM Guest Jane  says:
I disagree with banning children from restaurants, theaters, etc.  That being said, I also believe parents should use discretion when deciding to take children with them to these places.  If the child cannot be controlled, they should not go.  My children did not go to every event or occasion and if they could not be left at home, my husband and I did not go.  Children are a special gift and do not stay small forever.  Parents should enjoy them while they can.  Time passes too quickly to be selfish.
Aug 3, 2011 6:37 PM Guest Deanna  says:

It seems there is a trend here. Believe it or not, I feel this may be a symptom of the breakdown of the family in our society. People may be losing their tolerance for noisy children because it is happening more and more. I have had conversations with folks from previous generations, who have consistently said that children used to be more polite years ago. Can it be, as our families have fallen apart around us, that more and more parents are so overwhelmed with parenting by themselves that children are acting out more? Parents are overwhelmed, and as a result their children are not supported and secure, and act out. The parents get more frustrated, and many just give up. They feel they can't handle their children alone without help. Often, too, parents feel guilt over the breakup of the family, and they shower their children with gifts and privileges. I have known people who actually felt guilty if they had to reprimand their kids, and would avoid it at all costs ("they have been through so much; how can I be hard on them?"). Their kids were terrors...

Aug 3, 2011 6:37 PM Guest A H  says in response to Erin:
I personally am saddened to read this. It's bad enough that when I go out with my 3 children I get comments that we have so many children.. but for a store to ban us from eating there, that is too much.  With abortions, birth control being a right, morning after pills, and couples choosing to have no children or waiting until they are older and "need" fertility treatments... children being sent to their own church during the entire service.. our society is telling us that children are an inconvience and not important.. and requiring children to be independent at age 3 .. We are in a sad state. Just look at the Japanese culture. They are paying couples to have children since there is negative population growth there. That is where we are headed. The world tells us children are a problem.. but God tells us to learn from them and to welcome them....not to hide them and only have them if it works out in your timing. God help us.
Aug 4, 2011 7:02 AM Guest Steven D.  says:

Well, let's assume for a moment that these businesses are in the wrong. What do you do to stop it? Legislate them to require admittance to children? That is an extremely dangerous precedent to set.

 

It is for that reason that, right or wrong, I support the businesses that choose to do this. Consumers already have power over businesses and vote with their dollars. So, in my opinion, the issue is not with the business, but rather the culture as businesses merely reflect the values of a culture.

 

Now, philosphy aside, I actually like that some businesses are doing this. It is not that I dislike children or think that they are not valuable, quite to the contrary. However, that said, it would be nice every so often to go somewhere where I don't have to see a three year old screaming at his mother with language that I, as an ex-sailor, am impressed by (but not in a good way).

Aug 4, 2011 7:04 AM Guest Annette  says:

I love children, especially babies!   But, as we wish for others to show respect to our faith (regardless of whether they do or not) I believe that we should show others respect other's business choices as well.  There are times to stand strong and fight, to fight for our faith, but this is not one of those situations or times.  When we start dictating to businesses on something like this... we may be actually presenting the behavior that we are taught against in the Word of God.   Additionally, there are so many different parenting skills and ideals and some people are not considerate of others concerning their children and restaurants just do not want to be put in a postiion to deal with this and offend customers.

 

Sometimes, parents who go out and just want a peaceful night at dinner because they have small children at home should also be able to do so.

 

May God bless and lead us for His glory!

Aug 3, 2011 6:39 PM Guest Millette  says:

My husband and I have three children whom we have taken everywhere with us even travelling on a plane once a year. We have always been complemented how well our children behaved. And this is because we have strived to "bring our children up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord". I really would hate to be inhibited to travel or go to a restaurant without our children.

 

However, I can understand the reason for such policy. Last year, my family and I travelled to Chicago and towards the last hour of our flight, a 5 or 6 year old boy had a tantrum and whined, cried, yelled and had a meltdown in the enclosed plane. We looked back two rows behind us to find out what was being done to control the child and the parents were ignoring the behavior, maybe, thinking that their child would eventually get tired and stop the tantrum. The flight attendants did nothing to control the situation. In the meantime, passengers like us were totally bothered and disturbed by the child's behavior. Thirty minutes into the meltdown, another little boy came down the aisle and asked the boy who was having a tantrum, "Why are you crying?". The whining, crying and yelling stopped at that point.

 

I think, this policy is an evolutionary  result to the promotion of "spanking is not good for the children" which came about a decade or two ago. Parents are so afraid to discipline their children or have a very distorted thinking about child discipline.

Aug 3, 2011 6:39 PM Guest MacKenzie  says:
My husband and I have 4 beautiful children whom we adore.  We are actively involved in the youth ministry at our church and most days at our house are filled with our childrens friends.  That being said, I can appreicate a "child free zone" when we decide to go out on a date.  With 4 kids and only one income( I stay home to raise our kids) date nights are a rare occasion.  As an example we saved for a few months to go on a date for our anniversary to our favorite(but expensive) sushi restaraunt.  We were so anxious for some time away.  To our surprise we were surrounded by tables with very loud kids and parents who seemed to have cared less that their children were yelling, running and throwing silverware and food. It was not a fun time. Had we been in McDonalds, I wouldn't have cared so much.  But a nice restaurant with an expensive menu... well, we were paying for the ambiance as well as the food.   What made it even worse was the movie we saw later that night (that we paid $9 PER PERSON to see), was continually interupted by EXTREMELY ABNOXIOUS teenage kids.  I wondered "where are the parents?"  Maybe if parents taught their children proper manners and to think of others around them,  then maybe so many people wouldn't be fed up with kids. We've all seen it, kids running and screaming through a restaraunt and parents who continue to ignore their bad behavior regardless of the looks of those around them trying to enjoy their dinner.  A good thing to remember for parents...not everybody thinks your little angels screaming voice is cute.  Parents need to teach their children "it's not always about you.. sometimes it's about others"  It's a good lesson to start when they are young.
Aug 3, 2011 6:39 PM Guest Janie  says:
I love the idea of having certain hours available at various places when you know that it will be child free.  Children are a blessing, and they should be cherished.  However, there are certainly times that my husband and I would take advantage of such child free times.  Especially if you are getting away for the night and leaving your own crying children with a sitter, the last thing you want to endure is someone else's crying children while your out for the night.  And I think this has become more necessary as children have become more and more out of hand over the years.  Many children do not get the discipline they should.
Aug 4, 2011 7:24 AM Guest F L H  says:

I am a Great Grandmother and see no probllem with no children allowed at some places. Most children today are NOT well behaved and and the parents just let them scream, run wild or just be a nusance to everyone in a restaruant. I say about time!!!!!

Bye the way, when my children were small,back in the sixties, they were NOT allowed in military commissarys.

Aug 3, 2011 6:40 PM Guest Julie  says:
I will preface this by saying that my husband and I do not have children, but we do really like children.  I think this is a symptom of a serious parenting problem.  I know so many wonderful parents who properly discipline their children and you can tell the ones like that in public when their child has a meltdown and they are obviously embarassed about it and remove the child from the area (if they can).  The problem is the increasing plethora of permissive parents who have no concept of discipline and do not seem to get it when people get upset that their kids are running all over the place screaming, etc.  I have even seen some of them get angry at people who are obviously frustrated with the unchecked behavior and will get in their faces for daring to question or protest (like having your seat kicked for hours on a flight and you finally have had enough and turn around and glare at them?).  People are definitely more careful with their money these days and if you get to go out to a nice restaurant for a rare treat, there is nothing like having an out-of-control screaming child to ruin the whole experience (like many have stated about the date nights, etc.).  I truly commend the above comments from parents (the good ones!  God bless you all!) who really get this, as they all seem to relate to it so well.  A business owner should have the freedom in this country to set the rules, but it is sad that kids are being punished for their parents lack of discipline
Aug 3, 2011 6:40 PM Guest Susan  says:

I find that most adults don't have trouble with children who have the occasional meltdown in a restaurant.  Life happens.  People have trouble with the parents who do little to train/teach their children how to behave in public places and let them run all over the place.

Aug 3, 2011 6:40 PM Guest Carmen  says:

It's a businiess' choice in how to run their business, and while I agree that children are a blessing, and am thrilled to me a mother of 2 and one on the way, I can completely empathize with the businiesses making these rules.

 

Not only are children unpredictable, sometimes adults (particularly those who choose to not have children), want to be away from the sounds of kids having a meltdown, or just plain being loud. Add to that the maddening epidemic of parents who simply don't discipline their children, or else have very lax rules about what is or is not appropriate in a public setting. Those parents (through their lack of response to their children) even irritate me! How much more so would people that don't want to be around children avoid places where those people frequent?

Aug 3, 2011 6:41 PM Guest S.J.  says:

I think you article is slanted and does not present the facts as another reader posted a comment regarding the Whole Foods "child free shopping time".  I am mother with two lovely very well behaved children but I know that even I have difficulty getting my shopping and errands run when my children are with me all the time.  I get distracted and I tend to forget what I supposed to be doing.  I do not think this a trend towards "intolerance of children", IN FACT I think it is a wake up call to all the VERY SLACK parenting that is going on nowdays.  I see families with NO RULES OR REGARD all the time letting their children run around and do "what they want when they want"!!!!  I have seen small children at PG-13 movies, I have seen children at smoke filled bars and restuarants around inapporpriate language, adult behaviour, and adult shows on.  I have seen parents let their 9 and 10 year old kids read inappropriate books and watch adult tv programs.  I think this type of MESSAGE from the baby boomer generation is a direct CALL OUT on the type of riduculous parenting that is going on in this day and age.  Children are children and need to grow up slowly and take their time.  They should rules, bedtimes, and their should a time and place for what they can and can not do.  I was recently on a cruise and I put my girls to bed a 10 pm (which is late but it was a vacation treat).  Then a family member watched the girls for us so my husband and I could go relax in the cruise hot tub.  Well when we got there at 10:30 pm the hot tub was full of little kids!!!!  that is just ridiculous and completely out of control.  Now little kids have cell phones, iPads, laptops, etc....there is just no parental control anymore!!!!

Kids don't even need to wait till they are grown up anymore to experience anything...they can have it all when they are kids "served on a silver platter"!!!!!  Sorry but this time I DO NOT agree with you JIM.  I think the baby boomer generation is trying to tell us to watch out or we are going to have a really messed up generation of spoiled dysfunctional kids that expect it all and don't follow rules!

Aug 3, 2011 6:41 PM Guest CeeJay  says:

I would be in favor of "adult only" options at theaters, restaurants, etc.  With that said ... frankly, it's sad that our culture has gotten to this point ... but, it is PARENTS who are to blame.  At the risk of sounding like an cranky old man (I'm not quite 60 years of age), it is offensive and more than irritating when my wife and I and/or friends/family go out to dinner or go to a movie and have the evening ruined by parents who refuse (even when confronted) to control their kids enough to keep them from disrupting everyone around them.

 

I don't blame the kids.  We had four (all grown & married).  When they were kids ... they acted up in public too.  But, we didn't tolerate it escalating to the point of disrupting/irritating people around us.  Often, we left the restaurant - took the food home to eat; took the kid out to the car, etc.  I'm not trying to make our family (or our generation) sound better than anyone elses ... but, generally speaking, there was a common courtesy practiced by most.  Concern for those around you that said:  "hey, this isn't fair to others around us ... we should give up our desire to have a peaceful meal out or enjoy a movie."

 

So, what's wrong with labeling certain showings of a movie as "no children allowed" or "adults only?"  What's wrong with setting aside certain sections of a restaurant for "adults only" ... or, better yet, the restaurant manager asking the customer with disruptive kids to leave or take control of their kids out of courtesy to others.

Aug 3, 2011 6:41 PM Guest shelly  says:
I believe these people forget that they were once "children".  It's sad that our society is coming to this, but it only goes with the gay marriage trend because if they keep this up there will be NO children.   I pray people start opening their eyes and ears and that we continue to share the good news.
Aug 3, 2011 6:42 PM Guest Carolyn  says:
I think this trend stinks! Children a gift from God and should be highly valued. I don't like the Gov. or other agencies dictating whether or not children are allowed. It leads to other censures as well. Our society and Gov. is taking ALL our freedoms aways while we sit by calmly and LET THEM!!
Aug 3, 2011 6:42 PM Guest JohnH  says:

First businesses did not allow Black's (negros), now children are not allowed.  Seems to be the same situation, just a different population. I think it is UNLAWFUL.  Sounds like a violation of the 14th ammendment of the U.S. Constitution.

 

All persons born or naturalized in the Untied States and subject to the juristiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and oif the State wherein they reside. No State shall abridge the privileges or imunities of citizens of the United Stantes; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its juristiction the equal protection of the laws.

 

Unfortunately someone willhave to be denied service and then will have to file suit to get any remedy.

Aug 3, 2011 6:42 PM Guest Loretta  says:

I have always enjoyed being with my own kids more than anything else, enjoying experiences with them.  But I doubt everyone is comfortable with kids around, especially when they haven't been taught to behave in public.  It could be due to parents not knowing how to control their kids in public and annoying people, but it could be just the pendulum of society swinging back to the days when children weren't taken everywhere and weren't included in everything the adults did.

Aug 3, 2011 6:43 PM Guest Robert M  says:

I think the trend isn't about people not liking childern but about the fact that many parents are not controlling there Childern.  I was at a movie a few months ago and a Women brough her child into the movie and it started crying.  Not the 1st time I have seen that.  What I have never seen before is the Mother just sat there.  15 Min later an Usher had to come in and ask her to leave.  She made a scean like she had a right to be there and let her Child cry for 15 Mins.  It isn't an intorlance for Childern but more an intorlance for bad Partents who aren't controlling there childern.

 

Thanks

Robert

Aug 3, 2011 6:43 PM Guest jonna  says:
You know what?  Sometimes I feel like having a melt down myself when I'm out in public!  Because I'm an adult though, I know better!  That's where the parent needs to be on guard when they have their child in public to be able to correct them in a soft manner.  Children need to learn how to behave in public.  There are times and places when children should be welcome anywhere, and there are times and places where children should not go and the parents should be able to distinquish those times and places.  I happen to agree with the "man in the pit", listen to that baby, they won't be babies for long!  I don't mind sharing a restaurant with children:)
Aug 3, 2011 6:43 PM Guest LisaH  says:

I fully believe that children are blessings from the Lord. Regarding this new 'trend', I believe it could be an 'answer' to a business delimma. Recently, my husband ate breakfast in a quiet restaurant, in a town of about 4-500 people. A woman with her three children were there to eat breakfast as well - only, in this case, all the children (6 and under) were terribly misbehaving - screaming, yelling, throwing food, etc. Obviously, the woman had zero control. Customers began moving to a section of the restaurant further away from the 'lone lady with her children'. After about 15min, my husband was the only person in the area with the Mom and kids. There is such a thing as being curteous to others when parents are out with their young children. If a child, no matter the age, is misbehaving, a quick correction or removal from the situation is appropriate. However, when the parent never gets the hint that others are being inconvenienced and made miserable, what is a restaurant or it's patrons to do?  Setting "child free" hours may be their solution.  It doesn't sound very nice to do, I would probably have found it offending when my four children were young, but, could I have 'blamed' the business?

 

If we want to see a change in these kinds of policies, then a little parental etiquette can go a long way!  When shopping for groceries, alone with three children ages 2.5 and under, I would leave the grocery store before subjecting other customers/employees to a temper tantrum or a screaming child. When eating in a restaurant, I would take my child/children to the restroom or to our vehicle to administer discipline appropriate to the offense - and if it still did not work, I would take my children home.  Was it fun? No...but it was necessary for the benefit of everyone.

Aug 3, 2011 6:44 PM Guest Penny  says:

It's shameful and an obvious result/example of adults increasingly becoming more selfish.

We don't want anyone or anything to "put us out".   That's completely opposite to the true Christian way.  I personally don't see how this isn't an example of age discrimination.  You wouldn't be able to do the same to the elderly or a particular race. 

On the other hand, parents need to understand that they need to be more responsible when taking their children out in public.  They (the parents) should always use such a venture as a teaching opportunity on how to act in an appropiate way in public.  Many young parents seem to think that they can allow their children to do whatever pleases them.

Aug 3, 2011 6:45 PM Guest AlexG  says:
I believe business should be free to limit access to their establishment to adults only.  Too many parents in today's world don't discipline their children properly (and many not at all). By the way, I have a 3 year old.
Aug 4, 2011 7:56 AM Guest Deb F.  says:

It seems that my sentiment echoes most that I have read here.  I don't think child free dining hours or child free restaurants are in and of themselves a bad idea.  When I go to a family restaurant, I expect to see children and have learned to tolerate the screaming and the running and the general chaos they cause because of lack of disciplining by the parents.  HOwever, on the rare occasions when my husband and I can afford to go to a nice dinner, I think it would be great to limit kids.  KID FREE movies--  same thing,  If it's a family movie I expect kids (with parents--not by themselves), but for the late showing or a more adult movie, no crying babies would be wonderful.  Churches provide "cry rooms" for parents with kids--maybe the movies should try something like that.

NO KID shopping hours would be great.  Unfortunately, that is very hard to do with single parent households parents have limited resources to pay for a sitter and with two income families, the time for shopping is limited.  I just stay out of Walmart Friday night and Saturday.  Try to go during the week when school is in session.

Aug 4, 2011 8:02 AM Guest Francine  says:

I think the bigger problem is not so much the kids, but the parents who do not correct them. If I am out to dinner, or at the show, I do not think it is fair that I have to endure a loud talking child, crying, or peek a boo games at a fancy restautant. When my son was a toddler, my childless friends would invite me to a restaurant, and I'd spend the time quieting him, or reprimanding him to stay in his chair. It was no fun for me, nor fair to the other patrons. I chose to not go out with him until he was "civilized" enough to sit still politely in a restaurant....you know, when he was about 12! :-)

 

It's not the kid's fault, it's the parents who neglect their duties. Our culture says that the world revolves around children, yes they are a fantastic blessing, a wonderful gift from God, but there is a responsibiity that comes with having them, and today's society says "it's not my fault". I wish there was a childrens seating section in a plane, how often I have has my seat kicked the entire flight, parent unawares. Or an adorable & friendly baby playing over the seat, cute, but not for the entire flight! And of course, babies cry, that's natural. If the parents are not experineced travelers, if they have exhausted their distractions while sitting on the tarmac waiting to take off, then you can end up with a crying baby for hours. I sound pretty cranky about kids, but when I was one, my mom "trained" me on how to act in public & that there were expectations.

 

It's really not too different from dog owners who let their dogs out & then leave them barking in the yard for hours on end because "he has a right to be outside"! Yes, & I have a right to enjoyment ouside too! Whew, I did go on a rant, but you asked!

Aug 3, 2011 6:46 PM Guest Janice  says:

I have been in many venues where people brought crying babies, making it impossible to hear the play being produced, the orchestra playing, or to enjoy a meal.  Therefore, I I I don't mind that there may be certain places that are for adults only.  That decision should be up to the restaurant or the privately-owned theater.  All venues that are appropriate for adults are not appropriate or enjoyable for children.  I strongly agree that people should be free to go to some places where they can be sure that no crying babies or misbehaving children will be around.  I can't help believing that there will continue to be many, many opportunities for parents to take their children out in public.

Kris C. was right on about the potential court cases.

Aug 4, 2011 8:05 AM Guest Rosie M.  says:

While, I have three children and love them dearly, when they were young there were certain things as parents that you have to give up. If you want to take your kids out to eat, there's Chuck E Cheese for that. There were many times I removed my child from a restaurant or gathering because they were disturbing others, and that was not something I took pleasure in! The problem today I believe that most families have NO GOD in their lives and really are too selfish to even consider that their child might be disturbing someone else.

 

Two weeks ago I went out to eat at Olive Garden with my 22 year old daughter. They sat us at a table with two children at the next table with several adults. Within minutes the youngest (about 3-4 years old, I'm guessing) was rolling around on the floor right next to our table, just playing around while the parents ignored him. Eventually the father came to retrieve him - but not after our conversation was interrupted by an annoying child! Another incident in a crowded restaurant, two couples sat and chatted while their (approximately) 14 month old screamed to high heavens in the high chair. I finally leaned over and caught one man's attention and said 'HELLLOWWW???" and nodded over towards the child. That man gave me the dirtiest look! The manager came over and apologized to us and several other tables for the rude couple with the screaming child.

 

Personally, I think restaurants are tired of hearing people complain - and I DON'T BLAME RESTAURANTS ONE BIT!  I would DEFINITELY FREQUENT A RESTAURANT WITH ADULT ONLY TIMES! Unfortunately, its the bad parenting in our society that causes it!

Aug 3, 2011 6:46 PM Guest Michelle  says:

I think that if businesses want to implement age limits for certain business hours, that's fine.   I do worry when airlines want to follow suit though, restricting where a child can sit.  Public transportation and public services should not be able to set this kind of restriction.  Some may argue that commercial airlines are private businesses, but they really aren't.  They are regulated by the government, just like Amtrak and other forms of public transit.

 

Businesses that think they can survive completely without parent business may find themselves out of business very quickly.

Aug 3, 2011 6:47 PM Guest Deb  says:

My husband & I eat out frequently.  If we go to a family restaurant early in the evening, then we must expect that children will be there.  But if we go late - 7:00 p.m. - we have the expectation that children won't be eating that late.  If they are, maybe that's why they're so cranky!  Also, if we go to an expensive restaurant, part of what you're paying for is atmosphere & that's totally ruined by screaming children.

 

We had a special needs child that couldn't sit still long enough to eat out, so we didn't.  Parents shouldn't be putting children in a situation where they know they will likely get out of control.

 

I don't think this restaurant owner did this unless he'd had a considerable number of complaints.  Maybe he was faced with a lot of patrons threatening not to return.

 

I would be in favor of restaurants specifying that after a certain hour, dining would be child-free.

Aug 3, 2011 6:47 PM Guest Jen B  says:
I'm torn on this for a few reasons.  My husband and I only get out together maybe once every 3 months and it's always nice to be somewhere where there aren't children... but we go to some restaurants that aren't really family friendly... no kids menu, not really suitable for kids, etc. so we know that if we wouldn't ever imagine taking our kids there, most people won't.  I would not be offended if restaurants like that banned children since the restaurants I'm referencing are for adults wanting to enjoy a romantic evening.  Now if Red Robins, Chili's, and other family-friendly restaurants went that route, it'd be a different story as it would leave very few options, other than fast-food, available for family dining.  There are advantages to taking children to restaurants. Children need to be trained on how to behave in restaurants. Both my children are on the spectrum so they are more prone to tantrums. I have taken my 3 year old to restaurants at off-peak times to "train" her in good manners and how to behave.  If we train our children that helps them know how they are expected to behave.  On the other hand, with 1 in 110 kids being on the spectrum, people need to understand that children who look completely normal sometimes have some challenges you cannot see and there needs to be some grace extended.  Children with sensory issues or autism are often overstimulated by crowds, noise, lights, even patterns on wall paper. They need to be taught coping skills which cannot happen without being exposed to those very things that cause them to be overwhelmed. So before you shoot that "don't you know how to discipline your child" look to somebody, please stop and extend some grace as the parent may be dealing with a child that requires an extra amount of love and patience.
Aug 4, 2011 8:13 AM Guest Dody B.  says:

I love children! I love to hear them play and laugh and just be who they are and I could watch them all the day long in a park or backyard while they delight themselves in the world they are exploring. But when they begin to infringe on others who are spending time and money to enjoy an atmosphere free from noise and stress from undisciplined little ones then I don't see any reason why some establishments should offer their patrons an opportunity for a little reprieve. Our world should not cater to and revolve around children and the free range of their undeveloped social behaviors.
The problem at the core is that too often parent's selfishly think that their children have every right to run through restaurants and scream and yell and carry on without any thought and courtesy to others. Obviously, good behavior needs to be taught and what I see in public today is a far cry from teaching anything at all except that children are allowed to behave any way they want.

We recently spent our vacation at a very nice resort in Hawaii and they had several pools including one that was deemed and posted the "quiet pool". There were several children in the pool yelling and being far from "quiet" while their parents looked on adoringly at their little darlings.  We had to leave to go and find some peace and quiet.

Aug 4, 2011 8:14 AM Guest Erik M.  says:
Parents with small children should take them to restaurants that are family friendly. We taught our 6 how to behave in public. If they were causing a disturbance, we removed them from the restaurant (rarely happened). Parents should be considerate of other diners.
Aug 4, 2011 8:15 AM Guest Audrey A.  says in response to Agnes:
I believe children are a blessing from the Lord and it is important they are included with the family, Parents need to teach their chldren manners at home and at restaurants when they go out. They need to set an example for other parents that it is possible to take children out and enjoy an outing together. They need to pray and ask the Lord's guidance.
Aug 3, 2011 6:50 PM Guest Sherri  says:
I love children and have 3 almost grown kids. I also teach preschool.  I think it is fine to have a few fancy restaurants that do not allow kids under 6 to eat there.  I agree with the above comments...when a couple is trying to have some one on one romantic time together it makes it difficult when there is a screaming child at the next table.  I value children and don't think grocery stores or theaters need to ban them.
Aug 3, 2011 6:50 PM Guest Suzan  says in response to Susan:
I completely agree with Susan.  It sounds like they worked at teaching thier children what is the correct behavior when out in public.  It seems lots of parets these days are not doing this for several reasons; not knowing how to control their kids, inability to control them, not wanting to be bothered, not wanting to reward the child with any kind of attention when they use this type of behavior and the issue of child abuse now, no spanking in public etc.  Yes, more parents need to make more effort to "train them up in the way they should go", starting by removing them from the scene as soon as they start to act up.  Take them to the bathroom when on an airplane.  Just the simple act of always following through when the child is behaving badly will alert most kids to know that Mom or Dad is serious and will calm down to avoid whatever the consequences will be.
Aug 3, 2011 6:50 PM Guest JC  says:
Being an empty-nester, I enjoy seeing well-behaved children out with their families; I especially enjoy the laughter of a baby. I don't like it when the parents ignore what the child is doing, letting the child scream and in one case, even rock the highchair so violently that I had to rush over to the table to save the little girl from falling over, and the mother was mad at me for interfering. Personally, I think the mother should have been banned! When my children were growing up, we went out for family dinners and at the end of the evening, the waitresses would often come up to us and thank our children for being so well behaved, and (with our consent) would give them candy. Needless to say, the next restaurant trip was a success too! Like all of us, children enjoy being appreciated for good behavior.
Aug 4, 2011 8:27 AM Guest Tony I.  says:

As the church goes, so goes the culture. It has been my observation that Sunday morning worship meetings at the typical church strive to be a child-free environment. It is the norm for churches to separate parents from their children as often as possible. My wife and I have endeavored to keep our children (we have five, ages siz through 19) with us during worship throughout their childhood. It would be truly refreshing to see the church reverse its course and applaud the presence of children in the sanctuary as the miners did so long ago in that theater in California.

 

Let's have the church lead the way in welcoming children before we point fingers at the world for their attitude toward them.

Aug 4, 2011 8:28 AM Guest Nancy S.  says:
The problem is that kids are not being trained at home. They are acting out in public just as they act at home, they don't really care about the locale. Children not trained to be obedient or thoughtful at home aren't going to be any different in a restaurant or a store. They aren't being trained at home because either the parent has no personal discipline and so can't control the child, either, or else the parent is too self-absorbed to care and just wants an easy time now, with no thought about the child's future. Parents who don't train their kids are raising slaves--those kids become slaves to their own passions and are generally miserable. I don't want to be made miserable by them, either, and so I can applaud the restaurants who refuse to tolerate them. On the other hand, I feel so sorry for the kids, the little slaves, and I wish I could do something to help them. However, tolerating tantrums is not the answer. Until our society is willing to say no now and then, we are going to keep facing this problem.
Aug 4, 2011 8:42 AM Guest Rev. H  says:
Children are a blessing from the Lord! I don't believe that there needs to be discrimination against a child.  Yes, a crying baby can be a little annoying but I have seen parents do their best.
Aug 4, 2011 8:45 AM Guest Chris J  says:
Perhaps stores could start having "parents with children hours," no childless couples allowed. I can imagine how that would go over.
Aug 3, 2011 6:50 PM Guest Fred  says in response to Mistie :
My wife and I were reading through these and weren't surprised to see all the comments about "non-parenting."  The problem is rarely the child, much more likely the parent's lack of doing what they are supposed to be doing, raising the children.  We have seen this displayed over and over in many different venues from grocery stores to little league games to theaters and restaurants.  You can easily tell when the parents are trying even when the child is not being very uncooperative.  Rather than see child exclusion I'd like to see irresponsible parents exclusion.
Aug 3, 2011 6:52 PM Guest Karen  says:
I agree with what everyone else is saying.  I think if parents would discipline their children and take babies out of movies and restuarants when they cry, then the occasional "meltdown"  wouldn't be an issue.
Aug 3, 2011 6:52 PM Guest Alicia  says:
As a mother of two - one who behaves GREAT in public - always has since birth - and one that is a terror - I believe the problem lies in DISCERNMENT.  We could take my daughter ANYWHERE  but my son was another story - and still is.  I completely support places that limit either hours children can dine, or be entertained - whatever the situation simply because nowadays I see too many people not using good judegement in whether their children (or they) can handle the situation.  We are in a society where children are always 'plugged in' and have NO social skills.  Parents believe that by provding the child with a DVD, DS, PSP or whatever - is the answer.  I believe it only complicates the issue because now we are raising the children to be antisocial at the table (and probably poor manners as well) and not learn HOW to dine or handle themselves when they are bored or disinterested in a situation. As of this day, we don't take our son to certain establishments because he is not mature enough to handle them. BUT we do continue to slowly introduce longer dining situations, and situations that require more maturity so that he can grow.
Aug 4, 2011 8:55 AM Guest Scott W  says:

If the business can stay in business with this policy, it's their choice. I don't think we need the government involved in making a law about this! I have 4 children and don't have a problem with kids, even screamers. I fly just about every week and they don't bother me but I do push my ear buds a little further into my ears and turn up the Ipod. I understand that loud children to some are like smokers to me in the same places. Don't want to be around them. The problem becomes when parents ignore the child and let the child behave badly. My wife and I would get up and take our children outside or in the restroom so we wouldn't bother others. That's just common courtesy that we as a country have not passed on to our children.

Aug 3, 2011 6:52 PM Guest Susan  says:

Susan, Anne, and Erin nailed the problem. It's NOT the children, it's the parents who have  not taught their children what appropriate behavior looks like, or else don't hold them accountable. It's not all parents -- far from it, and not likely to be the people reading this forum. But, it only takes a couple of lax parents to spoil it for the rest. I love kids -- yes, other people's kids! I'm a long-time public school elementary teacher who does exactly that with my whole heart. But, because I love these children, and because I believe that this is the ministry God has given me to do, I have expectations for their behavior, and I teach them about and try to model respect and consideration for others. More and more in recent years I've come up against the "it's all about me" aspect of today's culture. In a restaurant or movie or even a store, I do not have a problem with a bona fide meltdown if it is dealt with. I see it as a child acting his/her age; being tired at the end of the day; etc. It happens. I DO have a problem with, for example, unsupervised children racing wildly around the restaurant or store. Just today, I corralled a 3-year-old racing tearing through Target and returned him to his mother. She hadn't missed him. I did it not because he was bothering me but because the teacher in me can't stand to see a child in a potentially dangerous situation. She thanked me, but some people would consider my getting involved as interference. In fairness, if I am looking forward to a peaceful dinner, I don't choose a restaurant where time and place make it likely to have an abundance of kids.

One last thing: Monique makes a very important point. Too often we get our exercise by jumping to conclusions. If Whole Foods in Missouri is offering this service to families with kids, they should be lauded. I think the same thing every time I go to the gym and see the young moms bringing their youngsters into the childcare provided by the gym staff. It's a win/win situation.

Aug 4, 2011 9:02 AM Guest Marilyn L  says:
I think some child free areas are appropriate and OK for people that do not want to hear screaming or misbehaving children while trying to relax, concentrate or enjoy a time away from their own children. I think a lot of  this goes back to the "free spirit" child rearing philosophy. Children are unpredictable, but parents are to blame much of the time for not using proper discipline. Yes, we raised two boys and had our moments, but did not hesitate to take them many places with us. I  know I may be called "old-fashioned" but children can be taught to behave and learn what is proper behavior in certain places. The Lord expects us to do a good job of parenting and he provided a good instruction manual - The Bible.
Aug 3, 2011 6:53 PM Guest Marvin R.  says:
I don't think it's necessarily a growing intolerance of children.  It's more like trying to have some freedom from unruly children who aren't or haven't been disciplined by their parents.  I try to be understanding and know that children, especially babies, can't always be quiet.  But it's also no fun to be stuck on a long airplane ride with a noisy child.  When it comes to restaurants, particularly nicer ones where you want a quiet atmosphere, unruly and noisy children can be an issue.  In reality though, I've actually been more annoyed in restaurants where there was a table of loud talking and laughing women nearby.
Aug 3, 2011 6:54 PM Guest Rachel  says:
I can understand it a little. Some parents don't even try to control their kids which is anoying but this is a bit much. I could espesially understand if it is a nice place to eat where couples go to have a date with each other. But, if I wasn't allowed to bring my kid (if I had one) on a plane with me, I wouldn't ride on with that airline, even if the restriction was to first class. And movies that are for family is ment to have kids there. If your going to be bugged by a kid being at a movie that is ment for kids, wait for it to come out on video. But I also think parents need to learn to control their kids. If they can't control them by age six, that is terrible. Then those people should just be asked to leave. I think it depends on the child and parents at the time. Also, perhaps with the option of having a kid or not with abortion and stuff that makes that choice so easy, we don't appreciate kids like we should.
Aug 3, 2011 6:55 PM Guest Lori  says:
I think kids are great.  I have two adult boys.  when they were young, i was respectful of others who are out to have a nice meal out...so either or went to kid friendly places
Aug 4, 2011 9:21 AM Guest Susan H  says:
I hope someone takes a survey of who is at the child-free restaurants. Funny thing is that it might be mostly parents! I love my kids but for my husband and I to get on the same page we need the chance to talk adult while the kids are baking cookies with the sitter. The mom in me has a hard time taking a rest if I hear children noises since I am wired to tune into why the baby is crying. I am not worried, there are plenty of resturants that know families spend $.
Aug 3, 2011 6:55 PM Guest Maryl  says:
I think overall establishements and businesses should have family friendly spots or times rather than totally banning them.  I fully understand the reason and even agree with it however, to totally ban is just wrong.  If I still had small children, I would probably never go back and patronize places that wouldn't accommodate me during those trying days.
Aug 3, 2011 6:55 PM Guest Kelly M.  says:

I think banning children from places is not a good idea, and I agree with some of the comments above, that parents disciplining their children and not letting them run rampant is a big part of it. I also agree that yes, it is a sign of society's self-centeredness.

 

By banning children in certain restuarants/grocery stores, etc., it makes it a lot harder on the parents, who may not be able to afford a babysitter, and/or in the case of single parents, children going with the parents makes it much easier.

 

My mother was not a single mom, but my dad worked days, and she worked nights, and we went a lot of places with her. I remember the daily errands and we'd all go along in the mini-van.

 

We can;'t control when or where our children may throw tantrums, but we can try to correctly handle the aftermath. I look forward to being a mom one day, and trying to the best of my ability  to rear them according to God's word. Children are such a blessing, I am so thankful that I work in a public library and I see and hear some of the cutest statements from children!

Aug 3, 2011 6:56 PM Guest Dan  says:

I think it's a great idea, as long as it doesn't go too far (I don't think it will).  I don't think it's an attack on the family or anything; it's quite similar to having "no smoking" rules in restaurants....I no more want to have a nice meal disturbed by a raging toddler than I do cigarette smoke wafting into my eating area.  This new process allows me to take my wife to a nice quiet dinner, or take the whole family to a child-friendly establishment.  Hurray!

Aug 3, 2011 6:56 PM Guest Jim  says:
It seems to me that the "no children" rule is a natural extension of the same selfishness that leads so many younger people today to decide not to have children.  The idea that I would not want children so I can dedicate my life and resources to my own happiness is very selfish.  Sadly, it is also foolish since children bring joy in addition to challenges; they not only have to be taught, but they do quite a bit of teaching themselves.  That said, I do see the trend toward "no children" and expect that it will likely grow in the future.
Aug 3, 2011 6:57 PM Guest Alicia  says in response to Nick:
Completely agree.  We went to a movie last night that was PG-13.  It was FILLED with parents toting 6mo-5 years old.  The movie was Cowboys and Aliens - HARDLY a movie for very young children!!  By us, Tuesday nights are $5 movies - and the theaters are FILLED with parents who believe that $5 movie is better (cheaper) for their child than a babysitter.  So, now not only are the children potentially exposed to inappropriate content - BUT those of us who want to see the movie are distracted by crying, talking children.  Obviously the parents should use better judgemet - but the establishment should reinforce the guidelines set in place such as R, PG-13, NC-17 etc.
Aug 3, 2011 6:57 PM Guest leigh  says:
I don't want to see children banned from too many things, but the problem is not the children, it's with the parents.  When my children were small, we didn't go to nice restaurants if we thought the children couldn't behave.  If they cried much, we took them out, or didn't stay long.  Today, parents let their children run around among other tables, play in the fountain or plants, yell and make lots of noise.  It's not just the crying of infants that are annoying, it's the toddlers and elementary children who are out of control.
Aug 3, 2011 6:57 PM Guest Monique J.  says:

I totally agree with most of the comments already posted which seem to overwhelmingly place the responsibility on the many parents who no longer seem to be willing to spend the time and effort training their children so they will not only (Most of the time) be a blessing to be around, but will also learn about self-control and respect for others.

There is a place and time for everything.  I am a grandmother and my grandchild behaves well in public simply because she had learned at a very early age that we would not give her the choice to do otherwise without unpleasant consequenses.

My rare evenings out with a friend(s) have often turned into total fiascos due to children who were acting as though they were in their own private playground while their caretakers were totally amused!    The children are not to blame most of the time:  All of them will try to push the envelope to the limit unless we set healthy boundaries for them.  For that reason, yes, I am totally for some nicer restaurants or establishments cathering to adults only.

Aug 3, 2011 6:58 PM Guest Abraham Lara  says:
simply put, i think my support or resistance towards this trend depends on whether i'm the one trying to take my kids out to one of these venues, or whether i'm going out with my wife without our kids.
Aug 3, 2011 6:58 PM Guest Lynn  says:
My husband and I like children.  We teach classes about Jesus at an inner city church.  We love to see the children learn and grow.  However, when we go to an expensive place for dinner, we don't enjoy having our special time ruined by crying babies or young ones who have not learned manners yet.  We feel we have the right to enjoy the experience.  So, I think some childfree restaurants would be nice - so people could have the option.
Aug 3, 2011 6:59 PM Guest Gloria  says:

I think it is terrible to ban children of any age.  Children are the beginning of our next generation.  Without them our country will be in even worse shape in years to come.  If we had the 40 million or so children who have been aborted they would be working and paying taxes and SS so that money wouldn't be a problem for the Feds.  I absolutely love my grand children - they are the best!  Can't imagine someone not allowing children in their place.

Aug 3, 2011 6:59 PM Guest Becky  says:

Like others have already inferred, I think the disruptions are more of a parent problem then a child problem, and I don't think they are fixed by 6 years old.  I understand the reasoning for this and can respect it, but I don't think it is the solution.

 

Being a mom of 5 young ones, I also understand needing some no child time, and the suggested set aside hours for adults only seems like a nice idea.  If it is important to you, you know when to attend.

 

I am actually more concerned with how intolerant churches have become of young children.  I am not referring to screaming and tantrums or loud talking, but occasional noises that need to be hushed or even whispered questions.  Like my Dad often reminds, how will they ever have the opportunity to ask "why do we do this?" if they are not allowed in the meeting?  This is not only a problem at my church.  While recently visiting another church, I was told by a lady, even before she asked my name, that there was a nursery.  Though my 10 month old was quiet at the time, there was a clear understanding that any distraction would not be accepted.  As a result, as soon as she started getting fidgety, I left.

And we wonder why our children leave the church when they are adults ... Sometimes it is hard for the parents to stay with this type of acceptance.

Aug 3, 2011 6:59 PM Guest Victoria  says:

My five kids are not perfect but I will take them out of the public area to train them on how to behave. Also they are in training at home, in the car, at Gramma's house, etc. Parents need to be pro-active and learn how to train their children to behave.

 

Why couldn't a business kindly ask a parent or guardian to remove the child until calmed down? I think they would do that with a disruptive adult don't you?

Aug 4, 2011 9:44 AM Guest Paul M  says:
I love children and I even work with children of all ages, infants and up, and I wouldn't trade my job for the world.  However, I believe there are places where children should not be taken.  I fully support the option of "Adults Only" viewings at movie theaters.  Not a complete ban on them.  When I'm in a theater I want to be able to watch the movie and hear the dialogue without straining to hear over the screams of an infant.  Yes they are unpredictable, that is why, in my opinion, theaters are not the place for infants no matter what age the movie is directed at.  The same for some restaurants.  Not all restaurants.  There are kid friendly establishments but if I and my date are out for a formal dining experience, a screaming child at the next table is not conducive for intimate conversation,.
A complete ban on children, no matter what the age, is unreasonable and sets a dangerous precedent but there some places and times where they just don't belong.  Babysitting exists for a reason.
Aug 3, 2011 6:59 PM Guest GiulianoSlave4JesusChrist  says:
Wow! Such incredible comments. I do not have kids but I love them. I agree that parents ought to parent their kids if they are having a fit etc. For the most part I see this in restaurants when the children are being children without any boundaries or limitations set by mom and dad. The kids are in complete and utter control of their parents. No discipline at home so out in public what do we expect? No discipline. Just bribing and pleading and maybe threatening. It's a shame and it's the parent's fault who does not teach, first in their home, acceptable and unacceptable behavior to the children. From another perspective, as followers of Jesus Christ I think it could also be a possible attack on the family. We know our enemy Satan hates the family and will try and diminish it in any way he can. Just my thoughts. Bless all of you parents out there. Tony G.
Aug 3, 2011 7:00 PM Guest Kurt  says:
I have to agree that there is a need for places that disallow children.  I have 4 children and my wife and I work hard to teach them manners and teach them to respect others by watching their behavior in restaurants and theaters.  Sadly people are amazed at their proper manners and controlled behavior.  Sadly you say? Sure - They see too many children who have no manners and completely disrespect their parents authority. Until we take control of our families and fathers quit abandoning their chilren (altogether, by leaving the family or by not supporting their wives in child rearing) we will be complaining of children that are out of control and unable to display even the most basic manners.
Aug 3, 2011 7:00 PM Guest Ruth  says:
While I also believe children are a blessing from the Lord, the last thing I want to hear on an oh so rare date with my husband is a screaming child. When our children were young and we ate out our policy was a child with less than delightful manners was immediately sent to the car with one parent and the meal was eaten in the car while the well behaved kids got to enjoy theirs in the restaurant. We didn't make a super big deal out of it but the kids did catch on fairly quickly. I would sure hate to have my child spoil  anniversary or other special occasion.
Aug 3, 2011 7:01 PM Guest Hugh  says:
Our culture "tolerates" all kinds of weird stuff.  It sees like the only things we do not "tolerate" are Christians, the mention of God, Southerners and now children.  This type of restriction may just be another attempt to weaken family bonds.  I don't appreciate children running all over the restaurant, however, I have a bigger problem with loud adults sharing their conversations with the entire rrestaurant.  It saddens me that we have to "post" signs to tell folks what not to do.  Common sense and courtesy used to dictate our public behavior,  Now if it is not clearly prohibited, people feel they can behave any way they choose.
Aug 4, 2011 9:59 AM Guest Steven S  says in response to Erin:
Psalm 127:3, that “Children are a blessing from the Lord.”  - this is correct but I would say that your children are your blessing and not mine! This issue is not born out of dislike of kids or somehow our culture has turned against kids.Sure at times it might seem that way and maybe there are people who really feel and act this way but I would argue those people are fare and few between and perhaps not really connected to the reasons they might think or act in such a way. One might argue that the problem is not with the greater society but rather with the family unit; why should people who are negatively affected by the ineptness of parents in the culture be concerned with why or why they should not like children in restaurants – don’t lose me here...the cause here is not the greater society or the companies that enact such a policey, the problem if the American Family Unit. I can't tell you how life was when I was < 6 years old, but I can tell you what my sister and brother were like. There are 11 & 15 years between us, anyway, my parents would not go out to a restaurant while the baby was less than two years old, why, well there reason is obvious! Kids cry and throw things - not really a “blessing” to fellow patron who is getting hit in the back of the head with food and now has a ringing in their ear! On my 15th birthday and we went to an Indian restaurant, my now 4 year old sister decided to have a fit and a half of a fit. For me the experienced was short lived, why? Because Mom took my sister outside to straighten her out and there they stayed, my sister now at 40 is still a strong will child! Therein lies the problem; parents can't spank without fear of social reprisal. We are creating and have created a society of people that are selfish and narcissistic. If you’re not able to tell the difference between positive corrective action vs. self-serving self-help designed to save the self-esteem\psyche - (btw, of a child that has not developed one yet) you are then building a culture of people that are not able to parent for how can a narcosis teach others how to serve let alone be considerate of the people around them. My hat goes off to those parents that are able to have their family sit down in a restaurant and enjoy a meal along with the rest of their community, it is sad to say that you are far and few between.

Matthew 20:16
16 "So those who are last will be first. And those who are first will be last."

For the rest of you, have you considered the following? Proverbs 3:12. For the LORD corrects those he loves, just as a father corrects a child in whom he delights.
Aug 4, 2011 9:59 AM Guest Rebecca H  says:

There is no way

 

 

I believe the trend of businesses "banning" children is a clear indication of the changing attitude in this nation toward children. They are increasingly seen as a "problem" rather than a blessing.

Aug 4, 2011 3:28 PM Guest Marisela  says:

Well, I do agree with many of the comments above! Children ARE a blessing from the Lord! , but let's not forget "spare the rod, spoil the child"!  Too many places, like California, for instance, if you take a misbehaving child who refuses to listen and give them a good old-fashioned loving but firm spanking, you may soon expect Child Protective Services knocking on your front door accusing you of child abuse!!

 

People want other parents to discipline their children, and yet those same people will look at you as if you are an abuser for gently but firmly spanking your child. All the "time -outs" in the world do not do the quick and effective job that a good old-fashioned spanking does for a two-year old throwing a temper tantrum.

 

Yes there is a trend toward childlessness (a more selfish and self-centered society and abortion on demand)  as there is a trend of intolerance towards young children and families with young children. I also think though, that children are more prone to misbehave than generations past not because they are different but because times are different and many parents don't care to discpline or are discouraged or afraid to discipline correctly!

Aug 3, 2011 7:01 PM Guest Liisa  says:

I think this "trend" of excluding families is indicative of a society whose self-centered pursuits breed intolerance.How far from the segregation

of black people down south decades ago, does this fall short of? Would we tolerate first class seating for certain races?

Aug 3, 2011 7:02 PM Guest Bryan  says in response to Rise:
If your child is misbehaving such as screaming and pitching a fit then you as the parent remove that child until they get right.  If they do not then guess what?  You have to leave with them, so you respect those around you and you make it a learning situation for you and your child.  If we have that kind of action consistently then the "trend" of adult only anything will lessen but make no mistake there is a 'power' of this world that wants to destroy you as a christian and will go through the trouble to encourage this type "discrimination."
Aug 3, 2011 7:02 PM Guest paul  says:
i am of the opion that if i own a business then i should be allowed to determine what i will allow and not allow in my business. if it is my choice to not allow disruptive children in my business then i should be allowed to restrict access to my business.  we restrict children in bars,  adult clubs, adult movies. but then i am of the opion if i run a business and chose to let smoking go on then those that are bothered by smoking should take their business elsewhere and when i decide to cash in on non-smokers i will change my policies. same thing with cashing in on noisy children.
Aug 3, 2011 7:02 PM Guest Rebekah  says:
I feel children who are in a public place such as a nice restaurant, movie theater, etc, should be taken out until they calm down.  I took my children and now my grandson to many places and expected them to behave.  If they didn't, either they left with one parent or we all packed up and went home.  They soon learned if they wanted to stay they needed to be quiet.  Both of my children and my grandson have ADHD and that was never an excuse for bad behavior.  I work with children who have autism and feel that is also not an excuse to disrupt others in certain places.  If the child is unable to be quiet and listen then take them to places that it won't matter.  Today, many parents think it is OK to have disruptive children any where they want to go.  As a society in general, we have lost the ability to be considerate of others.
Aug 4, 2011 7:11 AM Guest Carolyn Y.  says:

Yesterday my husband and I were traveling home from visiting our grandchildren for a few days and were looking forward to a nice quiet lunch in a nice restaurant.  As we approached the door two moms and two little boys entered before us yelling and making lots of noise.  I thought to myself, "I hope they don't sit near us" but they did.  The boys stood in the seats yelling and withthe moms yelling back at them during the whole meal. Needless to say we didn't enjoy our meal and neither did the other customers.  Yes, it's great to see some families with well behaved children but it would also be great to have some restaurants that were child-free to choose from.

Aug 3, 2011 7:03 PM Guest Lisa  says:

It's called FREE MARKET for a reason.

Aug 4, 2011 7:12 AM Guest Linda S.  says:
I love children! I am a grandmother of three adorable little girls. And am also a Peds/PICU nurse. That being said, I do agree that restaurants, movie theaters, etc have a right to reserve special times or even have a no child under 6 rule. Let's face it, even the most mannerly and well behaved little ones can get a case of the wiggles,  break into song at inopportune times,or sometimes cry in frustration. There are plenty of family friendly places to take young ones and in those types of more welcoming environments they can practice their social graces.
Aug 4, 2011 7:21 AM Guest Barbara  says:
The growing intolerance of babies and toddlers is a part of the satanic plan to desensitize people concerning the value of human life. The thought grows as thus: "We can abort them as they are being born. We can abort them up to the age of one. We can abort them before they reach school age." Whatever the world can get away with, they will push for twice that the next time.
Aug 3, 2011 7:03 PM Guest Sabrina D. R.  says:
If we add together just the Babyboomers, Childless Couples and "Date Night Couples", we could soon have a majority of the population coming onboard to accept policies such as this.  I disagree that this a sign of a growing intolerance toward children and see this as their answer to not being part of "the village" that is raising some of these children.  We can see "selfishness" on both sides and both sides can claim they are "offended" if battle lines had to be drawn.  Let's let the world be the world and let them watch as the love of Jesus guides our tongues and actions.   The marketplace will adjust and begin providing new businesses that welcome children and famlies.  Actually, wouldn't that be an answer to prayer?  Just think of the Theaters, Restaurants and Stores that will open just to welcome family dollar.  No more alcohol, smoke, judgemental looks or foul language.  The childless businesses will have their patrons and a new crop of child and family friendly businesses will open to cater to their patrons.  Can you say "jobs"?  This could be an opportunity for Christians to open these businesses.  Not only would this help the economy, these businesses could become the largest community ministry ever!  Local churches would be able to grow and mentor their communities.  Talk about showing the love of Jesus!  It looks as though this could be a good thing if responded to in a positive manner.
Aug 3, 2011 7:03 PM Guest Michelle  says:
Going out to dinner, movies, shopping are all privileges for our son.  He is now 10 but learned from a very young age what behavior is tolerated and what isn't.  Personally, the biggest reinforcement of this for him has been learning to be still during church for an hour a week.  We have never believed in shuttling him off to a classroom during service.  He needed to learn to be quiet, respectful and decent.  What better environment than church is there in which to learn this?  As a parent, there is nothing worse than being out for a nice evening only to have it ruined by someone else's spoiled brats.  Not every parent has the sense to properly train their kids, much less the sense to leave them home when they can't behave.
Aug 3, 2011 7:04 PM Guest alisha  says:
Everyone is completely missing the point.  This has nothing to do with discipline, rudeness, etc.  This is an exercise in free enterprise.  If a business doesn't want to allow children, it should have every right to enact such a practice.  I am not saying it's the correct thing to do, but it should be the right of the business.  Customers who don't agree don't have to shop there.  Usually such practices aren't pursued because they actually hurt business. So, if enacting childless policies end up hurting business, I guarantee a business will drop such a practice. I love Focus on the Family, but this is a focus on the wrong issue.
Aug 4, 2011 6:54 AM Guest Tom  says in response to Agnes:
You know, we live in a capitalist society so if a restaurant wants to ban children that is their perogative.  If it doesn't work, they will know by reduced sales and fewer customers but if it does work (and I believe I would chose a childless restaurant sometimes despite my three children) they will also know with increased customers and sales.  If it doesn't work, the restaurant will either go out of business or just limp along but if it is a successful move they will see it on the bottom line and continue.
Aug 4, 2011 6:55 AM Guest Sandy D.  says:
I'm actually a little surprised at the number of people that agree with this - I thought I would be in the minority.  But when my husband and I go out to dinner, especially to a nice restaurant, I do not want to have it ruined because of parents that do not discipline their children.  As much as it might shock them, not everyone thinks that their child's antics are adorable.  We now tend to stay away from children eat free nights, and we often sit in the bar area for that reason.  However, I have actually gone up to parents and commended them on how well behaved their children were.  I fully understand the occasional tantrum - it's the constant running, screaming, hanging over the booths, etc. that make for an unenjoyable dinner out, especially when the parents do absolutely nothing to stop them.  And I realize that it's not the poor childrens' fault - it belongs totally to the parents.  We don't eat out real often, so when we do, we would really like to enjoy it.
Aug 3, 2011 7:07 PM Guest Sandy  says:

I think it is up to the business owner who they want to include.  I have seen so many unruly children in restaurants and other businesses that I just can't even imagine what their parents are thinking.  Most of it is selfishness, laziness, other (?) on the part of the parent.  When I was growing up we rarely ate out--that was something for adults to do.  Now, children are allowed to experience everything adults do out in the world from the time they are born because parents don't want to miss out on anything and stay home.  I see parents constantly trying to reason with their little one--as if a toddler can reason.  Parents need to grow up and parent.  'Children should be seen and not heard' was pretty much the rule when I was growing up.  I think that held true for many, many years.  Now kids think they have the same authority as adults.

No, I am not a kid hater.  I am a retired teacher and love children.  My husband and I work with the 2's and 3's every Sunday at our church and we enjoy them.  We also have 5 grandkids who live nearby and we adore them.  But it sure is easier to be around them when they mind and it's way more fun.  Parents want the schools, churches, and daycare to teach their children what was once  taught by the parent in the home.  There's a bigger problem looming than just banning children!

Aug 4, 2011 6:57 AM Guest Robert E. M.  says:
I love children (well behaved and disciplined) .The last thing I want to listen to is a child wailing in the background and it's parents  clueless on what to do when I'm having a meal in a restaurant. .Come on HOW RUDE can you be .If you can't keep your child from being loud and unruley then you shouldn't go out to eat .Have a little more respect for others.I consider the loud child in the restaurant a parenting problem .
Aug 4, 2011 6:58 AM Guest Claire B  says:
I think there is a place for such restaurants.  As a few people above noted, some parents are not disciplining their children and it can turn a wonderful night out into a horror show to be next to a table with an out-of-control child constantly talking very loud or worse, yet screaming every few seconds.  Like I did, when my children were young, parents need to show some common sense about the hour they take their children to a restaurant and be cognizant that there are adults who are wanting to enjoy a quiet meal:  which like us could be their entertainment/night out for the week.  I think Olive Garden has a good idea:  they have a separate area for families with small children.  When planning a family meal out, it's a good idea to make it for lunch or very early evening.  There are many parents these days who don't take the time to teach their child manners with regard to eating in a restaurant, and often take them at late, and inappropriate times of day.
Aug 3, 2011 7:08 PM Guest Margie  says:

I think this is really sad.  Children are a part of our culture and very being!!!  I understand that there are times when children should be left a home with a sitter, especially if you know it's going to be a late night.  Children will always be whinning when the are tired, some adults I know get that way as well!!

 

Welcome to yet another cultural break through!!

Aug 3, 2011 7:08 PM Guest Jennifer  says:
I think that this IS a sad indicator of the direction our country, and people's attitudes are going. Yes, it is a business' right to ban whomever they wish from their restaurant, but there are an awful lot of misbehaving adults that I can't control that annoy me when we are out as well! I think it's the risk you take when you go out. But banning children? I think it is sad that so many undisciplined children have given them a bad rap, but I think this is a step too far. Our society increasing separates people out based on ages and life situations when what we really need is to learn from each other. Children need to see us adults and be with us so they can learn from us- at home, school, church, everywhere! How sad for a child to see a sign that says they are not allowed and not wanted. The root of the problem is both the parents who cannot control their children and those who have no compassion or patience for families with children.
Aug 3, 2011 7:09 PM juicy360 juicy360    says:

As some have stated, the issue is not children in general, but the lack of general parenting our nation is suffering from. Undisciplined children who's parents either don't know or don't put the work into raising good kids. I'm not a perfect parent, but my wife and I were raised old school and we raise our kids to a high standard. I have 5 children now, I remember when we had 4 ages 2, 4, 6, 8 we would eat out frequently. We taught them to sit quietly (even the 2 year old), eat with manners, and yet still had a great time as a family. We would often have strangers come up and comment on how well behaved our kids were and how enjoyable it was to watch them. Now having said that, it took a lot of time and effort to teach them this, but it is completely doable and something our society has devalued. People LOVE to see well behaved children, they are a joy to all they meet. Undisciplined children are just uncomfortable/unenjoyable to be around. You feel bad for the parent who is embarassed, for the child who is acting out, and for the people around you who have to deal with it all. I don't recall the cry for these types of child-less services in the 50's when the family standard was more in sync.  People didn't take their 3 year old to an R/PG-13 film. They didn't let them run around like wild animals, speak with dissrespect to elders, have no regard for authority, or a total dissregard for the "golden rule" (do unto others...). Without a mass turn around back to God's standards for our family, I think this is only the begining.

Aug 3, 2011 7:09 PM Guest Mary  says:

As a teacher for the past 28 years, I have seen the good and the bad in families.  If  parents are parenting and expecting their children to show respect and show self-control, then I am all for family friendly theatres, shopping, restraunts, etc.  But it would also be helpful if there were a time when I could be free of unruly children who are not being parented by any one.   I love children and I support families.  However, I have increasingly been forced to eat, shop, watch movies,etc. where children are running loose, hollaring and shouting, talking back to parents, throwing fits all in public without any correction from the parent.

 

There are places where I go as an adult and expect to not deal with the above scenerios.  I have grown to expect it at fast food places, matinee movies, Target and Walmart.  But I hope I don't have to tolerate it at Sacs 5th Ave, my favorite steak place, or evening movies.   Kids are welcome at Sacs, etc. but I would expect them to be on their very best behavior.

 

Children need to be taught how to act with respect in public.  My parents raised 5 children; my brothers have raised 13, and now there are 9 great neices and nephews.  All of whom I would gladly go anywhere with because they have been taught respect and self-control at home.

 

I n conclusion, let me leave a real life experience at Pizza Hut.  I have a friend who has 8 children.  One day I gave her a break and took 6 of her children ages 2-10 for the day.  She dressed them in appropriate clothes for play and pizza.  When I walked into Pizza Hut each of the two older children took two of the younger ones to the bathroom to wash hands, etc.  Meanwhile, I got a highchair for the youngest and a booth.  They returned, sat down, ordered with me and had converstation while we waited for the food.  We discussed their week and what playground to visit in the afternoon.  When the food came, it was passed around to each child in turn by the oldest boy.  They ate without mess and continued to talk quietly as we ate.  When we were finished the oldest girl stacked the plates and trash.  The second oldest washed the baby's face and got the trash off the tray.  There was nothing on the floor in the way of scraps or trash.  The manager came over and commented to each of the children as to how well they had behaved.  I just sat and supervised.  Children can be taught manners and civil behavior at a very young age if someone is willing.  We had a grand time at the park and ice cream after.  This was 20 years ago and all these children are model citizens today because a mother and dad invested time to train them to be outstanding young men and women.  What a legacy.  I was privileged to have known her and them.

 

I

Aug 3, 2011 7:10 PM Guest Julia  says:

Obviously restaurants cater to different clientele, and you can usually tell when you walk in the door whether it's a kid-friendly place or not.  Bringing our two young preschoolers to a restaurant that was not kid-friendly once was a very stressful experience, and I've decided for all parties involved (our kids, me, the wait staff, and other diners) to avoid such episodes in the future.  Having a sign on their door excluding young kids doesn't offend me--it just helps me better understand what type of clientele the restaurant is appealing to, and therefore decide if it's a "date night" place or a "family" place.

Aug 4, 2011 7:06 AM Guest Jeff L.  says:

It is sad to see.  Our children are grown, 19 and 22.  My wife an I eat out quite often and even though we do not have children younger than 6 eating with us we soon will, our grandchildren if the Lord so chooses.  I will not patronize the restaurant.

Aug 3, 2011 7:10 PM Guest suzanne  says:

I believe children are a blessing from God.  So is the job of parenting.  It's a parent's job to try their best to keep their children quiet when in "adult" public places.  It's also the onlooker's job to have paitence with a struggling parent, not condemn them.  The "need" for adult-only restaurants is a symptom of selfishness - on both the part of the parents who refuse to delay their own gratification by refusing to remove their children when they are disruptive, and on the part of impatient onlookers who think it's "all about them" and unrealistically demand a child never make a peep.  How is a child ever supposed to learn to eat in an adult setting unless he's allowed to practice when he's younger (and maybe a bit louder)?  And, how is the child supposed to learn to eat in an adult setting if his parents refuse to teach him to be quiet and not throw food or yell?

Aug 3, 2011 7:10 PM Guest jim  says:
I am not offended, as I do understand the point of view that if people are going to spend their money they should generally get the experience they want whether at a movie or restaraunt, etc.  As I do have children, I appreciate the places that do welcome us and am happy to give them our money.  As my wife and I have an autistic child who can't always control herself in public we appreciate places that welcome us, and people that tolerate our "reality".  I work at a grocery store and often deal with screaming kids and talk to them and their parents while they shop.  Many parents appreciate an employee and company who will walk right up, get involved, and help.  I think that shows the fruits God ecpects from us (Galatians "love, patience, longsuffering, etc.").  Those that don't want to show those qualities can sit at their quiet restaraunt or movie and enjoy it.  I will continue to enjoy the joyful noise of children and support those businesses who welcome us!
Aug 3, 2011 7:11 PM Guest melody  says:
I think it probably reflects a lot of things:  the change in how parents allow their children to act in public (not the occasional 'hissy' from a tired child, but outright misbehavior with no parental intervention or removal from the situation/store!), our society changing to a 'me first, me only' attitude and the fact that everything costs SO much anymore, if you go somewhere and pay to be there, you'd like to enjoy it!  I also know several young Moms who feel so guilty about having to work so much, not being home enuf and not spending enuf time with their children, that they feel they have to take their children EVERYWHERE with them, even if they have a family member or friend who would keep them for a few hours! I just don't feel that children should be taken everywhere! What child age infant to 3 years old (at least) wouldn't be happier somewhere playing or resting than being drug thru Wal Mart or a grocery store?!  Certainly children need to learn how to behave in public, but small doses will accomplish the same goal until the child is old enuf to understand what's expected of them.
Aug 3, 2011 7:11 PM Guest jill  says:

I could feel anger starting to seeth through me at first on this topic.  I really do understand that not everyones kids behave, or are not expected to behave rather in public venues.  Then there are toddlers who just have had enough and melt down.

What burns me is that I actually got kicked out of church for having my grandson with me.  Oh yeah, upset, very, to the point where I ran out crying.  My daughter told me not to worry, just go into the nursing mom room.  Well, the big sign on the door said no one except for nursing moms.  Okay, then I found a door that said Dad's room to bring kids.  It was empty, had a little window to look out in the childless congregation, and by the way, it was located in the back right of the church so people would have to shift and look way to the right to see us.  My grandson being about a year old was afraid of the dark so I turned the light on and held him and sometimes set him on the floor to read or play.  An usher rushed in, flipped the light off, which caused the baby to cry, as the usher yelled at me that I was disrupting the congregation since they could see me.  I said, oh heaven forbid if anyone sees a grandma going to church with her grandson.  I was also rude and told him he obviously had not seen the story where Jesus says to Let the little children come unto me.  I then ran out with the baby and just can't bring myself to attend church anymore.  I pray and pray, but don't see an answer to my problem.

Sorry for being long winded, yes, agreed, private business can do as they like, children/no children, smoking/no smoking, pets or not.  As someone mentioned, other business will crop up to cater to someone or something.

For the record, I'm a kid patient person, 4 kids, homeschooled, expected and did behave well everywhere most of the time, now raising a toddler grandson since his birth.  If he acts up, I remove him from the problem, redirect and try to solve the problem.  I understand how people without kids don't really want to hear a screaming kid.

Aug 3, 2011 7:11 PM Guest Amy  says:
It is a private business, the owner can do as he wishes.  That being said, I am all for this and I am the mom of 3 kids! My husband and I would remove our children when they were causing disturbances, but unfortunately, I have been subjected to too many children on planes, in stores, school programs and restaurants where the parents have allowed their children to run rampant, throw tantrums, etc, seemingly oblivious to the chaos they were creating!  Adults (child-equipped and childless) should have the option of being able to eat at a place that is child-free.
Aug 4, 2011 6:47 AM Guest Carmen G.  says:
I totally agree agree with each and every comment posted.  I wouldn't worry about it. The free enterprise system can handle this issue quite well.
Aug 3, 2011 7:15 PM Guest Bob  says:

As society becomes more and more self absorbed and me-centric, so goes the trend in parenting. Many parents completely fail to teach their children to respect others, and they think nothing of letting them run wild and disrupt everyone around them. Our pastor even let his son run wild around the church as though it was his own playroom.

If it takes some sort of restrictions to let others dine in peace so be it. Unfortunately, once again those causing the problems are making others suffer for their own belligerence.

Aug 3, 2011 7:15 PM Guest Alan  says:

I don't believe it is as much an intolerance towards children as it is a continued path toward a self-centered world. I agree that at times an active child can be annoying. I think there is a time and a place. But this new trend is a sad statement about our society.

 

I travel extensively. I see kids acting out at times and I see parents many times frustrated by their children, usually more in their mind than in anyone elses. I try and always comment to the parents that they should enjoy their kids, accept them for who they are and where they're at in life. I always tell them, been there, done that. I'd go back to those days anytime. They were the BEST days.  Maybe the complainers should try commitment, family and kids. I will NOT do business with any business that implements a policy of tearing down families.

Aug 4, 2011 6:44 AM Guest Pam C.  says:

Reminds me of the famous Bonhoeffer quote that went something like "When they came for the Jews I did not speak out because I wasn't a Jew, when they came for the Unionist I did not speak out because I wasn't a unionist, when they came for etc... when they came for me there was nobody left to speak out.

 

How many times have we all thought " that will never happen " then it does!  This is crazy and I will not support business who behave this way.

Aug 4, 2011 6:45 AM Guest Nancy T.  says:
If the children are too young or too spoiled to be responsive to parental direction, they should not be in public places.  Nothing - and I mean NOTHING - is more aggravating that a screaming or whinning child.  Please, I raised mine and never did I expect others to have to listen to their "outbursts" or their "acting out" or whatever other description parents today give to their children's antics.  A restaurant is a place where people go to eat and enjoy company and that does not include the crying of infants or the screaming of toddlers (or spoiled older kids).  So many children today are destined to a life of misery because Mom and Dad can't or won't insist on good  manners in public.  Raise up a child in the way he should go and he shall not depart from it.  It isn't the child's fault - it is the over-indulging parent(s).
Aug 3, 2011 7:17 PM Guest erick  says:

It will probably be a growing trend in society to exclude those "noisy, smelly beings" some people insist on taking everywhere. I notice that pets are more welcome at more establishments than ever before though. And for some time animals have had more legal protection than humans in the womb.I Recently read that Americans will spend some 50 billion dollars on their pets this year.Up is down, right is wrong.

     Yes, it is a sign of the times. 

Aug 3, 2011 7:17 PM Guest Grandma  says:
I would never advocate making all restaurants child free.   However some restaurants are inappropriate for young children.  The restaurant from the Pittsburgh area happens to be a Bar/restaurant.  It is more bar than restaurant and I feel that is an inappropriate environment for children under 6. 
Aug 3, 2011 7:17 PM Guest G.E.  says:

I

think a lot of the problem is the parent, not the kids.  We were watching a movie and the child sitting behind my husband kept kicking the bottom of my husband's chair.  Hard kicks, over and over again.  My husband turned around and asked him to stop kicking his chair, and he replied, "Liar, liar".  The man, I would guess to be his Dad, ignored the entire thing and just kept looking at the movie.  We also attended a funeral this year and the child sitting in the pew behind us had a small toy car in his hands.  He would run it on the back of the pew, back and forth, on the top of the pew behind our heads.  He would also talk during the service and made a noise that was either gum smacking or a bad cold.  We could not hear the service and wanted to move, but it was in an obvious area of the church and would have drawn even more attention.  I think some parents see "going out" as a way to let their children loose on others while they get a break. I hate to say it, but I asked not to be seated by kids because of past experiences.  I also do not think it has always been this common to have "bad kid events" in public.  I think parents are less willing to train their children.  Sad.

Aug 3, 2011 7:17 PM Guest Phyllis  says:
I can understand this , as so many parents today do not know how to control their children and it is very upsetting to others, especially Grandmothers!  It does not mean we don't like kids. Parents should know how to at least take their children out at the first sign of disruption, but they seem oblivious to the disturbance to others.  This generation is SELFISH!  I was in  a Christian concert recently and there was a very loud and long disturbance by 2 children right behind me causing those around to completely miss the  beautiful song being sung.  The children were the female singer's own children and that husband didn't know enough to take them out!!  It was very upsetting and so thoughtless.   If parents would think ahead and plan distractions to quiet children in public areas it would help, but again, this generation does not seem to know how to do this.  You can't take a baby out when on an airplane, but at least take a bottle for a baby on an airplane so their ears will stay unplugged.  
Aug 3, 2011 7:18 PM Guest Mary  says:
I have 2 children of my own, I teach little ones at church, and I love children dearly. However, I do understand some places doing this now because  some parents don't take responsibility for  their childrens' behaviour. When my kids were small, I also took them to lowercost "kid-friendly" restaurants. Sometimes they too acted up. They were  reminded of how to act ,and if necessary taken out so as not to disturb others. I rarely had to do this and never frequently. The same in church. However, I frequently see children in stores, restaurants, and even church who act up loudly. I also often see parents who try to "play nice" with them by begging them to behave rather than sternly tellling them to behave. I see parents who completely ignore it as though it is not happening. I see parents who also go overboard and end up humiliating themselves by screaming at a 2-3 yr old as though they are of equal age to the parent. some parents do not seem to have any parenting skills and do not have the courtesy to take the child quietly out of the situation and deal with him/her so as not to make others listen to their screaming kids. Our children were by no means perfect but we tried to deal with it appropriately and quietly without subjecting others who were trying to shop,eat or worship. Our children learned to behave in a manner that was expected for the most part. They were aware beforehand of  our expectations, rules were generally the same no matter where we were, and we rarely had to correct them because they knew the rules.
Aug 3, 2011 7:18 PM Guest Carol  says:

I feel it could be a "Pandora's Box".  As long as the government does NOT get involved I believe that if that business owner wants to have only adults, then so be it.  It could close his/her business or it could build it.  I am all for children and have never minded them anywhere, but there are times I would like to "discipline" the parents!  I am in aggreement with "Greg".  He is the kind of parent I would not ever mind sitting next to in a restrauant - disciplining  children, in love, shows them you love them.  I love seeing families out together, but if there is a restaurant that would like to cater to adults only, because we know some parents are not good with disciplining, then so be it.

Aug 4, 2011 6:52 AM Guest Zester H.  says:

Zester says:

 

My wife and I have six children and twenty four grandchildren. We never allowed out children to be unruly or impolite in public. Now our children are teaching these same principles to our granchildren.  For this trangenerational blessing we are most thankful to God.  Our parents taught us that "Pretty is as pretty does" and being impolite or unruly in public was never allowed. Our whole family travels a great deal and we always take the children with us and we don't have to worry about disrupting others when we enjoy meals out and other activities where the public is invited.

Aug 3, 2011 7:19 PM Guest melissa  says:
As the mother of two teens, I have been through the days of taking youngsters out to restaurants.  Sometimes taking them with us was the only way we could go out to dinner.  So , I empathize with those who have to take their kids with them.  I appreciate the grace given to me by other patrons during those times. That said, I am in complete favor of having separate flights, dining hours, and theatre showings.  I never wanted my children to be a distraction to those who were out enjoying a date night or couples vacation.  My husband and I treasure our special times out without kids.  We do not want to sit next to a family of young children at dinner on date night despite having been there.  I don not believe this is an act of intolerance.  It is called just wanting a break!
Aug 3, 2011 7:19 PM Guest Christine  says:
I think this is great.  Unfortunately, MANY parents do not properly manage their children.  Even as a parent, I cannot STAND being in any public place where kids are out of control (probably because I'm a teacher   )   I think adults should have opportunities to be free of annoying children.  Yes, children are a blessing from the Lord, BUT we're supposed to "train them up".   When my teenagers were small, I received many compliments in planes & restaurants from older people on how well-behaved my boys were.  I came to realize this was because so many parents made their kids everyone else's problem. There isn't growing intolerance toward children - if anything, we're TOO tolerant.  People are just frustrated with bad parenting.
Aug 4, 2011 7:19 AM Guest Christine  says:
I agree with Agnes, children are a blessing from God but it would be nice to have sections for adults only!  A few years ago I took my elderly mother out to have a nice dinner.  We were seated next to two young mothers with a couple of small children.  These kids would let out  blood curdling screams through out the meal and each time that happened my mother was startled and would jump.  Between the screams they were very loud so we weren't able to carry on a conversation.  I have never gone back to that restaurant!  My mother is gone now and that was a evening that should of been a special time with her and it wasn't!
Aug 4, 2011 7:21 AM Guest Camille  says in response to Sarabeth:
I agree with you, Sarabeth.  It's a fine line.  I guess it depends.  We don't take our younger children to restaurants that are nicer -- we stick to the Red Robins and such.  I mean, let's face it, as parents WE don't enjoy our screaming children, either.  But this whole no children rule really, really irks me. When did children become such a nuisance to society at large? Particularly a society that wants all the perks of a big gov't (social security, Medicare, etc) -- if we don't have kids, there won't be another generation to pay for it all!  And do other patrons and owners really think we enjoy our children having a fit? Sometimes we have to suck it up and deal.  Flying with little kids cross country is less than fun, but we endure it so they can know their cousins, aunts, uncles and grandparents!  I'm afraid of the ramifications of an anti-child society.
Aug 4, 2011 7:25 AM Guest Linda H.  says:

I LOVE children.  The problem is not children but parents with entitlement attitudes.  I went to the movies two nights ago at the IMAX; paid $16 apiece for my husband and myself.  Could NOT believe a family came in with a baby!  What parent with any kind of consideration would bring a baby to a movie theater with intensive scenes and LOUD sound effects!  The movie was 8:30 at night and lasted until 11:30.  Right in the middle of an intense scene the baby started crying.  The father took the baby out but stood in the aisle leading outside so he could still watch - needless to say, the baby was still heard.  We could not afford to pay a sitter when our children were small, so we stayed home until they were old enough to know how to behave themselves.  There are restaurants catering to children; in our area even a movie theater catering to families with children.  Babies are not small that long; it will not kill anyone to wait until they are older to go out.

 

A couple of years ago we went to a restaurant for my husband's birthday.  There was a family there after 8pm to get dinner; the 18-2yr old with them had not eaten yet and needless to say was screaming the entire time we were there.  They were 2 feet away.  The parents did NOTHING (which isn't surprising if they hadn't fed her until after 8 at night!). 

 

I have no problem with a child crying in a store unless the parent is ignoring the screaming to the detriment of others.  When my children were small if they wouldn't stop screaming I would take them outside and deal with it.  I realize there are times when that is not possible (sick child and getting medicine or some such situation) but the current thought is "you have to put up with my brat whether you like it or not!"  We need to have more consideration for other people!

Aug 4, 2011 7:26 AM Guest Camille  says in response to Monique T.:
This is true, but it's limed to 8 kids!  What do you do when you show up and it's full? You can't go in with them.... I think this is just a ploy by Whole Foods to spin the news of "child free" in a positive tone.
Aug 3, 2011 7:22 PM Guest Esther  says:
I really doubt this will become a "trend".  Maybe some places will do it, but most will not.  There are a lot of parents who will stay at home if they can't take their kids to a restaurant.  A lot of money has gone into marketing towards families with children.  But I can understand the annoyance with poorly behaved children and their parents.  You really can't escape them anymore.  They're everywhere: parks, pools, restaurants, stores, malls, hotels, schools, a relative's home (LOL), and even church.  I wish more employees/managers would take an assertive position with these folks to either control their kids or leave the premises.  I was brought up "old school" and that's how I'm raising my own children.  Kids have to have a "healthy fear/respect" of authority instilled in them early on and a sense that their behavior affects others.  It is a sin to spoil children and not discipline them for misbehavior.  It is wrong to raise them to be selfish and self-serving.
Aug 4, 2011 7:27 AM Guest Gloria H.  says:
If a restaurant does not want to have children dine there, that is entirely at their discretion since they do OWN the business. Personally, I enjoy children but do not appreciate having my meal disturbed by an unhappy child.  If the parents have the good sense toi take them out of the restaurant when they misbehave, that is the crux of the matter.  I do not see why parents would want to take children with a very short attention span to a fine restaurant where everyone would need to wait on their food.  Generally when children get hungry they cannot wait long to eat.  "Trading off" with another couple/family works well if you can do that.
Aug 3, 2011 7:22 PM Guest Jean  says:
I am a mom with 5 children ages, 14 to 22.   I believe Children are a blessing.....but i totally agree with the idea of Adult only restaurants and movie theaters.  We always took our children everywhere when they were young and taught them how to behave in public places.  It was a challenge when they were all 10 and under, but we managed to let them know what kind of behavior we expected before we reached our destination or event.  There were a few times that we had to leave early from an event or store so they would know I was following through with what I had said.  This way the next time we did something fun as a family, we just reminded them that we would like them to behave and then we can stay and have lots of fun, otherwise we will have to leave again.  It usually only takes a few times of leaving something fun, and they get the idea. I tried to teach them to think of other people and have an "others" first thinking, so they would understand that screaming and running around was rude to others trying to pay attention.  I have noticed in the past few years that children are so rude in public places............2 times recently we had young toddlers at the movie theater running around and screaming and banging peoples chairs.  No one said anything, because if you do, the parents will get mad at you.  We asked the theater manager when the movie was over, and they told us if that happens again to go to the ticket office and they will give us a free ticket for another movie.  No mention of asking the children to STOP.  Also,  we went out to dinner on a date night, and the child in the booth next to us was a about 5 years old.  He was grabbing the seat behind my husband and turning around and looking at us, etc.....it was a nicer italian restaurant, not a family type place.  Anyway,  when we go out to Dinner alone, we would prefer not to have a child right next to us yelling and fussing etc.....   So, i think i would like to have an all adult movie and all adult restaurant.   I love being around children, but not when they disrupt and are rude and No adult teaches them to behave, or even tries.   It is not the child's fault, but the adults.
Aug 3, 2011 7:22 PM Guest Sharon  says:

I love kids--I have 3 adult children of my own, 7 grandchildren, and have taught school for over 31 years.  I think this ruling by some establishments is a response to the lack of proper parenting that encourages proper behavior and respect for others.  This seems to be lacking in all of society to a large degree--adults and children, as well.  It is sad to see and to be a part of.

 

I know it is possible to raise children that other people like to be around--we did.  Our daughter and son-in-law are model Christian parents who parent lovingly and with discipline.  They parent in such a way that the little boys can make choices that will help them be more sensitive to others and responsible as they mature.

 

It is way to easy to succomb to selfishness and not take the time to 'train up a child in the way that he/she should go'.  How many times do you hear a parent say, "That's not appropriate!", for instance?  Our lack of SELF-discipline shows itself in the permissiveness so rampant in our society.  You can't give what you don't have.  Discipline is just one of those.  Children want established perameters and parents need to give children what they need.  Society would respond positively, we'd see.

 

Children are a gift to be carefully and prayerfully treasured!

Aug 4, 2011 7:31 AM Guest Ann B.  says in response to Susan:
I agree with Susan.  Also remembering that tired children usually get cross so take them out at a reasonable time when they are rested and better able to control their emotions.  Bedtime or naptime are not good times to take children out in public.  You are just asking for trouble.  Young children cry easily when they are not rested.  I see children dragged from place to place when they should be at home in bed.  Same is true for traveling in public.  Try to schedule flights during a time when your child is easier to handle.
Aug 3, 2011 7:22 PM Guest Janis  says:

I love kids, love, love love them, however, there is a time and place, and i agree that it's the bad parenting that's driving this.  For example, at church, there are bright, cheerful, state of the art, well staffed kids areas with worship and interactive lessons geared for all ages, but consistently, parents let their kids decide where they would like to go, what they would like to do, where they would like to run, and what they would like to say - duing the services - greatly disrupting others.  It would be nice to sometimes have separate areas on planes, in restaurants, and even in church if kids services are provided.  There are plenty of opportunities for family activities, but an hour or two apart sometimes would give everyone a break.

Aug 4, 2011 7:33 AM Guest MaryAnn  says:
I think there is a danger to this because removing children from places where one has to learn self-control is detrimental to their learning curve in regards to behavior.  There is so much pressure, however to give kids free rein to do as they please and parents ought not use any corporal punishment or even stern commands/discipline to get them back in line.  But then you have to be cautious because a lot of churches put kids in children's church but don't really have a curriculum to be learning and it is basically a babysitting situation...the flip side is that it is truly hard to hear and concentrate in the service with a wiggly child.  Do a survey widget and send it to us.
Aug 3, 2011 7:22 PM Guest Leslie  says:

I have four kids, one grown, two in college and one still at home.  I homeschooled them through their elementary school years.  Honestly, babies & toddlers can be quite unpredictable, but older kids, if properly disciplined, will behave anywhere.  One of the rules I learned when they were younger was that if they were not tired & hungry, they usually did what they were supposed to do.  Too many parents don't know how to train their kids.  I was on a plane yesterday with many such kiddos...and there was no way to get away from them!

 

On the other hand, I saw an article in our local paper today that showed a picture from a local high-end shopping mall.  It showed a picture of a couple hundred moms and their children, all at the mall to watch a performance held there just for the kids.  Trust me...that mall had the right idea.  Hold a show for the kids, and the moms (and their money) will come.  Those moms can shop during the day when everyone else is at work.

 

I truly think that markets develop as they're needed.  If there are more childless families, then there will be restaurants, etc. that start to accomodate them.  But there will always be fast food places, etc. that will market themselves to the kids.  Thank goodness.

Aug 3, 2011 7:22 PM Guest Jeff  says:
To many parents have refused to make their kids behave. Kids are allowed to run around the restaurants. I have friends that do this, and I will not go out with them. I once caught a kid licking the tops of the salt shakers on every unoccupied table. When I said something to the parent, I was told to mind my own business. It is truly disgusting what parents allow their kids to do while out. Bad parenting is what has caused this, don't blame businesses.
Aug 4, 2011 7:35 AM Guest Colleen H.  says:
I think there are times and places where it is appropriate for adults to be able to go somewhere without children such as a concert or grown up movie, BUT, banning children from grocery stores and family oriented restuarants is just sad and hopefully unacceptable.  I am believing that these family benefitted businesses such as grocery stores, restuarants and others, will find out that they dollars are more well spent when the entire family is included.  It is actually ridiculous to me, to think that a smart business owner of these types of places would think this will bring them more profit.  It is sad that a society is rudely pointing in that direction.  Children should be taught to behave appropriately in public places no matter what the circumstance.  And if they can't behave, then the parents need to remove them (even I myself have to struggle wth this one at times).  I think we need to rethink how this all takes place in our society.  The people who snub their noses at families and children are very sad and broken people indeed.
Aug 3, 2011 7:23 PM Guest Brett  says:

As far as the recent one goes....this is America and the owner has the right to run his buisness as he sees fit to do. It has been shown to actually improve buisness in some cases. My two kids have been going out to eat ALL their lives just for that reason....it is normal for them and they act very well but they are still kids and thats OK. Sure, I would like to go to a child free place once in awhile because I have been bothered by unrulely children too.

Aug 3, 2011 7:23 PM Guest Sharon  says in response to Darlene:
"Amen!", Darlene.
Aug 3, 2011 7:23 PM Guest Vaune  says:

We have 4 children who are almost gorwn, and of course they are a blessing!  I think that the trend toward 'childless' atmosphere has more to do with parents who do not control or discipline their children.  I did not like to pay for a sitter and an expensive meal on a date night with my husband, only to have toddlers running around my table.  I flew often with all 4 kids by myself, and while they were not eprfect, if they did do something that was rude or annoying, they had to apologize and stop the behavior.  If I were paying the money for a first class ticket, I would be very frustrated if I sat next to a crying baby, even though I know that babies can't help it.  I like the idea of 'child free' times.  I think from a business sense it would be nice, especially if it isn't 100% child free -that way singles and families can enjoy.  I think it is a sad commentary that today's parents have such an entitlement attitude that rude and obnoxious behavior is not stopped because 1)No one else tells my children what to do, 2) They are just being kids, 3) they are showing their creativeness or joyfulness, 4) Too much pressure will kil their self-esteem, 5) The parents don't want their kids to be mad at them, 6) If they try to reprimand them they will throw a huge temper tantrum,.............and the list goes on.  What ever happened to courtesy and manners and going out of your way to making sure others were enjoying themselves?

Aug 3, 2011 7:23 PM Guest Jeff  says:
The issue is not the children - the issue is the parents of the children who will not/cannot control them.  If a business can create a niche for themselves through the creation of a quiet, chaos-free, friendly environment without poorly behaved parents/caregivers, more power to them!  I know I would frequent their establishment all other things being equal.
Aug 3, 2011 7:23 PM Guest Tom  says:
It's more a commentary on parenting and the fact that U.S. parents don't make their children behave.  My wife and I, parents of two girls, just went on a much-needed weekend getaway and we were faced with unruly children everywhere.  It certainly didn't recharge our batteries, and we like children very much.  This quote is very applicable today:  "The thing that impresses me the most about America is the way parents obey their children."  King Edward VIII British king 1936 (1894 - 1972)
Aug 3, 2011 7:24 PM Guest Ann  says:
We are in our 70's and have been through children and grandchildren and love them dearly and our children were not allowed to make scenes in public-won't always say the same for the grandchildren. :)  That said we don't eat out often and have had a few meals ruined by some unruly children. However most children do not bother us-I have to say people talking loudly on their cellphones through the whole meal bother us more than children.  We might on a special rare occassion choose a resturant where children were not allowed just to know we would have a quiet peacful meal. I'm sorry to say I have seen adults be as disruptive with a waitress or even the people they are with so I think there just are not guarantees even if children aren't there that you will have a quiet peaceful meal.  Maybe being grandparents we don't get as stressed with the little ones as others might.
Aug 4, 2011 10:46 AM Guest Lee  says:
Children, especially wee-ones are indeed unpredictable, it's the response of the parents to their unpredictability that makes or breaks their being welcome in social circles where dining or movie going , et.al. are taking place.  I recall a flight during which a wee-one cried and cried without let up, as in for a good half hour - forty-five minutes straight, shrill, ear-splitting cries.  The mother explained that the child's ears were hurting him due to the change in cabin pressure.  Rather than having a plane load of angry passengers, there were several who crowded around the mother and child offering assistance.  I have also been shopping in stores in which a child was screaming for want of treat or the like and the parent just ignored the need of the child (some discipline) as well as consideration for other shoppers.  I think these restaurateurs were just trying to compensate for the poor parenting of some of their patrons and the need to cater to the enjoyment of the rest.  Nothing wrong with that stand.
Aug 4, 2011 10:41 AM Guest Greer J.  says:
I love children and I do enjoy seeing them in restaurants with their families.  I love my grandsons very much.  However, I know all too well what it is like to have other guests turn and give you and the parents an angry look or one of "please...we can't take this anymore".  My daughter and her husband stubbornly refused to do anything about their 3 year old who was acting out to get the parents undivided attention.  He's a darling child and very smart.  Others have rights too.  Just as we would not tolerate screaming neighbors, we should not be expected to have other guests disrupting our paid time in restaurants.  I don't believe in a mass ban on children.  Adults can be just as obnoxious.  However, I do think that any guest who cannot be quiet and polite in a restaurant that serves the public should be asked to leave and that includes a parent who will not willingly quiet a child.  If they are newborn and won't quiet from simple rocking or going for a little walk in the stroller; its best to pack it up and go home.  Next time get a sitter or switch off with other parents for an evening out.
Aug 4, 2011 10:47 AM Guest wesley b.  says:
this is more of the cultural war.first men were attack,woman being deceived about men,and now the children.today there are those who treat dogs like kids,but they don.t won,t the responsiblity of having kids.the whole family is under assult.but JESUS IS LORD! PERIOD! HE HAS THE WHOLE MATTER UNDER CONTROL.
Aug 3, 2011 7:24 PM Guest mimi  says:

Yes kids can be very disruptive when out of control.  Yes, Greg is a parent who respects the space of others.  I think there is a fine line here.  Of course we all need to love children and know that we were once one of them.

 

I do believe that the respect for others is becoming more absent from our society.  I think this is the real issue. There ought to be boundaries for us all.  I think children should be allowed in most places but if they were to get out of control, which they often do, then it is up to the person in charge to take them out and settle them down until they are calm.

 

My son in law used to take his baby daughter out and walk around with her whe she was screaming and crying at a restaurant.  People also do this in church.

 

The children are not the issue, it is the rude, inconsiderate parents or caregivers who need direction.

How about a sign saying "Children are welcome here but please take them out of earshot when they are too loud and noisy and respect others space.  Please return when they have become calm".  Or something like that!

 

Too bad it is not natural for many people to be respectful and use common sense when things are disturbing the peace. As I said, children are not the problem but the adults are!

Aug 3, 2011 7:25 PM Guest Monique  says:

Situations need to be handled in the same way as they would a raucaus adult!  Tolerate a little, then a gentle request, then call the bouncer.

But let's not punish everyone for the wrongs of some.

Yes, I think it's an anti-family attitutude.  No one is complaining about the loud, rude adults.

As a large family, and when I just had littles, I would try to go on the off times, where we'd less likely disturb others.

And parents do need to be told they DO have a right to control their children!  So many messages in our culture tell parents they don't have this right.  And they don't know how anymore.

Let's all be kind to each other. There is the long day with bad news at the dr, the long tirp, the illness .....

Monique

Aug 3, 2011 7:26 PM Guest Misti  says:

I can't help but wonder if these bans are being imposed because parents aren't doing their job. I have two young children - a 1-year-old and 3-year-old. My husband and I don't go to "nice, date-type" restaurants with the kids, because we know our boys might disrupt others. Rather, we choose places that are already a bit noisy, so that any noise our children make blends in. And should our children start to get antsy, I'll take them outside so they can burn off energy.

 

Likewise, we don't take our children to see movies, plays, etc.... b/c we know at their ages, they would be disruptive to others. We also tailor our outtings around naps and eating schedules, so our kids don't act up in public b/c they're tired or hungry. Yeah, we might miss out on doing some things right now, but it's so worth the trade-off of having our wonderful boys.

 

It's sad thatit has come to this, but I think it's a result of lazy, and/or inconsiderate parents vs. it being truly about the kids. Imagine trying to enforce a ban that said, "Lazy parents not allowed."

Aug 3, 2011 7:27 PM Guest Krista  says:
Like most everything in life, it's all about proper balance. However, most affordable restaurants should be family friendly if they want the family customers to continue to patronizing them. Although parents should be monitoring and training their children, many just don't bother nor care to. But just because some don't, should they ruin it for us all? We have an only child and especially when we are traveling (as we often do) he accompanies us to every place we go. Of course that meant we didn't attend certain venues like the theater or movies when he was really young, because we knew he may possibly disturb others. With that said, I do believe there are some places where it would be nice to have a kid free zone, because some parents can't or won't discipline their children properly or they just lack the common sense not to bring them in the first place. However, it would be nice if childcare were offered. As far as the airlines go, well in the first place they pretty much do whatever they want to. We did fly first class when our son was 18 months old and he was fine on the 12 hour flight. But we did work hard to keep him occupied and or satisfied as not to scream and cry. It was so nice to have that extra room when flying as a family. Since they do little to nothing to cater to babies or young children, what do they expect. They sure don't mind charging the mandatory 2 yr. old & up the full fare for their seats though. Still, kids are a natural part of life and we must all learn to deal with unpleasant people no matter how young or old they are. 
Aug 3, 2011 7:27 PM Guest Gary  says:

yes and no do I believe in childless restaurants my point is have a special section for that family  place YES YOU CAN NEVER TELL THE ACTIONS OF CHILDREN BUT FOR RESTAURANT TO DO SUCH A THING IS OUT OF LINE such a time and place for family (sign of the times is coming) we are getting to a point of selfcentered , Heartless people coming of age time

PS restaurants an have special times for family times too. morning,afternoon, or evening time slots...:)

Aug 3, 2011 7:27 PM Guest Judy  says:

I think a long time ago people knew better than bring a small child to a very nice restaurant, and if they did, would remove the child immediately if they acted up.  Parents now tend to see their kids as the center of the universe and are oblivious to the other paying customers. 

 

This trend is about kids not behaving in public, not intolerance of children in general.

Aug 4, 2011 11:13 AM Guest Arlene M.  says in response to Rise:

I love children.  I teach preschoolers with special needs, so I have the best of both worlds:  I can devote myself to teaching and loving children as my work but then as a single woman I can leave and be free to pursue other interests without the 24/7 responsibility and demands of parenthood.  I have definitely noticed that it is true that sometimes parents/caretakers get really involved with what they are doing and seem to be unaware that their children are capable of potentially dangerous behavior.  For a period of time I was going to a Dunkin Donuts to relax and work on a project, and on several occasions I noticed that small children were headed toward the door or toward another dangerous place.  I had to call out to the parents so they would run after their children!  My project happened to be art-related so I wound up giving the children some paper and some pencil crayons to keep them occupied.  I was very concerned about the children, but I didn't mind the interruption.  In fact, I rather enjoyed it. But I imagine if someone came really stressed out and in need of relaxation, this would have been very disturbing.

 

Maybe if a restaurant is large enough to have more than one section it could be sectioned off to a "Child Friendly" area, where families with small children could go and there could be paper and crayons provided, and a "Child-Free" area where people who would find the behavior of small children disturbing could have the quiet they are seeking.  If a married couple with a family needed a to get away for a "date night" and some adult conversation, I can certainly understand that they wouldn't want to find themselves in an area where there were children who were loud and whose behavior was out of control.

 

A "Childless Restaurant" policy across the board would NOT be a good idea, and children do need to learn how to behave in public places.  But sectioning off parts of the restaurant (perhaps something akin to what they used to do for "smoking" and "non-smoking") might not be a bad idea.

 

I get the drift and definitely agree that an overall lack of warmth toward children is not a good thing.  Sometimes being around children is just what the Divine Physician prescribes--to open the heart, to help people realize that the world doesn't just revolve around themselves and their issues, and to help all of us see the world with a greater sense of wonder.  As adults we teach children, but sometimes it is also the other way around.  At least JESUS seemed to think so, when we read the Gospel.

Aug 3, 2011 7:29 PM Guest Lin  says:

I personally do not have children, but both my brother and sister do and it is all in how you raise them.  You have TO TEACH THEM TO BEHAVE AND BE QUIET when out in public places like restaurants, church etc... and they need to be disciplined.    My parents taught us to behave and disciplined us and we behaved.  We were never allowed to talk thru a church service as so many kids do today, it is hard for some people to even concentrate on the Pastors words when you have someone chattering behind you or in front of you.

Back then our parents rarely took us out to eat as it just wasn't done back then, it was an adult treat to go out to dinner as it was expensive.  Nowadays I think dates and going out are the norm.  Parents come home from work tired and just do not want to deal with the kids or cooking so they go out.  Kids run rampant thru restaurants, screaming, screeching etc...  My Mom, sister and I were out one Saturday for brunch and their was a couple behind us with a boy about 3 or 4 years old who screeched and whined at the top of his lungs and the parents just sat there talking and did nothing.  The entire room was distribed and after about 20 minutes 3 separate tables asked the manager if he could do something with them as we could not even talk.  It was Mom's birthday so we were very disappointed in the whole experience.  I am all for childless restaurants and childless movie times, etc... I personally do not like to go out and have screaming kids that no one pays attention to, disciplines or consoles.  I love kids but they need to have parents who teach them and notice them and pay attention to them, they are the future of our world.  If they have childless places then they will also have child and parent places for them to go to.

Aug 3, 2011 7:29 PM Guest Lucene  says in response to Susan:
AMEN to this!  I think the drive for "childless" environments has come as a recourse to untrained, unruly children in public.  Working in a retail environment, I could write a book about what parents should teach their children about proper public behavior.  If we would not have become an "undisciplined" culture, I don't think "childless" environments would even be an issue.
Aug 3, 2011 7:31 PM Guest Phil  says:

I would suggest that a part of the problem is that parents today seldom discipline their children and teach them not to cry without cause.  Sure this is tricky, but interestingly enough the same culture that does not want to hear children cry is the culture that does not allow appropriate discipline in many cases.

 

Just some thoughts.  If we believe in freedom and freedom for businesses to do as they please, then perhaps they should have the right to restrict children.  Of course if enough people dislike this, like the fiddler, then businesses might change.

Aug 3, 2011 7:31 PM Guest Liana  says:
I find it interesting that this subject came up in this email.  Just like some of the other comments.  My husband and I only go out to dinner, just the two of us, once every 2-3 months.  We usually choose as "finer" restaurant (no hamburger on the menu).  I wear a dress and he has a nice shirt and dress pants.  We did this just last Thursday.  As we waited 45 minutes for our table, I commented to him about how many families were there.  Many younger families with younger children. It seems we are seeing this more and more.  We had a coupon for a free appetizer and we shared the Salmon entree.  We enjoyed our time together.  The kids were well behaved, there was just busyness all around us.   The two thoughts that I have on this are:  1)  Do these young families eat out like this all the time at expensive, fine restaurants.  Will these young children know what a special treat is, if they are eating at these establishments on an everyday basis?  How are the parents paying for these fine meals - credit cards?  Even if they can afford it, are they putting money back for a lay-off, etc.?   2)  What happened to a restaurant that you fixed up to go, making it a special event - not an everyday event?  A restaurant that is quiet, calm, intimet.  We love our two children, enjoy conversation with them at meal time and otherwise.  A time for a couple to connect and not just hear what each other has to say, but how they feel about what they are saying is an important thing.  A family restaurant should be just that.  A finer, more intement restaurant should be just that.
Aug 3, 2011 7:31 PM Guest Melodie  says:

My opinion on this is it should be up to the owner of the restaurant.  If his clientele wants this, I see nothing wrong with changing that.  There is enough in our society that caters to children so why not cater to adults as well.  It's all about freedom of choice in our society.  We can choose how we run our businesses as long as it's ethical and even then we can choose to be unethical but we will suffer the consequences.

In a free market society which we are supposed to be, but that is on the chopping block but that's another topic.  Anyway, the market dictates the demand.  And if allowed to flourish it will all come out right.  My son just took his kids to Great Wolf, all catered to children.  So if you don't want to be around kids you wouldn't go there.  In our country, it's all about freedom.  Freedom to choose. 

thanks.

Aug 3, 2011 7:32 PM Guest Nohea  says:

I think it is brave of businesses to do that because a lot of people do take their children with them almost to everywhere. But, in America baby boomers are getting older and there a lot more older people rather than younger people.  Older people have less patience for children and they have more expendable income so I think this is just the beginning and more businesses will follow suit.

Aug 3, 2011 7:32 PM Guest Debbie  says:

Unfortunately, political correctness has led to not being able to effectively discipline your child, which, I think, has led in part to this new trend.  Also, parents tend to not have proper schedules and, therefore, the child is sometimes tired or bored.  This being said, I think that children are a blessing from the Lord and they should be taught how to behave in public, which you can't do if they're banned.

Aug 3, 2011 7:33 PM Guest Lisa  says:
I agree and know that children are a gift from God.  That said, I taught my children how to behave in public, and when they were too young to sit still, they had plenty of activities and treats to keep them happy while we ate our food.  We were careful to not go when they were tired and cranky, and at hours when there were less people.  I would never tolerate my kids standing up on the seats and looking at the people behind us, or running around with waiters dodging them.  Neither would I allow them to shriek or otherwise make a nuisance of themselves.  We received nothing but compliments on all kids over the years.  The oldest is 21 and the youngest 10; we still get compliments on the 10 year old's manners to this day.  They were not threatened nor beaten into compliance, but knew what was appropriate for where.  Running around in a playground?  Yes.  In a restaurant?  No.  I am very unhappy to have us spend our few extra dollars on a restaurant only to be held captive by others' miserably behaving children who obviously tune out the 25 times the parent has told little Johnny to stop that right now.  As someone who works around children, I see more and more parents kowtowing to their children, or just plain lacking good parental skills.  I say more power to those businesses that won't put up with it.  Of course, not all businesses will do this so there will always be a choice.  Should we give a parent grace who might be at the end of their ropes and we don't know their circumstances?  Sure.  Tolerate 45 minutes of screaming and running around or otherwise being a nuisance?  Unnecessary.  It is definitely about the parents, more so than the kids, but I tend to think one is a reflection of the other as I have found out after 16+ years of working with youth and kids....
Aug 3, 2011 7:33 PM Guest Denise  says:
I too believe that "Children are a blessing of the Lord" but the Bible also exhorts parents to discipline their children.  Sometimes this means the parent is inconvenienced by having to remove their screaming or otherwise out-of-control child from the premises not only out of consideration for others (also biblical) but sometimes also for safety reasons.  My now grown children began to learn from very early ages what behavior was appropriate in public and what the consequences - for better or worse - would be.  The result were children that were a pleasure to be around no matter where we were and compliments from initially skepital patrons, sales people, servers, friends etc...  Was it difficult?  Of course!  There were times when I wanted to cry myself.  It takes a lot of time and energy to properly discipline children but it is sooo worth it.  Unfortunately, too many parents turn a blind eye or are to self absorbed to take the time or consider the needs of others which is why we are beginning to see "child-free" zones.
Aug 3, 2011 7:34 PM Guest Julie  says:
Children are absolutely a blessing from our LORD.  You asked if this is a sign that people are getting more intolerant of children.  That may be and I believe this to be very sad if that is the case, but more than anything I think people are growing more intolerant of bratty children.  My husband and I have two grown children and now four beautiful grandchildren.  When my kids had a melt down or I perceived that was going to happen I would leave the place of business as quickly as we were able.  (Yes, on an airplane that is impossible.) Sometimes it was because they were just acting bratty and sometimes it was because I pushed them to "hang in there" for too long.  Either way it was always my responsibility to be in charge.   I never expected others to just put up with it.  I always felt this was a rude attitude to take.  However, I absolutely have a great deal of compassion on parents whenever their children act out.  We must remember that most parents don't set out for the day hoping their children will misbehave so that they and everyone else around them will be miserable.  We should be more patient and kind to those parents and their little ones; God certainly is with me whenever I throw a temper tantrum.  Oh, and just maybe we might stop to offer a prayer for the family.  Raising kids is the hardest job ever!!!
Aug 4, 2011 7:43 AM Guest Peter K.  says:
I see childless restaurants as a legitimate, common-sense response to a real 'problem', and not the anti-quiver-full-of-blessings-from-the-Lord issue that Focus on the Family seems to be making it out to be.
Aug 4, 2011 7:44 AM Guest Cinders R.  says:

Perhaps this trend is due to a combination of factors.  The mob of baby-boomers (I'm one of them) is gradually entering their senior years and perhaps many of them are asking for, even demanding, childless dining and motion picture peace.  Although many (most?) boomers have grandchildren, they often like to choose the time spent with them.  And I think this tendency is somewhat selfish- "I've done my time raising kids and now I want my space and leisure when I want them."  Maybe businesses realize on what side their bread is buttered and wish to accommodate the wishes of this large (moneyed?) group.

 

Other bunches who may have similar desires for peace in public places are couples who have opted not to have children and singles, as well as the very elderly.

 

There is also the possibility that, with abortion so common, children have become less valued, barely tolerated and/or despised by some people.

 

Also, having reaped the consequences of permissive child rearing, are there more children out of control, loud, obnoxious, etc., in public places than there once were?

 

Personally, I love children (for 23 years, I've been a public school bus driver in our rural area) and prayed for grandchildren.  Watch out when you do that; we were blessed with 6 (3 boys & 3 girls) in 4 years!

Aug 3, 2011 7:35 PM Guest lois  says in response to Greg:

Please everyone be careful about judging others harshly. My first born was the most compliant and well behaved child I have ever seen.  I used to be appalled by parents whose kids were screaming in the grocery store or running into people in restaurants.  We were very proud of ourselves and couldn't believe all the parents who didn't control their their children!  Then we had our second.  Oh man did we understand what those other parents were going through because now it was our child screaming in the grocery store.  I agree that many parents don't want to grow up and be the parents however many others have been blessed with kids that are on the noncompliant end of the spectrum.  If God wanted to teach me humility it worked.

I think it's fine to not allow kids in restaurants - unruly kids don't bother me but they do bother other people.

Aug 3, 2011 7:35 PM Guest Raquel  says:

Jim, I have my own business selling beauty products in women's homes through parties.  One of my rules is "no children allowed". This is not because I dislike children but because I am there to make a profit.

 

I have found that the presence of children is 1. a distraction from my sales presentation,  2. a change from the atmosphere of the event that I am trying to create and 3. a hurdle to hold to my commitment to everybody to end the presentation on time while giving everyone the attention they deserve (children present usually cause a delay).

 

I'd like to emphasize that this was a "business decision".   It's not the children's fault that they don't behave like adults - they're just behaving as they are... as "children".  Is it exclusionary?  Absolutely.  This business decision has come with a cost: the cost of not selling to women who don't meet the qualification at the event.  Should I choose to include these women in my market, it's my job to be creative to reach them.

 

Similar to the movie theaters, to be inclusionary, I provide the same service for moms with children by having events where children are "ok".  Again, it's a business decision to reach that market segment.

 

Now, while this is a business decision, the reaction by the women is typically an understanding that their children are not allowed.  No woman has come to my events upset that I didn't want her children there.  Rather, there is an appreciative attitude that, for that moment in their lives, it's "all about them" for a change.  I like to think that I am giving them a great service and that they're getting the full attention they deserve.

Aug 4, 2011 7:50 AM Guest Lisa A.  says:

I do agree that there is a time & place for everything including children. Unfortunately parental discernment about these no brainer issues is at an all time low. It seems as if parents in this time period have made the child the focas of everything resulting in an unruly child (christians are some of the biggest offenders) and they are everywhere! Places that you can count on to be peaceful when you want a quite night out are long overdue! Also movie theaters that have adult viewing times is a great idea for christian couples who want a clean show to go to on date night without having a screaming kid sit near you and ruin the movie.There are more times that are appropriate for children to go to the theater.

Aug 3, 2011 7:36 PM Guest Terri  says:
I saw some of the people interviewed on t.v. It wasn't so much that they don't tolerate children well, it was more that the parents of the unruly children would ignore management when they were asked to step outside with the screaming child so that others could dine in peace. It's a matter of being able to control the atmosphere somewhat. Some parents are just clueless to the comfort of others...for example..in Walmart there was a woman with a screaming child...just walking around with the daughter screaming behind her...and she kept telling the girl "no, I am NOT going to pick you up, and we are not leaving this store until you stop screaming...you have to learn to behave in public"...seriously?!?! I came in on the last 30 minutes of it...I think it's that sort of parenting that is causing this. The parent's are really the ones being banned.
Aug 3, 2011 7:37 PM Guest Sissy  says:

While it does seem that society as a whole is becoming less friendly to children, we would be wise to remember that society has also become less friendly to parents.  When I was young, if I misbehaved in a store or restaurant, I got a warning or two first, then some yelling, and if I still didn't comply, my Mom spanked me right there in front of everyone.  But these days, you can't even threaten your kid with a spanking when you get home, for fear that someone might overhear and call the cops on you for child abuse.  I have no children of my own, but I've watched my mom struggle to discipline my much-more-headstrong little brother in public since standards have become so ridiculous.

Parents need to step up to the plate and be parents, but the society has to allow the parents to do just that, also.  I always feel sorry for parents with unruly kids who are trying to control them, but seem to have their hands tied.

Aug 3, 2011 7:37 PM Guest Marilyn K  says:

I agree with the majority of the commenters who believe the fault to be with the parenting, not the children.  Those of us with children and grandchildren can certainly tell the difference between an undisciplined child and a temporarily upset child for whom we obviously feel sympathy.  When my husband and I are out in public and see well-behaved children, I often make it a point to compliment the parents.  Frankly, I'd be afraid to comment to most parents of disruptive children.  There are things that parents must (or at least, should) give up when raising small children--for most people, that is only for a few years.

 

I'd like to tell an amusing story.  My daughter drove to another state with her four children and a niece and nephew (13, 13, 10, 10, 8 and 7.)  They stopped at Braum's for dinner and a man at the next table asked her if all the children were hers. After she explained, he responded, "Is there something wrong with them?"  Fortunately, she realized that he was simply unused to seeing so many well-behaved children--and rather tactless about his remark.

Aug 3, 2011 7:38 PM Guest Alice  says:
I agree with Agnes. Many children do not behave well and their parents think they are cute misbehaving so having a nice place to eat out on a date without children is great.
Aug 3, 2011 7:39 PM Guest Pat  says:

When our children (3 boys within 3 years) were young, if one of them made a noise that would bother anyone they were immediately taken out of the area if they would not stop.  They were not returned until their behaviour was acceptable.  This is only common politeness.

 

We have often gone into a restraurent and requested smoke free and children free because so many time if we do not we get a screaming child hanging over there seat screaming in our ears while the parents think it is cute.  Actually we should ask for smoke free and stupid parents free because it is not the child as much as the rudeness and stupitity of the parents that is the problem. We love children but we also know the difference between the cry of a spoiled rotten child, a tired child, a sick child and a child that likes to hear themself scream.  The tired and sick child should be taken home and taken care of properly. There again a parenting problem, having them out when they should not be out.  The spoiled brat should be taken care of by being removed and I would like to sugest something be done to the child that most people would not do now a days but would help,   But at the  least they should remove the child from the  area where other people are and not allow  innocent people to suffer the consequences of the parents poor parenting skills.   Like I said my husband and I love children but their is definately a difference in why children act so poorly in public and until the parents can get their act together others should not be forced to pay good money at a restaurant or movie theater etc. to have a horrible experience.

Aug 3, 2011 7:39 PM Guest Sarie  says:
I love children, too, just as many have posted here. All I can say is whenever my husband and I have been invited to a social gathering where children were not invited (welcomed) we did NOT attend. I really don't like being told that my children cannot be with me if I so desire. I believe I know when an event is or is not appropriate for small children.
Aug 4, 2011 11:19 AM Guest Carrie S  says:
I agree with Roger.  Let this be an issue of there simply being a market for child free zones.  While I do believe we could all stand to help a parent out with a kind smile or offer assistance more often, our society is being trained to not "interfere".  I have 4 children - each 20 months apart.  I remember the difficulty.  HOWEVER, I quickly learned to shop in the wee morning hours for groceries while husband could stay home with them.  Also, because husband's family lives in Europe, we used to fly often.  It was exhausting trying to keep kids quiet and teaching them to respect surroundings, but they did and many people were quick to tell us thank you for working so hard.  One elderly gentleman even asked to help hold a baby for me.  He enjoyed (maybe just pretended to?) her while I tried to deal with another child.  Most people were very kind to me and I believe it was because they saw that I was WORKING on it.  I don't believe this is an issue of our society not appreciating children (just calculate how much money taxpayers are willing to throw the ed. system), rather it is a backlash on selfish people who don't seem to take consideration for others (adults/children alike). Let's face it, most children are MISERABLE in adult appropriate environments.  Children shouldn't have to be expected to behave like adults - so if you can help it, don't abuse them by forcing them to.
Aug 4, 2011 11:19 AM Guest Joe H  says:
I think Darlene at 5:54 PM has it exactly right.  This is a statement about todays parents more so than about todays children.  Everyone I know appreciates well behaved children and enjoys being around such children.  Remember,  todays parents have it extremely hard in the sense that the culture today prohibits the teaching of immediate cause and effect with respect to rearing children.
Aug 4, 2011 11:38 AM Guest Fred R  says:

I hate to see/hear of this practice ... with parents not teaching children to behave in public places (or at home), I can understand the pressure business owners are experiencing these days! Just another example of unruly and misbehaving children! I'm a little surprised that they limit it to 6 and under! I've seen a lot of 8 and 10 year-old kids causing noise and behavior problems in public places! Especially in department stores; running around; knocking displays over; and, just otherwise being disrespectful and obnoxious! I have no problem with "children just being children", but I also want to see parents correcting and dealing with bad behavior!

 

Pretty soon, this practice may make it's way to "the church"! Some parents need to begin "parenting" and not just being "friends" with their children!

Aug 4, 2011 11:38 AM Guest Cindee N  says:
If  a business wants to ban kids they should be allowed to do that.  Capitalism at work. Fine with me. If the market will sustain the  business then great. If not, maybe they will change their minds and  decide differently.  Those who want a child-free experience will spend  their money there and those w/children will patronize other businesses.  Businesses shouldn't be required to serve anybody.
Aug 3, 2011 7:42 PM Guest M.J.  says:
When I was a young mother/homemaker, my husband and I enjoyed when we could get away without the kids. It was a much needed break. If we had the opportunity to choose a restaurant that did not allow children, you bet we would have gone there! That doesn't mean we are bad people or that we don't believe children are a blessing. It means we wanted to go out and unwind so when we got home we were better parents!
Aug 4, 2011 9:35 AM Guest Liz H.  says:

I love children.  I do not love parents who don't make their children behave when in upscale restaurants.  I love to have a quiet, romantic meal with my honey and don't appreciate it when out-of-control children ruin that experience.

Thus, I would totally understand a restaurant catering to us frazzled, need-a-date-night parents.

Aug 3, 2011 7:42 PM Guest Deborah  says:
I have four children, all adults now.  When they were small, they were very energetic.  I could never relax and enjoy a restaurant meal with them.  I don't mind well-behaved children in public places, but brats need to be removed.  It is simply common courtesy.  The idea that you can "train" your children to sit still and be quiet is unreasonable, depending on your children's temperament.  Even Dr. Dobson believes this!  He once said that there is something wrong with a toddler who can still and quiet through an entire church service.  He said that preschoolers need to be in a nursery where they can be what they are - children, not small adults!  I have sat in public events where children chattered, rattled keys, and listened to their parents trying to shush them the whole time...all very distracting to me.   Many parents who have compliant or shy children can't understand that parents with strong-willed, outgoing children are not bad parents!  This is Dr. Dobson's own philosophy!
Aug 4, 2011 7:56 AM Guest Kara  says:

This is more like the result of an intolerance for lack of discipline from parents. Our children are now 16, 13, and 9. We have taken them to restaurants since they were babies. If they lost their focus on the things we brought to entertain them, it was time to go. If they started to misbehave, they were removed from the restaurant until they calmed down as they knew it was the only way to go back in to visit with the rest of the group. Baby steps.. a little at a time, and they can tolerate sitting down longer. We've never had a meltdown at a restaurant. Proper behavior comes with proper teaching.

I can completely understand a restaurant having to "parent" as there is such a loss of this in society right now. How many times have you cringed as "that kid" screams again at the top of their lungs, and the "parents" just look away. That aggravates me to the bone as we'd worked so hard at training our kids so others could enjoy being out to dinner with their families and friends.

I don't know if it's "right or wrong," but I understand.

Aug 3, 2011 7:42 PM Guest Molly  says:
I think it is more a sad reflection on our American culture in general.  Manners and etiquette are not taught anymore, instead it is the mentality of " if it feels good do it"  including temper tantrums/meltdowns.  How many times have we watched celebrities have meltdowns and act unruly in public?  How many times have children watched their parents have meltdowns and act unruly in public?  I'm a firm believer in children are to be taught to be "ladies and gentlemen" at all times.  I'm so glad mine and my spouse's parents believed in instilling manners and respect in both of us.  We in turn are teaching our children.  The wild child might be funny in movies but not in real life.
Aug 3, 2011 7:42 PM Guest Teri  says:
I don't think the problem is an intolerance for children in general, it's an intolerance for children who's parents have lack of control over. I have raised four children, in a single parent home and I agree that it is not predictable when an outburst will occur. But dilegently teaching children from very young what will and will not be tolerated is key. No, my children were not by any means perfect. But I never had them scream to the tops of their lungs because they couldn't have something. I work in retail, and see things every day that I do not agree with. Children screaming in the shopping cart while parents talk on their cell phones. parents letting children run wild in the stores, knocking over merchandise and even sometimes breaking it. Children raising their voices to their parents with no rebuttle from the parent. My husband and I were having lunch in a quiet cafe one afternoon, when a young family sat down in the booth behind us. They let their child walk around on the booth which was bumping ours, and even let the child thump my husband in the back of the head, all while laughing at him. Children are not disciplined these days, and I don't mean all parents are letting this happen but there are enough to where people who are tired of it would just like a child free time and place to take care of business.
Aug 3, 2011 7:43 PM Guest Sally  says:

I love children - I have four of my own and hope to have at least as many grandchildren someday.  However, I believe it is the perogative of the business owner to limit his/her clientele to a more mature segment of the population, if they so desire. I think there will always be plenty of family-friendly restaurants to choose from, so I really don't see it as a big deal if some restaurants exclude young children. Personally, I wouldn't want to take a toddler to a fancy restaurant - if I have the opportunity to go out for a nice dinner I would rather be able to relax and enjoy the experience. There are plenty of places I could go if I wanted to take my child with me.

I think people aught to have the opportunity to go out and enjoy a quiet, relaxing meal - so if some restaurant owners want to provide that service I think they should be allowed to.

Aug 3, 2011 7:43 PM Guest Courtney  says in response to Bill:
I have 4 kids and I love them a lot, but I do understand the thought process. It is really annoying when a child is aloud to scream bloody murder in a restaurant. If I as a mother of 4 find it annoying, then think how people without children, who aren't used to it must feel. I also think that some people don't have children cause they know they don't want them and therefore should not be subjected to naughty children against their will only because they wanted to go out to eat. Maybe if parents took their duties more seriously and children weren't allowed to do whatever they please then there wouldn't be a problem.

 

Aug 4, 2011 8:49 AM Guest Paula R.  says:
I have taught children for 31 years and I don't think it is intolerance on the part of the other adults but rather a lack of concern by the parents. I was dining recently in a family oriented restaurant where a child was constantly screaming, not crying just screaming. I asked the parent if she could please help us because we were trying to have a conversation with friends and we could not hear. She was busy texting and started yelling at me to "mind my own business" Prayerfully people are willing to go half way but it takes both sides.
Aug 3, 2011 7:45 PM Guest Michelle  says:
I love taking our children out to dine, and watch movies (most of the time!), however as a mom who is around home a lot, I also love being able to spend date night in an environment that is different from what I am immersed in all week.  Regarding first class travel rules, my husband's firm pays for him to travel first class or business class so that he arrives at the destination fully rested and ready to put in a full day's work.  It makes sense to accommodate this need, and it is less embarrassing if you are a mom with a small child.  Having flown annually to the Southern hemisphere with babies, toddlers and children for 11 years now, we are most at ease in cattle class!
Aug 4, 2011 8:50 AM Guest Barb L.  says:
I am single, never married, no kids.  And while i can get aggravated by a kid hanging over the back of the booth while I'm trying to eat, I really think this is a matter of spiritual warfare and just another attack on the family by the evil one.
Aug 4, 2011 8:51 AM Guest Dan  says:

I remember when my nephew was dealing with a "gag reflex" issue. We were at a Chinese resturant when he staryed to gag and throw up. My brother in law picked him up  as he sprayed the entire table with projectile vomit.   We left a big tip.

 

Out at a resturant again, the child at the table next to us was clearly being defiant to his parents. The father removed the child to the foyer, where he doled out some quick appropriate corpral punishment. Problem solved. Except for the table on the other side that was agast at the "child abuse" they had just witnessed.

It may be best to keep kids at home, lest you be accused of abuse.

Aug 3, 2011 7:46 PM Guest Denny  says:

Recently, I presented a slide show in our church's fellowship hall of a week long family camp we attended last month.  I spent over 30 hours preparing the presentation attended by about 50 people including kids.

About 1/4 the way through the slides, kids around 6 and younger had enough of the photos (of themselves and their families) and began running through the room, yelling, jumping up and down on the stage and chasing each other, having a great time!  I used a microphone to comment on some of the photos but was drowned out by the noise level.  I watched and listened in amazement to the increasing mass chaos and kept wondering when the parents would intervene.  They didn't.  I was amazed how unruly the event became and couldn't wait for the ending.  A few adults later told me they were shocked the parents did nothing to reign in their kids.

This seems to be a trend I'm seeing in public more frequently in movie theaters and malls.  Parents unwilling to teach this isn't a playground where your supposed to yell at the top of your lungs.

Kids are supposed to be loud when playing and chasing each other, only in the right environment.

We can't blame the kids, they're just being kids.  Come on moms and dads.

Aug 4, 2011 8:51 AM Guest Steve G.  says in response to Agnes:
I agree with Agnes. There are plenty of kid-friendly places for families. A quiet night of fine dining with my wife is a wonderful thing...and we do lots of dates nights.
Aug 4, 2011 8:53 AM Guest Tim  says:
I have mixed emotions on this. I can see the points of those of you who would like to have a quiet place to go on a "date night". I do kind of cringe at the remarks that imply that parents aren't disciplining their children. We have been blessed with two disabled children, one on the autism spectrum. They both have melt downs that can be triggered by many things. We try to prepare for such things, but sometimes they happen. When they do, we calmly try to calm them down and, if that doesn't work, we will remove them from the restaurant to calm them down. You won't believe the looks that we have gotten and even the comments that have been made implying that our children are brats or all they need is a good spanking. It really bothers me when I hear of restaurants like the one recently that posted signs that families with disruptive children will be asked to leave. We can argue the reasons why all day, but the fact of the matter is that more children are being diagnosed with autism than ever before. Remember, just because I child is disruptive does not mean that the parents are terrible parents and don't discipline or train their children. Having said that, I do see what you all are saying about a quiet place on "date nights". I just worry that this could become a slippery slope and places would use this as an excuse for intolerance toward disabled children who may not "look" disabled like my children.
Aug 3, 2011 7:47 PM Guest rdh  says:

We have been blessed to have 12 children.  My husband and I have chosen to be "strict" in their upbringing.  Our children are talked to about the fact that not a one of them is the center of the universe.  However, they are also told how the Lord has made no mistake in creating them and placing them into this world.  A balance is required in raising children.  Too often, many modern parents will meet a child's wants, but will neglect his needs.

 

Children need boundaries and will act up when they are not sure of them.  Whenever we've been out in public, at the supermarket, at a concert, or in a restaurant, we usually get comments about how well-behaved our children are.  We are pleased to hear this, but to be honest, we expect good behavior and will give out consequences when our standards aren't met.  There shouldn't be a place where a parent cannot take his or her child, if the parent is "parenting" and the child knows that full well.  We believe we can do no less in trying to honor the Lord.

Aug 3, 2011 7:47 PM Guest jennifer  says:
The problem is not liking children it is parents who refuse to discipline their children.  I have three children and thankfully we have been able to take them places with us as we wanted.  However, it takes pre-planning, making sure children are fed and aware of the expectations.  I have gone places and seen mothers yelling at their children that they will get  lunch later and it's already 1:30 in the afternoon....excuse me, do not put your child ina situation where they can't help but misbehave then get mad when they do.  Adults have to do a better job of setting appropriate boundaries and expectations for proper behavior.  having said that, as a private business owner, if the vendor wants to be child free, that is his right and I defend his right to do so.  
Aug 3, 2011 7:48 PM Guest Sam  says:

Considering how poorly behaved are many families (children and parents) I can understand the desire on the part of some businesses to seek to eliminate that negative experience for their customers. It is all a consequence of our culture turning away from God's word and disregarding His commandments and statutes.

 

Being "family friendly" requires a "friendly" family.

.

Aug 3, 2011 7:50 PM Guest Sarah  says:

I don't think that the issue here is whether it's nice to have children in a restaurant or not. The first issue is that this is unconstitutional. Once upon a time a business owner could put a sign in the window that read "Whites Only". Now they can't. If we condone this behavior we are agreeing that children of any age are not really people. No, no, no!!!

 

Secondly, you can't teach proper manners if they never go out anywhere but places they are allowed to run wild. My children were well behaved in public. They need to mix with adults and see proper behavior modeled. I agree parents are responsible for their children's behavior. The other day I was shopping and the entire store was being abused by a woman who was at a kiosk filling out a application or something while her barely two year old daughter sat in her cart literally screaming at the top of her lungs for at least a half hour (until the mother was finished and ran from the store). It was horrible...and the mother's fault. Children get tired, hungry, thirsty, bored, etc., etc. Parents have to use good parenting judgement, manners and planning. I felt so sorry for the child (and angry with the mother) all the while rushing to get out of ear shot. Let's put the responsibility on the parent. If your little one is having a difficult day then remove them, but don't let anyone rob them of the right to learn and succeed.

 

A better policy would be enforcing signs that read, "Rude parents will not be tolerated and will be asked to leave the store!"

Aug 4, 2011 8:40 AM Guest Andrea B.  says:

That's the world for you.  What's more unfortunate is that many (most) churches fracture families with their junior church, mandatory nursery policy, youth group mentality.  Keeping families together is just about impossible.

Aug 3, 2011 7:51 PM Guest Barb  says:

I used to think my friends were very rude when they asked the waitress not seat them near children.  Over the years, my opinion has changed.  Parents no longer teach their children how to behave in a public place.  If one of my children acted out, they would be taken by the hand or carried out to the car and their behavior "was discussed".  They didn't come back in with us till they were finished crying and could behave themselves. (No we didn't leave them alone in the car.)

What made me change my mind?  One night my adult son and I were having dinner out.  We were seated next to a family complete with 4 children, 2 sets of parents, and grandparents.  One child was acting like a spoiled brat and nothing was right.  That child finally got themselves under control, when the younger child was upset by something.  This child got himself so upset that he ended up vomiting all over their table and ours.  Needless to say, our meal was over.  We left immediately, complained to the cashier and now won't sit near little children in a restaurant!

Aug 3, 2011 7:51 PM Guest Lisa  says:

Where are these child free restaurants?? As a busy stay at home mom with 3 little ones it is such a pleasure to get a quiet evening away with my husband. It is a luxury, financially and with finding extra time. It it a rare treat. It has happened that we have been serenaded at a restaurant by someones howling child, wishing we would have just stayed at home.

It seems that establishments are noticing that parents and caregivers are struggling to find that balance between caring for thier children and for themselves. Some grocery stores have implemented a daycare type location for parents to drop thier busy little ones for an hour while they get some shopping done. It is a treat indeed!

Aug 3, 2011 7:51 PM Guest Cathy  says:
I have no problem with limiting children in certain venues.  I adore children and seldom have problems with their behavior when they are present, however, the trend seems to be to place the child/children at the center of the family versus parents heading the family.  Problems ensue when those adhering to this philosphy expect everyone else to as well.  It all begins and ends with appropriate parenting.
Aug 4, 2011 8:22 AM Guest Tim M  says:
Several people mentioned the root of the problem is parents that don't discipline their children. But there is a root even deeper and that is the tendency of parents to be afraid to spank their children because society might accuse them of abuse. This results in endless rounds of "Johnny stop that" with no consequences, while Johnny terrorizes the restaurant. So restricting children in restaurants is just the fruit of limiting a parent's options through government intervention in the parenting process.
Aug 4, 2011 8:23 AM Guest Dana  says:
While I too think that children are one of the ways the Lord expresses his love for us, I can say I may support the point. It is not that I have anything against a crying baby but too often it is not the crying baby that is the problem. Too many parents are lax these days about their surroundings. I think we are ALL guilty at times. There is a time and a place, if a child is disruptive then take them out. But so many times the parents disregard their childrens needs to be disciplined.
Aug 3, 2011 7:52 PM Guest Mary Beth  says:
I am choosing not to read all of the comments...just adding my opinion here...I might be a bit of an anomaly, but I can honestly not think of one single time in my adult life where a kooky kid being a kid made me upset in a restaurant...and I didn't have my son until I was 28 years old, so that gave me 10 years of adult time to get annoyed...and it didn't happen.  Second anomaly...my son has been going out with us to restaurants for all 5 of his 5 years of life.  We've had numerous comments on how well he behaves, usually by couples who mention that their kids never would have behaved that well for that long.  We even ate at a Hibachi restaurant where you sit at a large table with other people.  One of the people at the other end actually asked about our son who was probably about 2 at the time, "When is that baby going to make some noise!?"  He just sat and talked to us and ate his food.  Exposure is key here.  Kids who don't get out to restaurants much when they're young seem to have a hard time adjusting to the atmosphere.  For us it started with the desire to spend $5 on a kids meal versus $30 for a babysitter.  In the end, I am SO happy that we decided to do this!  Kids are kids though and they can't be expected to behave well all the time...God made us ALL that way
Aug 3, 2011 7:52 PM Guest Kelley  says:
I think this idea is just one more way the enemy will use to destroy the family.  Satan destroys anything that God has created.  We will only continue to see the demise of the family in all areas I think until the return of Christ...but surely we as Christians need to come against these ideas.  We have to find our voices once again.
Aug 3, 2011 7:52 PM Guest Jim  says:

There is no doubt in my mind that "Children are a gift from God." I should know, I hsve been blessed with six of them.  This movement is a result of parents not partenting their children and teaching them respect and appropriate behavior.  They let their children run wild in stores and talk in movie theaters.  They tolerate their kids throwing food at home and behaving like wildmen around the dinner/lunch table at home.  This behavior is then carried over into the public arena too.  I am an expert on this too because I am a teacher and get to witness this behavior regularly at school.

 

If you love your children parent them according to the Word and raise them with respect and reverence.  Use common sense and don't take your three year old to a fancy resaurant for a fancy dinner with your wife.  Get a baby sitter and spend some time just the two of you.  Your child is NOT the center of your life.  God is first, then the marriage and then the family.  Keep it in that order and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Aug 3, 2011 7:53 PM Guest Tina  says:
I think there is a place for child free areas.  Especially today when many parents don't seem to have a clue about how to teach their children how to behave in public.  Why should I pay to see a movie only to have a child or children be so disruptive that I can't enjoy it let alone hear the movie's dialog?   By the way, I have four children of my own...they behave and are well mannered and respectful.
Aug 3, 2011 7:54 PM Guest Evelyn  says:
Unfortunately, not all parents see to it that their children are prepared for social interaction.  It's not the children who are asked to leave, it is the egotistical family that believes the world revolves around them and are not concerned about their neighbors.  From the comments here, there are some parents that see themselves as possible ejectees. That's a shame.  Spend time around a table with multiple generations and be certain how children's manners are displayed.  Invite some people over -- people with children, too -- and enjoy dining together, not just picnic grilling out back.  Prepare children at home for new experiences -- then share them together.
Aug 4, 2011 8:31 AM Wyldfyrfighter Wyldfyrfighter    says:
Childless resturants?  Please...give me a break!   If this is a "bad behavior" issue, there'e a whole lot of adults that should be excluded from eating establishments as well...lets see...how about adults with poor table manners...or who exude body odor...or talk too loudly...who cough and sneeze without putting their napkins over their mouth and noses...or those that use the restrooms and either don't flush or leave a mess...or use foul language in front of my children and grandchildren...or myself, for that matter....The fact is I have been bothered far more by adult misconduct and noise than I ever have by children.  Besides, when I go in to eat at a family resturant like an IHOP,I EXPECT to hear kid noise...to me it's part of the ambiance.   I think part of this trend is the desire of alot of PC folks not to OFFEND anyone....Oi...Vey!  You know there are choices to be made here...you don't HAVE to go out and eat....and if you do, YOU can DECIDE that you are going to enjoy the evening, or morning, or whatever...I think people need to quit being so thin skinned about stuff....YOU WILL ENJOY YOUR LIFE ALOT MORE...AND FACILITATE OTHERS TO ENJOY THEIRS AS WELL!!!!
Aug 3, 2011 7:54 PM Guest Dana  says:
I think it speaks to how so many parents utterly fail to control their children in public.  I love kids, but I do not enjoy going to a restaurant, movie, etc and having to listen to kids screaming or them running around, making messes, etc.  I don't think businesses would have to resort to this if parents would discipline their children like they should.
Aug 4, 2011 8:34 AM Guest Julie M.  says:

When I hear of the extremes our culture is embracing, sometimes I wonder if the human race has suffered a mutation in its natural instinct to survive that now has somehow turned into a desire for extinction!  As a realtor in the State of Florida, I see this trend towards "childlessness" evidenced in Active 55 communities and luxury retirement centers. There are other communities that cater to young adults that are definitely child-unfriendly.

 

I think it's sad -- and could be an indicator that our society really is post-modern!  For the couples who decide that they are too busy or too self-absorbed or too career-oriented to "bother" with having children, I wonder who will come visit them, care for them, or involve them in activities when they are too old and infirm to live independently and they find themselves in a nursing home!

 

Self-centeredness is a cruel taskmaster:  it may reap temporary pleasures - but those are fleeting.  One day - barring accidents and unscheduled serious illness, we can expect to grow old --- Yuck!  But true, nonetheless.

 

My in-laws were wonderful parents and fabulous grandparents.  They were natural parents of 12 children.  My father-in-law lived to be 82 and we lost my mother-in-law recently at 93.  In spite of illnesses that sometimes accompany "getting older", they led a vibrant and full life and were loved and freely shared their love with others for their entire lives.

 

Nursing homes are full of older folks - many of whom are lonely beyond belief, forgotten or left alone by family - cared for by either dedicated, loving strangers or by folks who are overworked and struggling just to take home a paycheck.  Seldom do you find children visitng there, but I've noticed that when a child is present, smiles appear on almost every face, feeble elder arms eagerly reach forward for a hug or a little bit of attention from the child.

 

I think it's incredibly sad for folks who chose to have a lonely, solitary end-of-life exisitence.  Funny, when you're young and living in the fast lane, pursuing and enjoying being foot-loose and fancy-free, you just don't see the end result.

 

I'm so happy for each of my 3 wonderful adult children.  I'm thrilled they all chose Godly spouses and have sought to rear Godly children, 11 grandchildren for us, so far.  It's one of life's greatest joys to see a grandchild marry a godly bride and start his own family.  I would never trade these joys for anything I may have "missed" because I was a wife and mother.

 

Are kids noisy? Sometimes!  Do they sometimes create a scene? Sometimes!  Do they sometimes embarrass you or need to be corrected? Certainly!  But I submit that each of us was once a child - each of us were sometimes noisy, created a scene - at least once, embarrassed our parents, and needed correction.  Someone gave us room to grow up.

 

Children are not only our future, they are also our present!  And they keep us "real"!  With children, what you see is what you get! (Don't expect that 5-yr old to tell you that you look thin if you aren't, or that Uncle Harry is sweet if he's a cranky old man)!.  Don't expect that your doorknobs will always be clean and your house will always be ready to photograph for Better Homes and Gardens.  But if you love unconditionally, expect that love to come back to you  --- sometimes with sticky little fingers and grubby little faces snuggled against your shoulder.  I wouldn't trade those times for all the luxury retirement living or world cruises or fabulous first-class, (child-free) travel in the world!

 

How about you?

Aug 3, 2011 7:54 PM Guest Judie  says:

Its about time they have public places that adults can enjoy en evening out without "ill behaved" parents... think about it... have you ever noticed that mid-behaved children, more often than not come from ill-behaved parents? you know the once, they make more of a fuss, then the child does? I adore my children, I have one in college (girl) & a H.S senior (boy), both were great in public places (we often practiced at home how to act in public, which should be how they act at home).

 

Did they have off days, sure - but not where the public had to listen to it or deal with it. I agree there should be places that ADULTS only can enjoy themselves, w/o out having to listen to someone else's childrens & their  "parents"..... its funny, my own children felt that way when they were young and more so even today....I always had people compliment how well behaved & polite my kids were when they were little and still do today - learing to respect those around you with your actions speaks volumes.

Aug 3, 2011 7:54 PM Guest Dan D  says:

The definition of irony

We put our kids in nursery during church, send them to children's church after the "worship" time, hire sitters so that we can go to small group, have "crying" rooms in the back of church.

Now we  complain when the world wants us to leave a screaming kid at home from a white table cloth resturant.  Thats why God invented Chuckie Cheese and McDonalds

Aug 4, 2011 8:41 AM Guest Jo F.  says:
Of course children ar a gift from God.  Many in our nation have forgotten that, as they have forgotten God. We raised 5 boys,  Of course there were meltdowns, but we removed them until they calmed own.  We did not have to be asked to do so.  We now have 9 greatgrandchildren, and their parents handle it the same way.  I do think that there are very fancy and formal eating places where children should not be taken in the first place.
Aug 3, 2011 7:57 PM Guest Jan  says:
I know children are a blessing, and I know we're instructed to teach our children, etc. BUT, its a shame that a lot of young parents do NOT know how to teach (discipline) their children and I can appreciate the new standards that these public institutions are putting in place now. Today's children are a ruly lot!  (Not all of course, but, it only takes one to spoil it for all).
Aug 3, 2011 7:57 PM Guest Bobby  says:
I actually agree with banning kids from certain places and will thoroughly enjoy it. I am not anit-kid. I am anti-parents who don't know how to parent. Unfortunately the kids are the ones who suffer for the inadequate or incompetent parents who are unable or unwilling to control their kids in public. My bottom would have been raw if I had done some of the things I have seen in restaurants, movie theatres, and grocery stores. Gods laws regarding parenting haven't changed since I was a kid, so it must be the level and quality of parenting that have changed. There are obvous acceptions, such as mentally challenged kids or those with other handicaps, but you know what? Everyday I have to do things I don't want to do because laws have been made to "protect" the majority of people, not the offenders. It's a tough world.
Aug 4, 2011 8:43 AM Guest sue d.  says:

In this culture of so called tolerance and diversity we can't tolerate children.

HMM It is just emphasizing the lie of this concept of tolerance. It really is just a concept that doesn't work because there is no moral boundries to it. So we make up our own rules

based on personal preferences.   

Aug 4, 2011 8:43 AM Guest Joe  says in response to Susan:
Good insite.  I couldn't have said it better.
Aug 4, 2011 8:44 AM Guest pat  says:
Childless resturants are as Spock says, "Illogical".  I agree with many of the commentors the parents need to train their children.  I had five children...little stair steps if you will, and we would have comments on how well behaved they were.  Of course we "talked" to them before we went.  But they had company manners on at home, too.  That trained them for going out.  Teach the parents to teach the children. And, yes, I do believe that the cultural thing is beginning to play a part.  We can't let that happen!
Aug 3, 2011 7:58 PM Guest Gwen  says:

Unfortunately this is the result as the manager of that restaurant indicated when interviewed that some parents just don't "get it".  My parents would have been mortified and taken us out of a public place if we behaved like I've seen more and more children behave in restaurants.  There's no respect for other 's time, space or property.  I recently went to a very nice restaurant with my husband near Yosemite as we celebrated 29 year anniversary and a much need vacation.  There were 3 young families eating together with 2 -3 kids each all under 8 years old.  It wasn't bad when they were eating, but after the kids were finished, the parents continued with another bottle of wine and the kids just went wild, chasing each other the around the table that was in the middle of the restaurant screaming, then running out the door and back in.  It was worse than Chuck E Cheese.  The parents could not have been oblivious to the distraction and dirty looks given by other patrons, who couldn't even hear their party across from them.  They unapologetically CHOSE not to be considerate and settle their children, take them elsewhere or move their own party to a location that would not ruin the meals for the 15 other groups in the restaurant,

 

Children never bothered me growing up or raising my own family because as a society parents and children had better manners.  They were considerate of others.  I don't fault the children.  They do what they're taught.  I fault the parents. 

 

As a result of this and other 'parents out of control situations' I've observed more and more, yes, I believe there should be times and places where people can go to have a nice, quite, peaceful dinner to enjoy the company of others and nurture their own relationships. 

Aug 3, 2011 7:58 PM Guest Leilani  says:
I think that all things in life, no matter the age of the person, come down to parenting or lack there of.  The real problem is not the children, but the parents.  Children only behave the way they have been allowed to behave.
Aug 3, 2011 7:58 PM Guest Linda  says:
I agree with many of the posts that the problem is more with parents who don't discipline their children.  I do realize that children of even the best parents have meltdowns.  However, when that occurs, the smart parent removes the child from the situation. Ther have been many times when I have sat in the car with a screaming child while the rest of the family finished their dinner, the movie or whatever the activity was.
Aug 3, 2011 7:59 PM Guest Mary Jean  says:
I do believe that there could be a time/place that children are not allowed.  This gives those who find crying babies and disruptive children more than an annoyance an opportunity to dine, watch movies, shop, etc in peace.  The unfortunate thing is that too many parents are not in control of their children and have made it bad for the others.  The issue is not the well mannered but the out of control.  Perhaps a time thing---such as no childern after 7 PM or whatever works.
Aug 4, 2011 8:56 AM Guest Jerry S, Marriage Missonary  says:

Jim,

 

Allow me to be kind but straight forward. We have one daughter who has been happily married for 19 years (plus three grandchildren).  We also had a baby who left us for Heaven at age 16 months.  So, this was an issue once or twice, then like magic, our girls were darlings.

 

Back in the 1970s, my wife and I agreed to a strict policy that we will not allow our selfish child to disturb others in a 3 star eating establishment. No exceptions.  If you cannot behave yourself and act like a young man or a young lady, then we will visit the restroom for further clarification (KWIM?).      I say selfish becasue that is how children act when they do not get there way.  Adults can be selfish but exploit that with different types of anger.  We had the same behavior rule in evening church starting at age 3.  Sit still for the 1 hour service or we will visit the restroom.

 

Children really want discipline ( I believe your predecessor wrote about that once or twice) Now here we are 35 years later and parents let their kids set the standard at the expense of others not being able to enjoy their meal.  Now in a family restaurant or fast food environment, the rules can be relaxed.  The problem is, kids do not know the difference.  School teachers are finding that the school lunch hour is the most disruptive time of the day.    This is because parents don't teach good manners, good social graces or common sense.

 

So that is why commercial establishments have had enough.

 

Now that we are empty nesters, we enjoy an evening meal at a nice quiet restaurant.  We do not enjoy a child interfering with our conversation or the nice surroundings.  We work hard and pay good money for the pleasure to eat peacefully. Yes, Psalm 123:7 says love children and bless them, etc.  But there is a lot more scripture that commands discipline for being disrespectful and disobedient.  At our age, we love kids, just not in our face.

 

By the way, since I cannot rebuke parents for misbehaving children, I make it a habit to speak to parents whose children are quite, polite and have good manners.  I try to do this affirmation in front of the entire family.

Aug 3, 2011 8:01 PM Guest Eva  says:

I do not think the trend is that society does not tolerate children as much as in years past.  I think the trend is twofold:  1.  Parents do not teach their children to listen to and respect them and other adults.  2.  Parents take young children to places that are inappropriate for them and then get frustrated when the children act their age.

 

These situations make the people around them uncomfortable and disappointed in what they planned to be a quiet or civilized event.

Aug 3, 2011 8:01 PM Guest Dena  says:
Obviously, there are places where it is inappropriate for children to be in attendance.  However, common sense should be the rule.  Family movies are made for the entire family not just certain ages.  I recently went to a movie with my young granddaughters.  There were many adults with children of all ages.  No one complained about anything.  Everyone seemed to enjoy the movie which was for children.  I do see a trend where children are less tolerated in society in general.  They are expected to act perfect and if they don't the parents are frowned upon.  It's another trend in our society where children are not valued.  In a nation that has allowed so many abortions, it's no wonder that we, as a society, now are finding dissatisfaction and anger with our children.  I think we are headed for major trouble.
Aug 3, 2011 8:01 PM Guest linda  says:
when i take my 4 year old grandson to public places he is required to behave.  unfortunately not all parents/grandparents feel as i do.  when i see a child running wild or creating a disturbance i feel pity for the child and anger for the adults.  children respect limits.  if they know how to behave in public outings can be enjoyable for everyone.  i would not patronize an establishment that bans children before 9pm.
Aug 3, 2011 8:01 PM Guest Catherine  says:

I thought I would be the only one who felt this way, but I too agree with certain places being child-free. Yes, children are a blessing from the Lord, but so are date nights with your spouse! Like Darlene said, parents these days are abdicating their responsibilities and are raising little monsters. With the rising cost of everything, who wants to spend their hard-earned money listening to ill-behaved children screaming and terrible parents exhibiting their lack of parenting skills? When my children don't behave, we leave, and then they don't go anywhere for a long, long time. And that's a big deal to them because they're homeschooled, so it's not like they leave everyday to go to school.

 

Don't think for a minute that these trouble makers are like yourself, trying to do their best with a cranky child, and actually caring about the disruption they're causing. Ha! I waited tables for many years. Trust me. These people simply do. not. care. how their children behave as long as THEY are not bothered.

 

So let's hope both parent and child will get experience in a public setting and be reformed? It's not like these people would take any helpful advice without flinging profanities. It's not like good parenting skills will "rub off" on them. It's not like a lightbulb will suddenly turn on in their heads. No. All that will happen is that everyone around them will be angry that they wasted their money and they'll think twice before doing it again. Aaand there you have the desperate companies trying to keep their customers coming back.

Aug 3, 2011 8:01 PM Guest Jean  says:
I think it is a great idea for some restaurants.  We no longer have children at home and would love to have some quiet dinners out at times without kids crying and screaming.  We love children.  When we took our children out to eat, we brought whatever we would need to keep them satisfied.  If they needed our attention, they received it.  They always did very well in restaurants.  The problem to day is that the needs of the children are ignored because the parents don't want to be bothered when they are out.  If parents do not want to care for their children properly in a restaurant, then hire a babysitter.  It is not fair to the children to be so unhappy that they have to cry and scream.  Then there is the matter of the undisciplined children.   If the parents don't care about teaching their kids manners, they will not care about the feelings of the people around them either.  Kudos to all the wonderful parents who have well behaved children in restaurants.  It did not happen by accident.
Aug 3, 2011 8:01 PM Guest Bryan  says:
Actually, I think it's just fine, let them preclude kids, but just like bars, they won't get any of my business.  I could take my kids anywhere because they are adults, but it would leave my grandson out.  I agree with some of the others that have said that children are a blessing from God, sometimes kids act up, and I admit they can be distracting for others and a pain for all involved, but they are still a blessing.  When we forget that they are a blessing, we will cease to be a viable community, opting for the "ease" of childlessness rather than the "inconvenience" of parenting.  That is why some of our churches are dying, because young parents bring a fussy child to church and are sometimes outright chastised and other times shunned by those that are inconvenienced by their child.  A church with a crying baby whose parents are encouraged, rather than chastised, is a church that will survive.  Restaurants can probably survive, and may even thrive while barring kids, good for them, but I will choose to take my business elsewhere because if they don't want the ones I love, they don't want me.
Aug 3, 2011 8:02 PM Guest Bob N.  says in response to Darlene:
Well, said, Darlene.   Through two years old, they are a wild card and tough to manage.  At three or certainly four years, if the child is disruptive, it's not the child but the parents who have the problem.  There are restaurants for those folks....called by names like McDonalds and Sonic.  I would have been embarassed as a parent if my kids acted like many I see these days. And I do mean "many".   But many parents seem oblivious or helpless to control their own children.  I don't see the problem so much with couples who are dropping $50-100 on a meal and expecting a quiet, relaxing dinner together.  The bigger problem is with clueless, rude, self-centered parents.
Aug 4, 2011 9:21 AM Guest Norma J.  says:
I am in agreeance with most of what has already been said.  I am a mother of 4 and grandmother of 14.  There were many years we did not go out to a restaurant because our children could be unpredictable.  If we did go out and we had a fussy baby or our young one became unruly, we would leave the restaurant to avoid disrupting others.  That is not what people are doing now, they just unsuccessfully apptempt to gain control or ignore it all together - either option is inconsiderate.  Bring back the manners and consideration of our fellow man and we would not be facing this situation today.
Aug 4, 2011 9:22 AM Guest Freddie &quot;Trey&quot; III  says:

Two of the most precious sounds to me are babies crying and dogs barking.  Both can be annoying as well, but given the choice to have too much or too little/not all of the above--I choose the blessing from God of babies and dogs.

 

Some people are not good at controlling their kids (or pets).  But I find the more general problem is that too many people are so self-centered that they do not want to be bothered by children, animals, or the disabled--anyone or anything that is inconvenient for them.

 

Thanks be to God that His Son loved us so much to be inconvenienced by the cross.  Jesus also loved children and made it cfear that such is the kingdom of God.

 

We should follow Jesus's example and love children. We should never put convenience ahead of love.

Aug 3, 2011 8:05 PM Guest Tricia  says:
I  think this "kid free" trend is possibly coming from the fact that too many parents aren't parenting anymore and consequently have ill-behaved children and not so much that we (as a society) don't like kids. Although, I am sure there are plenty of people who don't particularly care for children, most people enjoy being around children who know how to be polite and considerate. I am a parent of 3 and while I do have compassion for the parent on a plane who is having a rough time with an infant, too often it is more a case of a child behaving like a total brat and the parent doing nothing about it leaving the rest of the people in the restaurant, theater, or plane to put up with the total disruption.  There's no excuse for a rude, beligerent disrespectful child other than the parents are failing at their job.  THAT is what the public is most probably trying to avoid by making some places "kid free" and I can't blame them. Unfortunately, it affects those of us who actually do have well-behaved children who know how to handle being in those venues b/c they know what's expected of them and what the consequences are for not meeting those expectations.
Aug 4, 2011 9:26 AM Guest Dana  says in response to Ed:
Well, it seems to me you could ban ANYONE from being served who was causing a disruption to other customers, whether they be children or whatever.  If ANYONE is not behaving properly, and the behavior continues with no end in sight, they should be politely asked to leave or take children elsewhere.  It's all about BEHAVIOR.  I don't like paying almost $10 to see a movie and hear people constantly talk and comment out loud...and I don't mean quietly--they engage in out loud conversation. They also talk on cell phones and text.  Once, during a county spelling bee, it was down to the last three contestants; one of them  was my student participating in the bee.  A woman's cell phone rang in the audience, and she had the audacity to answer it and start a conversation that everyone could hear!  I was utterly appalled and I stopped the spelling bee, asking the moderator to intervene.   Whatever happened to manners, decency, and respect for others?  As a public school teacher, I see this sorely lacking in our society today.
Aug 3, 2011 8:07 PM Guest Jessica  says:
Whole Foods Market is not banning children during certain hours, they are providing shoppers with a nursery service while their parents shop from what I understand.  I have no problem with nicer restaurants banning kids, I am a family girl with three kids of my own and I know that it would be rude to take kids into noramlly quiet places anyway so I don't.  I love my kids to death and am not bothered by their noise or the noise of other kids in everyday circumstances, but I know that when my husband and I go out to a nice restaurant it is nice to focus on one another in a quiet conversation.
Aug 4, 2011 9:04 AM Guest John C.  says:

This situation is due to several separate facts:

Some people do not value children, especially if they infringe on them in any way

Some parents do a poor job of caring for their children and taking them to appropriate places at appropriate times, or disciplining those that are toddlers

 

I am a parent of two and remember those early years when children can have a "meltdown".  Parents should not take babies to fancy restaurants, but by the same token they are a blessing and their challenges should be tolerated at a fast food restaurant or in an airplane.

 

Too often our society believes those who are not productive (babies, elderly) are not valuable.  God says otherwise.  There are plenty of ways to enjoy your children (or other people's children) without becoming bothered by either side of this controversy.

Aug 3, 2011 8:08 PM Guest Bonnie  says:
The banning of children in public places was very sad and disturbing for me to read about too.  I sent an article on this to my husband a week ago and he echoed my thoughts, "We are increasingly becoming a self-focused culture."  It is difficult to be in the vicinity of a child who is loudly misbehaving or screaming, though I have not seen many parents who are not more distressed by these behaviors than the people around them.  It is a very difficult situation as a parent, and tiring, and parents really need support and to get out sometimes when they have young children.  Most importantly, like you say, I am very concerned about the seeming intention to shut children out, like they are not wanted (in order for some people to be guaranteed their shopping etc. trips will not be interrupted by any noise from children.)  I liked your story about the orchastra stopping their performance to hear the sound of a baby~ what has happened to cherishing the young innocence and preciousness of childhood?
Aug 3, 2011 8:08 PM Guest Jenny  says:
This is happening in the church too.  Babies, toddlers, elementary kids, middle school...they all have their own classes.  Families don't worship together anymore.  If someone brings a baby into church the ushers make a special note in case they have to shoo the mother and child out.
Aug 4, 2011 12:18 PM Guest Kim  says in response to Susan:

You took the words out of my mouth. I would have phrased it less eloquently, referring to parents who try to be their kids' friends and let them act like little monsters. My husband and I chose not to have kids. What gets me is parents who look at childless couples like us and proclaim we don't have the right to any opinion regarding children. Hello? I don't have to have kids to know when I see one misbehaving and making everyone around him miserable.

 


Aug 4, 2011 9:07 AM Guest Jim S.  says:

This is true it is a sad commentary on our society.

I have walked into a few to many public places and have had to listen to children that have been put on cruise or ignored by there parents I'm especially irritated at the movie theater when the language coming out of the children is way worse than the movie we may be watching. If you say anything you are often told to mind your own business. I came from a different time I'm 60 now and I love to watch little and big kids when they act with respect of those around them.

Aug 3, 2011 8:10 PM Guest Katie  says:
I have been to more than one church as a visitor where I was told that my child under 6 was not welcome in the service. That was not a very welcoming gesture and I in turn did not receive a very welcomed feeling. If this has become the norm in the House of God, why are we surprised when a secular business follows their example? Christ did not send the little children away, there is not a single place in Scripture where children were segregated to be taught "on their own level" or asked to leave an adult congregation when God's message was being taught. Today's churches have already been deceived into thinking we must follow the worlds system of adult only and children only activities. An adult only restaurant does not surprise me, however, I would choose a family friendly restaurant just as I choose a family friendly church.
Aug 4, 2011 9:09 AM Guest Becky V.  says:
I love kids!  I work at an Academy and am almost literally surrounded by them throughout the school year.  I have two boys of my own who are past the stage where I would be told they were not to be in a restaurant, etc.  However, I can truly relate to the problem.  I do think that our society is losing or better yet has already largely lost the focus and importance that God felt for the little ones. (The fact that we kill thousands of them every day before they are even born is witness to this fact.)   This is tragic, and we, as a group and also individually, lose so much richness in our lives because of not realizing the importance and pure joy of children.  However, another aspect of the problem is the lack of appropriate, loving discipline in so many of our homes.  Children are not taught to obey.  They are allowed to unleash their emotions on anyone and at anytime without effective deterents.  This creates an atmosphere of chaos that most public places, such as the ones mentioned above, don't wish to witness.  So, the problem is twofold but related.  I think that just as we as a nation have turned from realizing the importance of children, we also have turned from the Scriptural directives on how to love, discipline and nuture a child to adulthood.  Thus we end up in the mess we find ourselves today.  I think that it will be a very sad day when I cannot go to a restaurant and look over and enjoy the sweet smiles and antics of a baby.  There is nothing quite so fresh and loveable - a gift directly from God's hand!
Aug 3, 2011 8:11 PM Guest claire  says:
i think this is hapening because parents now a days know very little about proper discipling of their children, i see it with friends and family when invited to my house, the child is wild and the parent ignores them, then i have to step in and do the disciplining which most parents resent. when i have a dinner party now i specify " no chidren please" unless of course i know the parents have well behaved children..
Aug 4, 2011 9:10 AM Guest Linda C.  says:

I think it is very sad for young couples not to be able to take their children out to eat

with them.  I think the parents should take the child out of the restaurant if he/she

starts throwing fits or screaming.  They have to learn to behave properly and they learn

this by experiencing the good way to behave and the way that is not good and they

get taken out until they settle down.

Aug 4, 2011 9:11 AM Guest Mike P.  says:
"Parents of Unruly Children Will Not be Tolerated" should be how the signs read. Children are indeed a blessing; parents that cannot control them are not. God designed the crying and screaming of children purposely to be annoying to attract the attention of their parents. It is not pleasant. In fact recordings of that sound, played backwards, are used in sound-based deterrent weapons. I have seen lovely children of all ages sitting or playing quietly in public places, including restaurants. Those children who are unruly - don't watch them - watch their parents. You'll probably discover the parents will be found behaving like adult versions of their noisy children. . . . My wife and I, ourselves the parents of four grown children, consciously choose restaurants that do not attract parents who bring children. In effect, with our wallets we vote out noisy eating establishments.
Aug 4, 2011 9:12 AM Guest E M.  says:
When I first read the question I thought, "That's just mean and selfish of people to be that way towards children." But when I started reading the comments, I can see it from both sides. My husband and I very seldom go out alone. We WANT our children to go with us and do things as a family. But, before we started doing this, we started at home. It has to start at home. If the children can't sit and eat at home without disruption, why would you even take them out and expect them to? So, our children know that when we go in and sit down to eat, we eat. No fussing, no fighting. If you can't do that, we don't go anymore. They learned really quick that we meant business. Now they see other kids acting up and say, "They shouldn't be acting like that". And they are only 4 and 5! Children pay attention and they learn really quick. Start at home. Seems like noone teaches basic manners anymore.
Aug 4, 2011 9:12 AM Guest Lynn S.  says:

I think there should be MORE family-friendly restaurants!!  I have 3 now-grown children, 3 grandchildren, and one 'on-the-way,'  and I want them to be welcomed where we go to eat, which is usually a special occasion of some type.


Aug 3, 2011 8:14 PM Guest Connie  says in response to Tim :
I don't believe it is a bad thing that there are children-free places or times.  I find well-behaved children just fine, but it is the parents that annoy me.  Empty threats and letting the children cry or scream(or even talk loud to command attention) without regard to other people around you is just rude.  We raised 2 girls and did not take them out unless it was to 'children friendly' places. Although, I insisted on 'inside voices' and did not accept crying or whining as a way of communicating with me there were times that I did not have control.  I would always leave where we were if they acted inappropriately.  I am not sure why most parents do not do that.  There would not be a need for child free places if this were the case.  I believe that many people would be much more tolerant of the occasional outburst if parents could manage their reactions to their children.
Aug 3, 2011 8:14 PM Guest Jen  says:

Wow, I am so surprised that so many Christians on this board are in favor of these types of policies banning children from places.  I think it is a sad reflection of the value of children in our society.  Children are a blessing.  They are precious.  I agree with Jim Daly in fully embracing Psalm 127: 3.

 

It's no surprise that the world doesn't see the high value of children, but it's extremely sad to hear that sentiments of many Christians saying, "I believe children are a blessing, BUT....."

 

Children are people with just as much value as adults- these types of policies treat them as if they are no more than a pet dog at the worst, or a nuisance at the best.  Child free policies at these public places send a very negative message about children to the public.

 

It may be true that a private restuaraunt has a right to ban children from their place of business, but for myself, I would have no interest in going out to eat at a place with such a low view of the value of children.

Aug 3, 2011 8:14 PM Guest Robert M  says in response to Ginger:

I have no problem if most parents did this.  Maybe Parents in MD are worse but more and more Parents don't do that they just let the Child cry, scream, and miss behave all the time.  There is a reason these didn't exist 20 years ago.  Parents actually diplaned there Childern and people would understand a Child having a problem because the Parents would either quit them down or remove them from the place.  Now they at best tell them to stop but does nothing.

 

Thanks

Robert

Aug 4, 2011 9:28 AM Guest Clarence G.  says:

1. If a child's ability to tollerate or behave in a public place is minimial or absent, is a parent wise to bring the child into that environment?

2. Many parents lack the skills to deal with their children.  It is not the child who is the problem, but the inadequate parenting he/she has received.

3. Parents sometimes/ often do not consider the general need of others present.  They need to take the child out and do what is necessary, perhaps, take the child home for a nap or to bed for the night.

4. In view of 1-3, it may be that public places are just trying to bring a little sanity into their realm.  Setting a boundary because things have gotten out of hand because parents lack the wisdom necessary to deal with the issue you raise.

Aug 4, 2011 9:29 AM Guest Deb  says:

I have four children. I know they are a blessing from the Lord. The children in our church services have been consistently well behaved or are removed if loud. But now that I am older, it is hard to listen to children screaming anywhere. I understand children have meltdowns or power plays. Sadly few parents will take their child out of the store or restaurant which I appreciate. The hardest place for me is the grocery store. For some reason many parents let their children constantly scream, whine, or talk loudly while shopping.  For these reasons, I understand not wanting small children in certain places or asking parents to take an unruly child out of the store. I think it is very possible our society is becoming more intolerate of children. Perhaps part of the problem, that I have noticed, is that unfortunately many parents don't parent their children in public when they have rowdy behavior? 

Aug 4, 2011 3:00 PM Guest Bailey  says:

I think that any business owner should have the right to restrict their clientele to older children and adults. Unlike many, my wife and I did not make a habit of bringing our toddler to nice restaurants and allow him to cry, scream, and make things unpleasant for other customers. When I was in graduate school in the early ''80s I chose an adult only apartment complex- an option no longer available due to our meddlesome US Congress.

This is an area that should not be regulated by state, local, or federal governments.

Aug 3, 2011 8:15 PM Guest Carol  says in response to Roger:
Roger, I think you have hit the nail on the head with this response!
Aug 4, 2011 9:32 AM Guest Daniel B.  says:
I appreciate your concerns Jim.  But I wonder; "nothing is new under the sun."  Jesus had rebuked his disciples not to hinder the little children to come to Him.  Growing up I heard the W.C. Fields comment "children need to be seen and not heard."  I can relate to you in dealing with a child in public "who is acting up" and at times thankful that was all it was and not a complete and total "meltdown."  Children need structure and discipline.  That should not be a surprise.  Even Jesus needed to learn discipline.  I am 55 now and thankfully still learning.  Sadly some people never seem to and it is not surprising never impart discipline and instruction in raising their own children.  That obviously poses a problem.  These businesses recognize that and as your article stated have adopted children's policies.  I have no problem with that.  It is the business' right to do so; just as another business may view this as an opportunity to reach out to little children and families.  Major concern is how churches respond.  Children are a gift from GOD.  They should be cherished and nurtured.  They and mom & dad need to be shown tolerance and more importantly the LOVE of CHRIST. GOD'S BLESSINGS and may His Peace Reign in the hearts of all His people!!!
Aug 4, 2011 9:33 AM Guest Barb  says:

I think its a good idea to have childless restaurants. There is nothing worse than to take your child out to eat and have someone glaring or making snide remarks when your child is behaving very well for a child. The people who won't tolerate children can go to them and the rest of us who love kids can take our kids out and teach them how to use good manners when eating out without having Mr or Ms judgement right next to us.

 

As for airlines, I don't think its a good idea for them to ban children. Frankly, there is more wiggle room for a child in first class so they are more comfortable there. Airlines can have a child free zone if they want but it shouldn't force people willing to pay for first class to sit in coach where the kids will be kicking the seat backs and leaning over the backs of seats or fighting to be allowed to run in the aisles.

 

Child free shopping hours? I think the stores will find they lose money on that one. If a parent finds a certain time more convenient they are going to get groceries somewhere. The stores that let them shop at their convenience will be building customer loyalty and that does have a major impact. Word of mouth will bring more people shopping for whole families while the child free shops will be selling to a family of two. Guess who will most likely be buying more!

 

I have to admit that when I see children acting out in public it makes me smile. It brings back memories of my children when they were that age and I love it! I can empathize with the parents and will play peek a boo or make faces to help distract the little one from whatever is causing them to act out.

Aug 4, 2011 9:39 AM Guest Stacie C.  says:

One of my favorite restaurants while traveling was a steak place that had two dining rooms... one for families and one no children allowed. Ault only section had cloth tablecloths and napkins, crystal salt/pepper shakers, flowers on the table. A lovely dining experience at a very economical price... a nice break while traveling.

 

Eating out is a treat. I hate it when unruly children destroy that treat for all around. I left restaurants many times with my entire meal in a box because my son was fussy. I NEVER allowed him to become disruptive. I packed up and left. Others should consider such courtesy.

Aug 3, 2011 8:18 PM Guest beth g  says:
I confess I have an intolerance not for children but for ill behaved children of oblivious parents.  Usually these oblivious parents are also the ones who  talk loudly on their cell phones in public and then act as if everyone around them is intruding on their private conversation.  While I'm all about child free restaurants if your child can't behave I would rather see cell free phone restaurants.
Aug 3, 2011 8:18 PM Guest Lainey  says:
I totally agree with Agnes.  I have an almost 4 yr old and a 6 1/2 yr old and when I get a night away from my kids I really don't want to have to listen to anyone else's scream.  Of course if I choose to go to Red Robin for dinner then I am asking for it but if I go out for a nice fondue dinner, for example, then I expect a quiet evening.
Aug 4, 2011 9:41 AM Guest Katrina  says:
In my opinion, this is not a BIG DEAL issue. I don't think we need to make more out of it than it is. Some people simply do not tolerate children well and some elect NOT to have any. Some adults with children just want to get away to a place where they can have some peace and quiet without children. I have 4 of them that I love dearly, so I'm not a child hater either. If some businesses decide to provide that service to people, more power to them. There are plenty of kid friendly places to go. There are places that cater to children and families in particular, and I don't see that changing. I think we would all be better off, if we could just learn to live and let live. Stop judging everything and every one and just do what is best for you and your family even if it doesn't happen to be the same as it is with someone else. Stop straining gnats, so to speak.
Aug 3, 2011 8:21 PM Guest Nancy  says:

As a mother of two grown children and grandmother of two wonderful boys, I believe children are a special blessing from God.  With that blessing comes the responsibility of discipline.  The proper discipline and training needs to take place in the home (in the proper manner). There is plenty of good Christian literature available with help on training and discipline of children.  If children are trained in the home, it's much easier to control behavior in public.  However, I believe children should be taught to behave properly at home as well as away.  From the time our first child was two years old we ate out frequently.  I count it a blessing that my children were well-behaved in restaurants.  They knew from the start that misbehaving in public was not an option for them.  My children were not perfect by any means, but the few times we did have a problem, we took them outside and took care of the matter privately -- without forcing other paying customers to be subjected to their crying and our trying to talk louder than the child was crying..

 

 

So, yes, there are certain times and certain places where people have the right to not be forced to listen to a child throwing a fit.  If parents would take their children out when they misbehave and deal with it privately, businesses would not have to impose such rules.  Discipline should be done in private anyway.

 

There are times when children cannot be left at home and they do get overly tired. At times we need to be a little tolerant and show grace.  I certainly don't believe that unkind words and ugly looks are ever appropriate, especially for a Christian.  Maybe we should just say a prayer in our heart for the parent who has to deal with the situation.  

Aug 3, 2011 8:23 PM Guest Susan  says:

I would LOVE it if more places had days or times set aside for "no children". I have 2 older daughters (15 and 20) now, but we did not allow our kids to scream or throw fits when we were out in public or at home. Who wants to pay hard earned money to sit by a crying or screaming baby or young child during a movie or a meal? Not us and not a lot of people apparently.

Aug 3, 2011 8:25 PM Guest Carrie  says:

Sadly, today's parents are lazy; they act as if their children are an inconvience to them, thus the obnoxious children that we've all seen in the grocery store.  I do not agree w/ the banning of children, but I do believe an establishment should have the right and authority to ask the family first, to control their child, and second, to leave if it's causing that much of a disrutption because the parent(s) is neglegent in controlling their child.  As in the case of infants, where crying cannnot be controlled, the parents should have the courtesy to slip out of where ever they are in consideration of others.  Isn't that what  (some) moms and dads do in church services?  This world's attitude is becoming self-centered, easily offended, "don't correct me," but I don't believe a ban is the solution.  Parents just have to step it up and do their job as parents.

Aug 3, 2011 8:25 PM Guest Karen  says:
I don't think this decision will negatively influence someone's decision to have a child.  My husband and I do not currently have children but are in the process of adopting.  I do not like going to a nice restaraunt and having our meal interrupted by a child who is upset or whose parents are ignoring them.  It doesn't make the child bad, but all children will have a meltdown at some point.  (Now don't get me wrong, I don't expect silence at Chick-fil-A!)  I think there are plenty of places to use that can cater to both sides.  I think this also is a benefit for people with children. If parents splurge for a babysitter and a meal out away from the children and then all they hear or see are other people's children, I have to imagine that isn't very relaxing.  I am all for this idea and hope some in my home state will adopt this policy!
Aug 4, 2011 9:53 AM Guest Jack R.  says:

As a retired military person, my family and I had the opportunity to spend tours of duty around the world. My 3 kids

were born in Germany and were educated in US civilian and military schools on several continents. In Europe, many establishments did not welcome children, therefore we did not subject the kids to an environment that did not welcome children. As they matured and were able to function acceptably in an adult venue, we introduced them to more adult situations. A basic function of the parent is to train the child to interface seamlessly with society and teach the child basic courtesies and behaviorial skills. It seems to me that many parents have not acquired the child raising skills necessary for their offspring to mesh with society. Discipline, fairly meted and skillfully taught can work wonders when raising children.

Aug 3, 2011 8:27 PM Guest karen  says:

We truly loved to take our children out to eat when they were small and we love to entertain our grandchildren, but we take them to restaurants that are family friendly.  Little children do not belong in an atmosphere that people pay to go for a quiet, peaceful evening.  There is nothing more annoying than hearing a child screaming when you finally get away and are paying a price for that peace and quiet!

     Also, if our children did misbehave-when they were too little to understand we left the restaurant and when they were older, they were disciplined and eventually knew they were to speak softly when we went to any restaurant.

Aug 3, 2011 8:28 PM Guest Kim  says:
I am all for places who offer child-free entertainment and meals. I loved raising my three children and being a single mom, I couldn't afford to go out to eat often but now that they are gone, I enjoy a quiet meal out with a date or friends. Going out is a luxury for many people, including parents so they should be given the option of not having a meal interrupted by a screaming or loud child. Sadly, many parents do not expect children to behave in public. I've seen many parents who expect a small child to sit still why they enjoy a long dinner and I actually feel sorry for the child. There are plenty of restaurants who cater to kids so they have plenty of options available.
Aug 9, 2011 2:43 PM Guest Karen P.  says:
*       Dear Mr. Daly, in your August 3rd post on “What Do You Think of Childless Restaurants,” your comment about Whole Foods offering “child-free shopping hours” inferred that the grocery chain does not allow children to enter the premises during certain hours. However, when I went to the Whole Foods website and searched for Missouri locations, I found a different scenario. Here is the exact wording from the Town and Country webpage: “Parents, now you can enjoy a child-free shopping experience every Friday this month. You can even have lunch with friends in our café without any interruptions! Drop your child off in our Whole Lifestyle Center any time during the hours of 10:30 am and 12:30 pm where your child will enjoy books, crafts or coloring. A healthy snack will be provided. Limited to eight potty-trained children. Reservations required please call Diane Van Booven at 636-527-1160, Ext. 127.” It doesn’t seem like Whole Foods is restricting parents from bringing children into the grocery store. Rather, Whole Foods is merely offering a free child-sitting service for parents. It is late, and I cannot call the phone number until tomorrow morning to confirm the facts. I ask you to also call Whole Foods. If Whole Foods is banning children from their store during certain hours of the day, I would be greatly interested in that fact since that is where I shop every week. If your call reveals that Whole Foods does not ban children, then you owe Whole Foods a public apology. By the way, when I searched the word “child” on the Town and Country webpage, I was pleasantly surprised to see that they also offer a weekly parent/child reading time at the store, offer yoga classes for children, host a “Back to school Fun” program for parents and children, sponsor a children’s book fair with proceeds going to a local library and sponsor a “Push for Pencils” school drive with supplies going to local children in need. They sound like a child-friendly store, if you ask me! Kindest regards.
Aug 3, 2011 8:30 PM Wyldfyrfighter Wyldfyrfighter    says:

I am loathe to object as to what manner someone who owns a business wishes to run it...resturants, especially succeed or fail based on how well they cater to and satisfy their general customer base.

I suspect the "childless" resturant trend is rooted in two ideas....one is the perceived need to make the customers who bring the most dollars into the establishment happy, and the other is to be a part of the fashionable trend of being "non-offensive."  But mostly, I think resturanteurs who make their establishments adults only are making a business/financial decision.  That said, I have to say I have been far more offended, or should I say grossed out and annoyed by the bad behavior of adults in eating establishments....such as horrific table manners, body odor, not covering mouths and noses when coughing or sneezing, trashing the rest rooms, belching and making other bodily noises in public, arguing and talking loudly, and being spectacularly rude to the waitstaff...I've seen it all.  Frankly, a squalling baby or two and general kid noise is nothing compared to what adults do on occasion...What will send me fleeing from a resturant faster than someone yelling FIRE is poorly prepared food and bad service....and obnoxious adult clientiele.

Aug 3, 2011 8:30 PM Guest trina  says:
WOW I think that is encroching on our rights we should have our family together and whos to say NO KIDS i dont think we need more and more of our freedom taken away,as it is we have so much to do in a day that haveing time with our loved ones is getting rare and is needed i have a special little girl she is autistic and we do not wish to leave her with some one and have her not share that time with us...and if something was to ever happen to her during that time i dont think i could live with myself..
Aug 3, 2011 8:32 PM Guest Charlene  says:
I have three grown children, two grandchildren and have spent much of my life in ministry to kids.  It is true that you can't guarantee behaviors in public, but when we raised our kids, they typically behaved well in public, and if they didn't, we removed them from the situation and dealt with the problem in private.  But, we did not subject others to unwanted behaviors.  Since our kids knew they wouldn't get away with their behaviors or gain by them, they were rarely much of a problem.  Far too often I see parents who have tired kids out well after the children should have been tucked in for the night, ignoring behaviors, cajolling, bribing, begging, reasoning, and giving in to pressures their children impose on them. It is especially annoying to be subjected to unruly behaviors since I know that, except for rare intances, it can be prevented.  Poorly behaved children have become so common that well behaved ones stand out.  I routinely take a moment to compliment well behaved children in front of their parents and thank the parents for the good job they are doing.
Aug 3, 2011 8:34 PM Guest Carol  says:
I just read a few of the replies but already had an opinion beforehand.  For nice restaurants in particular there should be certain hours when possibly the restaurant is childfree.  Young children are unpredictable.  My sister worked with developmentally handicapped children all day and I can remember us being in a restaurant next to a baby that was screaming.  My sister just wanted to be able to talk and enjoy each other's dinner together and escape from what she had heard all day at work.  So, childfree hours would be a nice compromise especially for nice restaurants.  Or possibly like "smoke-free" sections of a restaurant, there could be "child-free" sections.
Aug 4, 2011 10:30 AM Guest Bette  says:

Bless the little children and let them come unto me says the Lord.  If someone does not receive one of these little ones then they are causing much pain to God's heart.  For years my husband and I could not have our own children.  It wasn't until we were entering our 25th year of marriage that we decided to do Foster to Adopt.

 

Yes, we did ADOPT 2 wonderful kids.  They are half brother and sister.  Our oldest child is a boy and he will be 13 this month.  He came into our home and heart at age 4.  Our youngest just turned 7 years old.  She came into our heart, home and hands at 8 days old.

 

YES children should be allowed to be in public places with their parents.  But I also agree that parents need to correct their children when they misbehave so they will less likely cause a disturbance that this artice speaks about.  It is the parents role to correct behaviors not the govenment or the school system.  God told us parents to "Train up a child in the way, he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it.

Aug 3, 2011 8:35 PM Guest Leslie  says in response to Agnes:

I couldn't have said it better myself.  We, too, have 3 children (all 6 and under) and don't get away often, but when we do, don't want to be surrounded by screaming kids.  We don't often go out to eat as a family, as finances don't permit a family of 5 eating out regularly, but our children are expected to be well behaved when we do.  We do however, choose places that are child appropriate (not necessarily fast food, but family friendly).  If someone is out of control one of us will take the child outside.  Unfortunately, many parents don't do this, which makes it hard for those trying to enjoy a meal. We have taught our children that it is all about the choices you make.  I have many ugly looks from other parents when my 6 year old observes and says, "Mommy, they aren't making good choices," but he is often just speaking the truth.

A woman I know, whom I look up to and has really been a godly example of a wife and mother to me, once told me, if your children are out of control, then you don't need to take them in public.  Now, I know there are exceptions to this, but I pretty much take this to heart.  If my boys are being ugly to each other, then I wouldn't dare take them to a playdate with other children, much less to a restaurant to disturb someone else's meal.

All in all, I am sad that it has had to come to restuarants and other establishments making this a rule, but I understand why and am in no way offended by it.  I love children and believe that children are a blessing, but just b/c you are a blessing doesn't mean that you should ruin someone else's evening.

Another thought I had was on the servers themeslves... I would assume that a server wouldn't get a very good tip, regardless of the service they are providing if they are serving a table who has had food thrown at them and has had to listen to screaming children from the next table over all throughout their meal.

Aug 3, 2011 8:37 PM Guest Kay  says:
A friend advised us, "Try to take children only to places where they can be themselves."  That worked well.  We also, during elementary years, had special manners training with a nice restaurant meal as a reward.  I like going to adults only locales, because many parents try to skip the sitter and take children where their behavior bothers others.  I also like "kids night" and movie times that welcome babies.  We opened the church nursery during our wedding so that our friends would not have to hire sitters.
Aug 3, 2011 8:37 PM Guest William  says:
I have been in restaurants where there have been childern misbehaving and parents not doing anything about it so I wouldn`t mind this. It should be up to each business weather they wish to have such a rule. The market will dictate wheather this is profitable or not. By no means should the government get involved. Then I would have a problem with it.
Aug 3, 2011 8:37 PM Guest sframylu  says:

I believe this is not so much a growing intolerance of children as much as it is a growing intolerance of bad parenting. I have a very large family, am a teacher and love children but I expect my children and my students to be behaved in public. It is frustrating being at a restaraunt or movie and not being able to enjoy because parents have not taught there children how to behave.

There are times I would welcome a child free area.

Aug 3, 2011 8:38 PM Guest Debra H  says:
As a mother of 4 young children, I feel the growing intolerance every time I go to the store and someone says, "What were you thinking, having all those children?"  It should be noted that my children are generally well-behaved and the few babysitters I get always want to come back.  But when I took my 15-month-old on a plane and he cried a little bit, other passengers seemed very impatient.  Of course, they did not realize that getting on that plane was the only chance for his daddy, who was out defending their freedoms with the Navy, to see him during a 7-month deployment.  I have been in parking lots that do not have room for a mini-van to park and grocery stores that only have the small baskets to carry rather than the carts on wheels with a place to set a child and room to shop for a family.  Flying on airlines with children became so difficult that I gave up trying.  Some vets will not allow me to bring my children in when I take my dog.  Many stores and waiting areas have magazines and TV shows playing that are totally inappropriate for children to see.  This culture is certainly becoming less and less family-friendly.  I hate to see places actually banning children.  On the other hand, I also wish parents would expect good behavior from their children and have the decency to take them out of movies and nice restaurants when they are screaming, and bring them back when they have settled down.  I do not enjoy having children whom I do not know playing with my hair or looking in my purse.  Parents should be putting a stop to this kind of thing.  When I see a parent struggling with a child having an outburst, I feel compassion for the parent.  When I see children who are completely undisciplined running amok in a public place, I think it's a shame their parents cannot show them enough love to teach them how to behave.  Banning children from public places will not prevent them from becoming adults who behave with the same discourtesy; only loving discipline will do that.
Aug 3, 2011 8:38 PM Guest Melissa  says:
I think that it is their preferance as a business.  Just like smoking, I don't like to go to restaurants that allow that because it bothers me.  They may lose business or gain, but either way, it should be their choice.
Aug 3, 2011 8:39 PM Guest Lisa  says:
I agree with many of the parents who said the problem may stem more from parents that won't adequately discipline rather than a culture leaning toward an intolerance of children. As the mother of four, I know how frustrating it is to go out to a restaurant, just to have to spend half of your time there out in a lobby or out in front because your child(ren) won't behave or keep their voices low enough to avoid disturbing others. It's simply the considerate thing to do-I don't deserve a break anymore than anyone else and won't punish others to get my break. I agree with those who said they love their children, but parents' night out is precious and a necessity to a healthy marriage. Kids out at all sorts of restaurants wasn't seen so much 30 or 40 years ago, and so I can see the desire for adults to want a place (or time) to expect a peaceful dinner.
Aug 3, 2011 8:41 PM Guest Becky H  says:
I agree that children are a blessing from the Lord, and we have raised four active children ourselves.  We occasionally ate out with all of our children, but they knew that if they didn't behave we would have no qualms about taking them outside to calm down until they were ready to sit at the table and not bother the other patrons of the restaurant.  All of our children are in their 20's now, and I see a difference in the mindset of so many young parents now.  They feel that they have a right to be at the restaurant and that their children are bound to misbehave, so people should just accept that.  I feel that they have a right to be at the restaurant, but that if their children interfere with my enjoyment of my meal, they have an obligation to correct the situation.  If that means that they change their order to "to go" and go sit in the car until it is ready, so be it.  I think some parents are so bent on asserting their "rights" and those of their children that they forget that they are trampling on the rights of others.  I don't see "child-free" hours or business establishments as an intolerance of children, but rather an intolerance of parents who don't or can't control their children.  Yes, children are unpredictable, but they can be removed from a situation when their actions begin to interfere with the rights of others to enjoy an evening out.  I LOVE seeing families out enjoying each others' company, and often tell parents when I notice that their children are particularly well behaved.  But I don't enjoy having a quiet evening with my husband interrupted by long bouts of screaming toddlers or uncontrolled older children.  If a child starts to throw a tantrum in a public place, I think he needs to be carried outside or into the bathroom or some other place where the noise won't be as much of a problem.  I don't think there is anything wrong with teaching a child that other people have rights too!  I probably would not seek out "child-free" hours or establishments, but I don't have an issue with those that would.  If a business person decides to make that their "niche", I say more power to them!
Aug 4, 2011 11:57 AM Guest Bobbie W  says:

Hello, Mr. Daly.

 

I was not disturbed not by the idea of a restaurant restricting children.  I have three children of that I spend a lot of time with and quite enjoy being with them and being their parent.  That isn't diminished at all by the fact that going someplace that is adults only is sometimes appealing.  I would be shocked if marketers abandoned children.  There's too much money in it for businesses.  So, slow down your train of thought.  I doubt that we will ever return to the days of "children should be seen and not heard."

 

Sincerely,

Bobbie W

Aug 3, 2011 8:41 PM Guest Christine  says:

Yes, children truly are a blessing from the Lord.  However, we don't expect a nursery in a church to be stone quiet do we ????  Do we expect a child's class (wherever that may be) to be silent, as if it were a college math class???  No, a course not.  Therefore,  there are resturants that should have the right (they own them) to not allow children and/or babies.

Being able to go out on a date with my husband to a nice resturant and have to put with a tantruming child, whose parents will not remove the child or a crying baby (normal) is wrong.  This is not appripro for a resturant, unless you are at McDonalds, or Burger King, or the like.  So parents, of little ones, give us all a break, and as we do not require babies and kids to act UNnormal in THEIR normal habitat (nursery, home, school, etc...), don't ruin a lovely dinner or brunch or lunch of a couple or adult friends, but putting kidlet's in NON-age appropriate settings.

Aug 3, 2011 8:44 PM Guest Sarah  says:
Yes, parents need to be more involved with their children. However, I believe that this "no-kids-allowed movement" is a slippery slope and dangerous to families. What will happen a couple decades from now if children see these signs plastered all over the place? What will that generation be like? What will happen to young women who have unplanned pregnancies? Will they choose life for their babies or will they choose abortion because those signs have imprinted the message in their brains that children are not welcome? We need to think about more than our date nights. We need to think about the future of a generation. We need a Malachi 4:5-6 breakthrough. We need to pray for parents' hearts to be turned towards their children.
Aug 3, 2011 8:44 PM Guest Ann  says in response to Linda:
Without reading every opinion listed, I feel confident that those who answered here  are not the cause of these policies regarding children. I have four children and 2 grandchildren and am a Kindergarten teacher, so obviously I love and value children! I know that children sometimes have a difficult time in social situations for many different reasons.There are sometimes physical or emotional problems, but sometimes it's  because their parents don't put in the time and effort it takes to help children learn to behave so as to be considerate of others. When I was a child, my parents took us to nice restaurants and we knew how we were to act. While we were normal children in every way, we knew there were places where we needed to behave so we didn't bother those around us. I think it's fine to have adult-only venues. It's disappointing to make arrangements and pay good money to have a date without your children only to experience the noise and disruption of someone else's children. I do also think that some of the problems stem from the two income families who feel guilty about spending time without their children outside of work hours and are unwilling to discipline them and who have the resources to frequent high-end establishments.
Aug 3, 2011 8:46 PM Guest Jill  says in response to kristen:
I completely agree.  I don't think the cultural problem lies in a lower birthrate or the general popoulation not having sympathy, it's a result of parents not parenting their children.  Kids simply don't belong in certain places.  And when they are in public, in child friendly places, they need to have very specific behavior expectations.  As the mother of a toddler and an infant, I understand the unpredicatable behaviors of both, but we rarely have public incidents because we don't go places when they are tired, or hungry and we never go places where kids shouldn't be.
Aug 4, 2011 10:54 AM Guest Ynot  says:
If the trend continues there may be money in opening a family only restaurant. If childless couples come in, we can stick them in the glass enclosed area, and call it the quiet room. Better yet, lets put four point seat belts in all the booths and just strap the rug rats in so they can't run around. If they start screaming, a fifth seat belt wraps around their mouth. Maybe Big Government should be brought in, and if the kid misbehaves, everyone scurry for their I-phone and report the horrible parents so the kid is taken away. Oops, They don't have to scurry, the phone is already up to their head, and they are complaining they can't hear because of the loud kid, while the others at their table are being ignored. Lets just complain about every little thing that bothers us until we all have to act the same. Maybe if you everybody focused on who's with you at dinner, instead of the kid running past you, then you might have an enjoyable dinner. If that don't work, just trip the little booger on the next pass by. That will make you feel better.
Aug 3, 2011 8:48 PM Guest Leslie  says:

What about a fine, say 20% automatic gratuity added on their bill for out of control children/loud children?  That way, children aren't being banned, and parents have the choice if they want to go to the restaurant.  It would be kinda like how restaurants add the gratuity in for large parties?

 

This might solve the problems..

Aug 4, 2011 11:06 AM Guest nan  says:

I agree with Susan about getting to the root of teaching kids.I did not take my daughter to a restaurant until she was old enough to make it a learning experience.  She was 4 and I took her to lunch at Pargo's for the purpose of teching her how to behave there.  I was very intentional trying to explain everything about menus, ordering, waitresses, how to ask for what you need, all the elements of eating out.  She did well and since it was relatively slow time of day and quiet, she was to focus on me and the learning experience.  We had fun and I was very gratified at the end when the only other couple in the place commented on what a good job she had done.  That really reinforced to her that others notice.

I am delighted to know there are child free places!  Adults need them and kids need something special to look forward to for when they are older.  Not everything should be available to you from the very beginning of one's life. Especially when it means ruining someone else's evening out.

Aug 4, 2011 11:08 AM Guest Sue  says:

My husband and I have raised three beautiful children, now have 4 grandchildren and 2 great grand children.  I believe the problem with children in restaurants and other public places is not the children but with the parents.  The obvisous lack of discipline is seen in unruly children who can't be controled. When our children were young, if they acted up while out in public or in church or any other place....they were removed from the premises...discipline was administered (yes, we spanked them some times) and when they were ready, we returned for another try at politeness and respect for others. I find it sad that children don't know any boundaries these days and are allowed to control their parents instead of how it was meant to be.  Taking children can be an enjoyable experience for everyone if discipline is involved.

Aug 3, 2011 8:50 PM Guest Melissa N  says:
Maybe this is an issue of more and more children who are less and less aware of how to act out in public?  Personally, I like a little chaos when it comes to children running around a house.  However, out in public is another story.  It seems as if a lot of parents, especially single moms are plain worn out by the end of the day, so discipline and managing polite behavior at a restaurant is too taxing to even attempt.  Just my thoughts .
Aug 4, 2011 11:09 AM Guest Jim G.  says:
Parents should be expected to train their children to behave in public.  BUT - banning children from a restaurant is over the top !  If it is open to the public I can't see how they can possibly enforce a ban on children.  That reminds me of the day when a black person couldn't eat in a white restaurant.  Ridiculous !!
Aug 3, 2011 8:52 PM Guest Donna  says:

I think the trend is rooted in the fact that parents do not (or cannot) control their own children.  My husband and I were at Red Lobster for lunch not long ago and a child sitting with his family in the booth behind my husband poked his fork on my husband's head.  There was muffled laughter from the parents and then a weak "sorry".  Then the child was allowed to run through the restaurant yelling.  This is just one example of many.  So, having a "child free" option does have its appeal in a time when parents don't teach their children to respect others.

Aug 3, 2011 8:53 PM Guest Jan  says:
I am a parent of 2 children, and I feel that it is okay for some businesses to make rules regarding children to control the type of environment they wish to maintain.  We have taught our children manners and how to behave in public, but unfortunately too many parents are not taking the time and effort to raise their children with manners and an attitude of respect toward others.  When our children were very young and we were in public, especially restaurants, if they began crying loudly and could not be quieted, my husband or I would take them outside and walk around with them while the other one ate.  Then we would switch.  But this requires effort and sacrifice, something that is becoming more and more lacking in our culture today.  We made every effort not to disturb the people around us - with or without children - who were trying to enjoy a meal.  But today, you hear parents yelling at, cussing at or just plain ignoring children who are either badly misbehaving or simply too young to control themselves.  To me the sad part of this is that it has even become an issue and it makes quite a statement on the lack of parenting that is happening in our country at this time.  We need to pray more and more for the parents and children who are growing up with rudeness and lack of concern for others as an acceptable lifestyle.
Aug 4, 2011 11:01 AM Guest Hollis B.  says:

Oh come on. Has it come to this? I have raised three sons. All kids misbehave in public at one time or another. Some parents handle it well and quickly take the matter in hand. Others act like they are helpless to control their children. When a child cannot calm down in a reasonable amount of time, or in the case of a hungry baby, a parent must take the kid out of the room. If there is an economic demand for child-free restaurants, then there must be a lot of parents abdicating their parental duty. Surely the demand is not due to a large number of people who just don't want to have to look upon a child whilst they eat. This generation has really lost the parenting skills and common sense that their parents and grandparents had. If you don't think so just look how many children from toddler age up are allowed to run through the dining room in a restaurant. What we really need are restaurants that don't allow stupid parents. Hope I haven't been unclear.

Aug 3, 2011 8:56 PM Guest mtat  says in response to Susan:
I couldn't agree more.  Well stated.
Aug 3, 2011 8:59 PM Guest Lil  says:

I would hate to see certain restaurants become a place where I cannot take our three well behaved children.  We would pay the price for those parents who will not discipline their children, nor teach them how to behave in public.  Don't blame the kids for misbehaving, but blame the adults for failing to parent. Usually a child loaded with sugar, juice, sodas is very likely to misbehave.  And yes, when those usually-well-behaved children misbehave, just because they are children (not b/c they are loaded with caffeine and sugar), it should be the responsible parent that takes them out of the restaurant and takes them for a short walk or talk.

Just today I took my 8yr. old daughter to a hair salon for a haircut.  I also brought my 6yr and 3yr old boys with me.  While waiting for our appointment the salon owner approached me and mentioned how well behaved my children were. I had brought something for them to read and play with.  She asked for my advise on how to address parents who bring in their children and let them roam around the salon, climbing on the empty chairs, and not being disciplined by the mothers who come in to have their hair colored.  Afraid to lose the clients, she is struggling with posting a sign that addresses the problem without offending the parents. 

This problem is only going to increase as long as parents are not willing in love to teach and discipline their children.

Aug 3, 2011 9:00 PM Guest John  says:
I think it's great. I purposely choose restaurants where I'm fairly certain not to be annoyed by a screaming child. If there are children, I will ask to be seated as far away from them as possible. It's not their fault they haven't been taught to behave, but I shouldn't be expected to put up with the end result of the lack of proper parenting either. When I take my 3 grandkids, 12, 7, and 2, out to eat they know how to act with very little prompting from me. My daughter was taught well and she in turn has passed that on to her children. There is such a great feeling from strangers coming up to you in a restaurant and complimenting the behavior of your grandkids. Children are one of God's great blessings and should be treated as such. I believe teaching proper manners is part of that. If I were to start seeing restaurants with NO CHILDREN signs, you can bet I'll be going there, except when I've got my 3 little buddies with me.
Aug 3, 2011 9:01 PM Guest Margaret  says:

I agree there are times when children are not appropriate (R & some PG-13 movies) but when our children were born we took them with us almost everywhere.  When we went to nice places we used it as teaching tools.  Our children were taught how to behave in those venues with politeness and poise.  Unfortunately these days parents don't do that.

Aug 4, 2011 11:33 AM Guest Chris W.  says:

A business belongs to its owner. Free will and the freedom this country was founded on give them the right to run it as they see fit and live with the consequences, good or bad.  In a similar way, children are the responsibility of their parents.  Unfortunately, we all have to live with the consequences of their child-raising decisions.

 

It truly is a comment on our downhill society.  Many responses above center on the lack of respect and discipline taught to children these days, and they couldn't be more right.  The self-centeredness and refusal to take responsibility that caused the problem to begin with are also passed to the children, making it an endless circle.  A very sad endless circle.

Aug 4, 2011 11:34 AM Guest jo ma.  says:
I agree with many above, that a quiet adult restaurant or movie would be a welcome retreat.  Too many parents are not willing to take their crying or angry pouty children outside.  During movies, it has become too frequent to talk outloud and distract other people.  I have raised my kids and remember those days, but we did not tolerate having our children impose on other people. 
Aug 3, 2011 9:04 PM Guest Neil  says:
The owner of the business makes the call, not us. We can vote with our feet if we're not happy with the owner's decision. I have had more than one dinner out reined by spoiled parents with uncontrolled children. It seems a few uneducated or preoccupied or careless parents are making it difficult for all parents.
Aug 3, 2011 9:06 PM Guest Sarah D.  says:

I also have mixed feelings. I am the mother of two well behaved girls, ummmm, most of the time. But no matter how well behaved, they too have caused a scene or two when they were young. I've seen many adults create a scene or two as well. However, if we were unable to calm our child, we would always take them outside or to the car for a time out or cooling off time. I agree that "no kid" places may be creating a society that is ati-children. Even as much as I don't agree, I don't think the government should intervene and create some law to force restaurant and grocery stores to allow kids. I believe that the power lays in the consumers hands. If you don't like it, don't shop there or support them. If I'm wrong, I guess I will be finding a permanent place to shop and eat. I want to bring up one important thing though. WHAT ABOUT CHILDLESS CHURCHES? WHAT YOU MAY ASK? Maybe your church is different, but our church is a pretty large congregation in Plano, TX and our policy is if your child even makes a peep or cry, you can be sure there will be an usher waiting to show you to the cry room. Really? Our children are growing up without seeing their parents enter into worship because they are catered to at such an early age with their own services. Sure the cry room is equipped with a speaker so you can hear the service, but the last thing a crying mother wants to do is be shoved into a dimly lit cry room and feel like she and her child are unwanted. After becoming a mother, I looked forward every week to church and getting out and being around others. I craved social interaction after a week of being at home. Instead of church being a thing I looked forward to, I would constantly worry about the baby crying and being asked to leave the service. How humiliating. The worst part is the look of relief on all the other members’ faces as you walk out. In a society that is constantly multi tasking and listening to multiple devices at once, we are to believe that we can't possible learn to tune out or hear the service despite a whimpering child? From talking to friends and attending other churches, I know this is a common practice in churches today. Unfortunately, I think the problem is a little closer to home than we care to admit.

Aug 3, 2011 9:06 PM Guest Sharon  says:
I don't think that having a "childfree" restaurant, store, or coffee shop is about intolerance towards children. I do think it's a very common appeal to be able to eat or shop peacably without the interruption of spine tingling wails of an irrate, bored, hungry infant (or child).  When I was younger in my early 20s i had a much higher tolerance for screaming children and worked in a daycare and nurseries, etc.  However, as i've gotten a little older I must admit its harder to tolerate and ignore when I'm eating out or shopping somewhere after a long days work.  Consider too, that some people have health issues (mental one too) that would really not be able to handle those kinds of high pitched vocals.  I do have family members with mental illnesses and they can't tolerate that level of screeching either.  Many restaurants and public places are still very family friendly, but if others want to make it policy to keep an age limit on children or not tolerate screaming tantrums, then its fine with me.
Aug 3, 2011 9:06 PM Guest Coni  says:
I love children and have "been there" with children acting up in public places, my own and my grandchildren. It seems there is a deeper problem here as there is a pervasiveness of allowing children to do anything and everything they please while in public.They run around and misbehave in the most unrestricted ways. I make sure I comment when I see a well-behaved child. There seems to be a fear today that if parents discipline their children, they will be condemned. When we attend our small summer playhouse, children are welcome. However, an announcement is clearly given before the play begins that IF children are acting up and disturbing others, they should be taken out to the lobby. Isn't that just common sense? If your child becomes unruly, shouldn't you have the common decency to take the child out somewhere? Good grief! I'm not so sure that I would ban children from an eating establishment or other places. It seems it could open up a whole new can of worms. All parents have to do is use common sense. IF your child is obviously disturbing others, simply take them out. I do sympathize with restaurants who attempt to please their patrons, and a disturbance can taint someone's dinner experience. I don't advocate banning children from restaurants. Parents just need to use some common sense.
Aug 4, 2011 11:39 AM Guest MARY B.  says:

I BELIEVE IT'S A GROWING INTOLERANCE TOWARD CHILDREN. IT'S WHERE THIS WORLD IS HEADED. THE FAMILY UNIT IS LOOKED DOWN UPON. YOUR E MAIL

IS CONFIRMING IT THIS VERY NIGHT. JUST A FEW HOURS AGO AFTER WE GOT OUT OF BIBLE STUDY AT CHURCH I TOOK MYSELF, MY 2 GIRLS AND 2 MORE

GIRLS FROM CHURCH OUT FOR PIZZA. WE'VE BEEN TO THIS PIZZA PLACE BEFORE, NOTHING FANCY AT ALL, BUT EXCELLENT PIZZA. I DON'T KNOW IF THIS LADY IS THE OWNER OR A WAITRESS THAT HAS BEEN THERE FOREVER. ANYWAY, WHEN WE ENTER SHE ASKS IF SHE CAN HELP US, MYSELF AND 4 GIRLS UNDER 12 YEARS OF AGE. I SAID WE WOULD LIKE A BOOTH. SHE SAYS SHE DOESN'T HAVE ANY. SO I SAY WE CAN SIT HERE BY THE ENTRANCE AND PULL UP AN EXTRA CHAIR. SHE SAYS NO, YOU WILL BE IN THE WAY THERE. SO AFTER WAITING 5 MINS. SHE SAYS YOU CAN SIT IN 2 SEPARATE TABLES IN THE BAR AREA. AFTER I SIT DOWN AND THE GIRLS GO TO WASH UP, SHE SAYS THERE'S NO RUNNING OR SCREAMING ALOUD BECAUSE SHE COULD DROP A PIZZA ON SOME ONE AND CUSTOMERS DON'T LIKE NOISY CHILDREN. IN SO MANY WORDS I DID NOT FEEL WELCOMED AT ALL. SO I GET UP

TO USE THE REST ROOM AND WALK TO THE SECOND ROOM WHERE THE TABLES AND BOOTHS ARE-AND LOW AND BEHOLD THERE IS AN EMPTY BOOTH.

SHE TOTALLY LIED TO ME, JUST BECAUSE I HAD 4 YOUNG GIRLS WITH ME.  HOW RUDE!! PTL THOUGH, I JUST POLITELY GOT THE GIRLS AND WALKED OUT

AND SAID TO HER, SORRY TO INCONVIENCE YOU. AFTER I WALKED OUT I WAS SOMEWHAT UPSET BECAUSE I FELT DISCRIMINATED AGAINST BECAUSE I HAD KIDS WITH ME. WE DROVE TO STEAK AND SHAKE DOWN THE ROAD AND ENJOYED AN EXCELLENT MEAL WITH EXCELLENT SERVICE- DEFINITELY A KID FRIENDLY RESTAURANT!! I WILL NEVER GO BACK TO THAT PIZZA PLACE AGAIN EVEN IF THEIR PIZZA IS GOOD, IT'S THE PRINCIPLE. THANKS AGAIN FOR

JUSTIFYING MY THOUGHTS THIS EVENING. GOD BLESS YOU ALL AND THANKS A MILLION FOR YOUR WEBSITE. I AM A SINGLE MOTHER AND YOU HELP ME

IN MORE WAYS THAN YOU WILL EVER KNOW. THANKS SOO MUCH!!!! MARY B.

Aug 3, 2011 9:08 PM Guest Howard  says:
I appreciate that there are two sides reflected in the comments here. I'm the father of three (now in their later 20s, thank Goodness!), and nothing is worse than being in a restaurant (or captive on an airplant) next to unruly children.  At least part of the problem is that the culture seems to have no expectation that a parent exerts any disciplinary or tutorial influence on a child - much less control!  I've traveled for business in Germany, where it is common for people to have their well-controlled dogs come into a restaurant with them, and it is also common for someone who brought in a child who becomes loud to be asked to leave.  A young child whose ears hurt as a jet descends may be unavoidable, but the child's behavior in a restaurant SHOULD be the responsibility of the parent.  If parents took as active an interest in this as German dog owners, restaurants wouldn't have to make before-the-fact rules.  Traveling families need to eat, too; but they can select locations (or fast food places where you eat in your own car) that will accommodate them.  Families with small children can either take responsibility for their kids' behavior or stay home and save money.  Children who are models of polite, quiet behavior would probably be welcome (like the German shepherd) even where the restaurant has a "policy" excluding them.  A kid who can't behave until he's in high school probably never will behave properly - and some of them grow up to be parents of the unruly ones we see.  I suggest a full understanding of Ps. 127:3 is not to insist on one's "rights" as a parent or feel picked on by a stated policy, but to work with the children so that the age their behavior doesn't infringe on others is as young as possible.  We are to be at peace with all men "as much as lies within you" and that can begin with this issue, instead of being paranoid about how we are treated by a business.
Aug 3, 2011 9:08 PM Guest eva  says in response to Gina:
I agree totally!  I had 2 children - 11 months apart and I was never afraid to take them out to eat because they were disciplined as quickly in public as they were at home.  Rarely did I have to take them out of the restaurant to remind them that they needed to behave.  And my youngest was a difficult child - but consistency in training is the key.
Aug 3, 2011 9:08 PM Guest Sherri  says:

I do not think the childless restuarants is positive idea. It reminds me of the childless housing areas. It contributes to the anti-family feelings that are all around us now (in film, some housing areas, and even schools).

I grew up in a large family and there were always children around. When I go out in public, I expect to see anyone and everyone. Crying infants/children don't bother me, especially if they are being taken care of warmly & lovingly, by their Mom or Dad. That's the way life is. If you don't want to be around children (maybe because your not used to it?) then you can go home to the privacy of your own home.

I don't believe there should be any law that says owners have to allow children into their establishments, but I do hope it does not start a new trend. There are already many things that are helping to destroy family life, living together, divorce, the "push" for gay marriage, etc. We need to work towards strengthening familes in every way we can.

Aug 4, 2011 11:43 AM Guest Anne O.  says:
This is a sign of the decline of our culture which is permeated with a sad anti- child mentality. It is a travesty. On the other hand one can see why adults grow weary of enduring undisciplined unruly children who have no clue how to behave because their parents are so ill equipped in child training skills. What more can we expect in a society that views children as basically good rather than the percious adorable little bundles of rebellion that they are? Without a Biblical view of human beings there is no basis for properly training a child and once again the poor children are the ones who lose out most in an adult world gone irrational.
Aug 4, 2011 11:43 AM Guest Roger H.  says:
I would sooner spend my time in a restaurant with a noisy child next to me than a plane ride next to somebody's smelly dog. At least kids are our species and vital for our future. The noisy child may one day be fighting to defend our homeland. I am sick of the elevation of dogs to the value or higher of kids in our society. I frequently see bumper stickers on cars that read "My dog is smarter than your kid". We are becoming a society in decline where people prefer dumb dogs to kids with potential.
Aug 3, 2011 9:10 PM Guest Mary  says:

I think it is fine to have restaurants who want to cater to adults.  I like a quiet place to eat and talk if I am acutally going out to have a good time and to eat and to talk.

i didn't take my three children out a lot when they were small.  What would have been the point?  The food isn't that wonderful.  The environment isn't that wonderful.  One can learn manners and behavior at home, practicing in a restaurant is not necessary in my opinion.  About nine or ten years of age is plenty soon.  Speaking about disruptive restaurant settings, I have been intimidated and felt uncomfortable around  high and drinking male teenagers hanging out and talking trash at an informal food place.

Nope, I say keep the kids at home and let them enjoy their meal, their parents, their environment, and their siblings.

Aug 4, 2011 4:16 PM Guest Layman J.  says:
This is another very good example where the free enterprise system needs to be allowed to rule.  We never had much problem with our kids in public eateries, but I understand the dilemma.  The question is, what do we do about this issue in the public domain.  If we start lobbying our legislators to write more law mandating non-discrimination against children in public eateries, motels, or any other public setting, we nurture that insatiable appetite to demand rights for some at the expense of others.  We already have far too much of that, taking from some to give to others, from social security on the grand scale to the preferences for homosexuals on the small scale.  Let people choose for themselves in the free market place what businesses are going to prosper by catering to families with children or people without.  Then there will always be those smart business people who fill the void others don't market to.
Aug 3, 2011 9:15 PM Guest Sherilyn M  says:
It saddens me to see so many take on the " we need a break from children" attitude and yet claim children are a blessing.  Jesus actually became indignant at the disciples when they had such an attitude.  When are we going to be more Christ-like?!!  Parents, take your child training seriously and teach your children diligently so they will be a blessing. Maybe we can say an encouraging word to those parents whose children do behave in public and maybe try to encourage those who are struggling.  I say we forbid them not!!!
Aug 4, 2011 12:41 PM Guest Jim T.  says:

There are some great thoughts in this blog.  Personally, I love seeing parents training their children in church, while many churches have become segragated with little or no interaction with children in adult services..  I also agree with the thought of our form of culture where children are not allowed in bars, strip clubs, theaters where un-family friendly movies are shown etc..  I love seeing parents training their children in grocery stores by drawing them into the selection process.  I feel badly for children who have parents who don't know the art of raising up a child in the way that he or she should go.  I had to spend much time in the Bible for instruction on how to be a proper dad, husband and neighbor.

Sometines the training includes the parent being sensitive to the setting and capitalizing by removing the child with love so the child experiences restriction and will learn to act appropriately.

Aug 3, 2011 9:17 PM Guest Judy  says:
I too have mixed emotions on this subject.  I have 5 children and 16 grandchildren and 5 great grandchildren.  When I took my kids out they knew they had better behave or I would take them out to the car and correct them, in those days it wasn't against the law to spank your kids.  Then we would return to the meal and finish in the manner that was expected.  When my husband and I go out the a meal and there are families there that their children are well behaved, we always make a point to go to them before we leave and thank them for having a pleasant dinner with their well behaved family.  The parents just glow when we tell them this.  I think if kids are not behaving it is up to managment to ask them to do something  or leave.  As far as movies go, I agree with those who said if it kepeps young ones away from movies they shouldn't be at but the parents take them anyway, GREAT.  I remember one movie I went to that had raw sex in it and there was a boy about 10 sitting in front of me.  I was so embarressed but the father didn't seem to mind.  Parent are to blame for the way their children act out.
Aug 4, 2011 12:45 PM Guest Charles  says:

First off, let me say that I have three children.  I have absolutely no problem with establishments deciding not to allow children in their facilities.  There are times when I go out that I get tired of having to listen to kids who are acting up and completely undisciplined by their parents.  So having some places for adults only is a great idea.  As someone else pointed out, if too many places go child free, other people will open up businesses that will allow children and make a profit off it.

 

Ultimately I think the reason places are going child free is because in society as a whole people are not parenting their children.  Part of that may be because of the nanny state that so many states are moving towards when it comes to disciplining children.  It wasn't that long ago that if you had to take your child out behind the wood shed and spank them, you could and it was an effective deterrent for children to behave.  Now before everyone goes ballistic here, that does not mean that you can abuse children.  But nowadays you can be arrested for child abuse for spanking and lose your children.  Children know that and know that all they have to do is tell someone and they can get their parents in trouble.  We need to get back to where we can truly discipline our kids, even with spankings, without having to be afraid of the state coming in and arresting us or taking the children away.

 

That being said there are ways without spanking that can be effective.  I think spankings need to be limited to when they do something that could cause serious injury to themselves or someone else or they just simply continue to misbehave or ignore other forms of discipline repeatedly.  For my own children, one of the most effective ways to get them to behave in public was if one of them acted up or was not listening, we packed everyone back up in the car, went home, dropped the trouble maker off and either grandpa, his wife, or someone would stay with the trouble maker while the other two got to go back out and have fun.  The trouble maker got to sit at home in their room.  Doesn't take losing out on too many outings for kids to get the message.

Aug 3, 2011 9:20 PM Guest Diane B  says:

I feel that extending ourselves to help others is God's request of us all. How about a printed sheet giving helpful hints to anyone coming in to eat.

1. If a child has one favorite soft toy or book, it can help to occupy that child until the food comes. Parents should bring finger foods for the very young who can't take the pains in the tummy. For a slightly older childer, parental agreement that one or the other will excort the child out to the car, until the food arrives at the table. For the child that has developed a flu or whatever, asking for take-home boxes would relieve others of the meal disturbance, Leaving the restaurant when it becomes obvious that the child is not going to cooperate would serve as a lesson the a demanding child that this is obviously not to be a nice family night out. Many parents today have not learned what their options are in these situations, what to do to prepare for the "what ifs....." or how to distract. Out of frustration or embarrassment the parents that have no backup plans or ideas can often end up making the situation worse by being too loud or physical themselves toward the child. Children, as you have said, can be very unpredictable, but helping the child feel heard and listening for the child's heart on a regular basis can help children learn to express themselves in more socially acceptable ways and trust the solutions of the parents. The loss of the money for a spoiled night out can become a very good investment in wise handling of this kind of "emergency" decisions. Pray each day "God be with us today, that we may love each other as You would have us love and walk with us through each new struggle of life.

Aug 3, 2011 9:20 PM Guest Karen  says:

I think there are 2 aspects to this:

1. Part of what is going on may come from the fact that there are so many children that are not taught to behave at all; maybe there would not be so many places going child free if there were more well-behaved children...it seems that parenting skills have gone out the window.

2. With that being said, even the best of kids have meltdowns and can be loud; having a childfree zone could be a pleasant escape.

(On a side note, I am a doctor and when I come into the exam room and find drawers open, kids spinning around on the doctors seat or medical supplies being used as toys, it makes me want to have a 'no kids in the exam room with mommy' policy.  What happened to teaching kids respect?)

Aug 3, 2011 9:20 PM Guest Andy I.  says:
I happen to agree wholeheartedly with Gina regarding unruly kids in public becoming the norm.I personally believe that if enough people complained,it would become law for kids under a certain age (under 6)? just as with the ban on smoking on buses & trains.I don't mean to sound as if I'm against children,but I chose not to have any & why should I have to put up with screaming,running brats
Aug 4, 2011 11:57 AM Guest Elaine A.  says:
We  raised 5 children plus 2 grand children. When they threw a fit in a restaurant we promptly left with the children to teach them that we do not go out to enjoy a meal in public if they do not behave. It only took 1 or 2 instances to teach them that you behave and  must not disturb others who are out to have a nice evening with their family. All our children and grand children are grown up now and teach their children the same. If my husband and I go to a restaurant  and are forced to be seated near unruly children we get up and leave . We do not pay money to eat out and be made miserable for the evening and people with badly behaved children should be respectful enough to not force others to endure the noise and stress of their kids .
Aug 3, 2011 9:24 PM Guest Mom23  says:

Well, I think this is disgusting and represents how devalued the family is in the US.  But I am not surprised.

 

In fact, my family has been looking for a church, and we visited a local mega church one Sunday.  The "greeter" informed me that my infant was not welcome in the sanctuary and that in fact no children under 2 were welcome in the sanctuary and I was to leave my (happy, content, smilling and cooing infant) in the care of people I have never seen or met before on the other end and down stairs from the santuary.

 

I could hardly stop laughing when we received a "welcome letter" touting how Biblical said church is and how they base all their decisions on Scripture.  Very sad. They are completely clueless.

Aug 4, 2011 11:58 AM Guest Kenneth D.  says:
I think that a business owner has every right to choose who patronize his place of business. If he feels that young children bother his other patrons, he has every right to exclude them. If other people object to the business owner's rules, they can refuse to patronize his(or her's) establishment and that will let the business owner know whether he made a proper decision by how much business he has or doesn't have. Too many parents have the idea that children should be not corrected when they don't behave properly and that should NOT be the business owner's responsibility.
Aug 4, 2011 11:48 AM Guest Rosalie G.  says:

I have absolutely nothing against children, as I had four of my own.  I regularly sit in church and hear children screaming around me and usually am not bothered by the sounds (unless the parent permits it to go on too long). 

 

I suppose that the "trend" towards childless restaurants and other establishments reflects our society's impatience and/or intolerance of children and child-raising.  However, previous child-friendly generations had ways of restricting/hiding/controlling children, too.  Remember the phrase, "Children should be seen and not heard," for example.  Or the practice of having children eat separately from the adults, not being allowed to be present when their parents were entertaining guests, etc.

 

Part of the problem is that these days children are taken everywhere by unthinking adults, and when the children cause disruption everybody suffers.  Perhaps it would improve things if adults knew that they couldn't just haul their little darlings along wherever they go.

 

Many parents don't know how to discipline their kids anymore, it seems.  There's nothing more irritating to me than watching an inept parent with a noisy/obnoxious child in a public place.  From the grocery store to the restaurant to church on Sunday morning, an out-of-control child and his clueless parents can be one of the most maddening things on earth.  If it takes business and restaurant owners restricting kids from their establishments in order to put an end to this nonsense, more power to them. 

Aug 4, 2011 11:49 AM Guest Jim K.  says:

I definitely support the restaurants right not to allow children, and would indeed support them with my dollars.  I have to agree with many of the other comments here about how children are either too young to understand the situation, or unfortunately, have not been TRAINED by the parents in how to act in such a public setting.  I can't begin to tell you how many meals my wife and I have had ruined in nice restaurants by the inappropriate behavior of children.  Don't get me wrong, there are places we frequent where we expect to see, interact, and even get a kick out of how children behave and enjoy it... But not on our anniversary in an upscale restaurant.  It's amazing to me how as a culture we have lost the respect and decency of our manners when out in public, and that goes for all of those acting like out of control children no matter how old they might be!

Aug 3, 2011 9:28 PM Guest Dixie  says:
I am the mother of five. I  Like children.  That said, I am apalled at the lack of discipline in some of today's children.  Who is at fault?  Parents?  Sorry, I had dinners ruined by running, screaming, throwing children. As if restaurants were a playground.   I have been on a plane where for two hours a baby screamed in the seat in back of me.  Parents that don't want to be the boss, will have the child be the boss by default.
Aug 3, 2011 9:28 PM Guest karen  says in response to Susan:
I agree with Susan and a number of others who have said that the problem is with the parents today who choose to not discipline their children and then inflict their disobedient children on the rest of us.  Children aren't taught how to behave at home or in public because their parents don't want to warp their individuality or don't believe that spanking is appproriate.  We see the result of that already in the way teens and young adults think that society owes them just because they were born. Respect for your elders isn't taught either. I also believe that children are a blessing.  I took my 4 grandchildren to the grocery store and when I was leaving a woman stopped me, she had been behind me for much of the time we were in the store, and asked how I managed to get the kids to be so obedient.  I said that their parents taught them how to behave in public and when they asked for something and were told "no" they didn't ask again. As a society we are failing our children when we allow them to 'run the show'. 
Aug 3, 2011 9:29 PM Guest Barbara  says:

I do believe there may be a place for some child free areas. I would hate to plan an expensive, romantic evening and have it spoiled by a screaming child.  But once you start banning children there is a risk of it becoming a problem of discriminatoion.

 

Unfortunaltally This is not a new issue and we should not be surprised. This has been going on in our churches for years.  We personally, are having a difficult time finding a chruch that does not segreagte the ages every Sunday. It is crazy that some kids/adults go off to college having never attended a regular service, having spent all their church years in "age appropriate" ministries. Don't get me wrong I love age approprite activies but not when they take away from a Sunday morning family time.  You know if we all took our kids into church with us and showed them they are capable of sitting quitely for an hour or so the community at large may just take notice and not be so offend by our children.

Aug 3, 2011 9:29 PM Guest Kelly  says:
I too saw the original Yahoo article and forwarded it to my husband and we had a long talk re the implications of such trends. Like many of the comments listed by other readers, we came to the conclusion the businesses are merely responding to patron desires. We have two children ourselves but have been on long flights, in restaurants and in movies where children were allowed to be out of control and effectively ruin the experience for other patrons. Though I do not like the trend I think business offering "kid free" days is only getting at the symptom. There are a lot of parents who have had children but are not actively investing in the socialization, development of those children as respectul, obedient and well mannered kids. I have a very strong willed child who can be loud and make a scene. However; when that occurs there are pretty stiff consequences and as other readers mentioned, the behavior is addressed quickly so as not to bother those around us. Unfortunately, I think this is a sign people are becoming less tolerant of children but I do not think it is without cause...how about we get back to the parenting standards of scripture.
Aug 3, 2011 9:31 PM Guest leslie  says:
I embrace Psalm 127:3...CHILDREN ARE A BLESSING...and absolutely nothing less.  Sure, as a mother of 5 children, ages 20,15, 12, 10, and 8, there are times when I enjoy being alone or with my husband, or with other adults, but there are plenty of times to do that without children.  If I or we as a couple decide to go to a place such as a restaurant or store or park or movie theatre or WHATEVER, and there are other people there with children, that is their choice and our choice to go there.  We can choose to go to a restaurant maybe where lots of children would not be, or maybe at a later hour if we wanted it to be quieter or something.  But, children have never interupted our lives anywhere.  We have never felt like we wanted them to be not allowed in.  As our own children get older, we are realizing how quickly the time passes and how soon they will be gone from living under our roof and leaving to cleave, and it is very bittersweet.  If anything, when we hear a baby cry, or see a fussy toddler, or a fidgety young person, it makes us remember some of our times, and if anything offer a hand to help if possible, not to shun.  Praise the Lord we live in a free country, America, and have the God given right to be, regardless of our age, race, health, etc...We must pray for this to continue to be the case, and shiver if this trend continues with children being looked at differently.
Aug 3, 2011 9:31 PM Guest Annie V.  says:
Although I believe that business owners have the right to establish whatever rules they want, I personally would NOT patronize a  restaurant that does not allow children to eat there.  I find that mentality offensive to those of us who DO teach our children how to behave in public. 
Aug 4, 2011 6:37 AM Guest Tony  says:
Have those doing this thought of the possibility of the children growing up and having a dislike for "old folks" in puplic places?????? 
Aug 4, 2011 6:39 AM annabella92 annabella92    says:

Certainly children are a blessing. However, many parents of today forget what else is written in the bible: educate your child.

I fully support the decisions of the restaurants, shops and airline! This is the answer to parents who can not bring up their children

so that they would have manners: just accept your freedom ends where mine starts! Do not disturb me! I do not pay a first class ticket

to be disturbed the whole flight.

Sorry! But yes, I do agree with the others.

Aug 4, 2011 6:43 AM Guest Sherry  says:
I see kids throwing fits in grocery stores and restaurants and the parents do nothing.  I think in this day and age when parents cannot discipline their children in public, for fear of being turned into CPS, they should remove their child from the situation (place), but they don't.  They just continue going through the store with their child screaming.  The generation raising children now, seem to have no desire to discipline their children and they are certainly not teaching their children any respect.  So, yes, I agree, to keep them out of certain places or at certain times.  There's nothing worse than trying to eat a pleasant meal or have a conversation and you can't hear the person beside you because of some screaming kid.
Aug 4, 2011 6:44 AM Guest Doris  says:

I'm one who desires grandchildren very much & my heart grows weary waiting for the some day talk. However I've also noted in public places how young children seemingly are so very undisciplined. Too many times in Walmart young children are allowed to screem throughout the whole store. I feel what we allow them to do as parents is what they will do. I say to parents where have you set up your limits & why are you allowing them to behave this way. I'm sorry but I see this as a growing trend to let, allow, & not discipline todays generation.

Aug 4, 2011 6:47 AM Guest Kevin  says:
They are private businesses. If they do not want to allow children (or elderly, middle age, teenagers...) That is there perogative, then let the market bear what it will.
Aug 4, 2011 6:48 AM Guest Sue  says in response to Rise:
I definately agree with Rise. How often do we see parents ignore the behavior of their children simply because it will require an effort on their part to make their children behave. I see too many parents give their children everything and anything they want just so the child will go away and leave them alone. I have heard children screaming the whole way through a store "You promised me a toy!" Children need to learn the consequences of their actions. You do not do your children any favors by allowing them act any way they please.
Aug 4, 2011 6:51 AM Guest John  says:
Now I do believe that there are places that parents shouldn't take children but isn't that a parents responsibility?  Alsl different behavior is appropriate depending on the place and that is true for adults and children!  Now I have to admint, I'm a biased children lover and as a parent, I've learned to let certain sounds pass quickly through my ears without mulling over them!  I personally think adults need to grow up and kids need to be kids!
Aug 4, 2011 12:22 PM Guest Paula H.  says:
I just returned two weeks ago from a trip to Malaysia.  The trip included 14 plane flights, 9 of which were on Malaysia Airlines.  I think their ban reflects not their disdain for children, but the absolute inability for parents in Malaysia (and elsewhere) to control their children.  We saw many, many screaming fits and not one parent who had a clue as to what to do.   I have 10 children and I love all children dearly, but even I didn't want to be around the screaming.  My pity was for the children who were not controlled in any way.  For instance, we saw a dad with Prince something embroidered on his shirt in an airport in Malaysia.    He had four burka-clad wives and 3 boys in the 8 to 12 age range.  They ran amok setting off alarms in the airport, climbing on decorative features and making themselves a complete nuisance.  These boys had five parents and not one even attempted to get the children to control themselves.  I rejoiced that they were all sitting in first class!!!  I cannot begin to tell you how many children we saw laying on the floor kicking and screaming with parents staring at them in complete bewilderment.  What's an airline to do?  Ban those folks to economy!  If you had paid 10 times the price to sit in first class, would you want to have wild children screaming and climbing on you for 20 hours?  I think even the most compassionate of you would be wanting some relief!
Aug 4, 2011 6:56 AM Guest Betsy  says:

The rise of adults only businesses is a reflection on the way parents today allow their children to behave in public. When our children (now 30, 27 and 25) were little, if we took them to a restaurant, we were mindful and respectful of their behavior and the impact of loud or crying children on those around us. We took them outside if they were misbehaving. When is the last time you've seen a young parent do that? We've sat through temper tantrums that parents simply ignore! When we are out in restaurants and other public places, we are shocked at the lack of oversight and discipline exhibited by so many young parents. It is almost as if their children are invisible --- they do not seem to see or hear anything their children are doing. What, for example, happened to  the directive to children to "use your indoor voice"? They are allowed to talk loudly, scream, do whatever they wish to get attention. Those of us that do not wish to have our evening out spoiled by rowdy, loud children should have options. It has nothing to do with valuing children (we're looking forward to the birth of our first grandchild) and everything to do with children learning respectful behavior and parents exhibiting authority. I am all in favor of adults only venues and would definitely support them.

Aug 4, 2011 6:57 AM Guest Harry  says:

Funny I read this email this morning, since last night my wife and went to eat at a local restaurant.  I am in the military and there are many young families here, as you can imagine.  As we were entering there were two young boys standing near the door, an older couple was leaving and the lady was quite short with them, the boys weren't in the way but she seemed to be very annoyed.  She even called them "little monsters"!  Should the children have been more controlled by their mothers?  Probably, but since the fathers were probably deployed and the mothers had their hands full, I felt like they deserved a little slack, so to speak.  I felt sorry for the lady who was so preturbed witht he kids.  Since my wife and I are empty nesters, I always like to see families out, and wish I could relive the days when our boys were that age.

Aug 4, 2011 6:58 AM bigpapax4 bigpapax4    says:
I believe this is a sad statement about our society today, and unfortunately, this is only the beginning. It is going to get much worse. The so-called tolerant are becoming intolerant of children of all things????? What's next? Will I be reading that American society are not allowing the elderly or Christian's into restaurants or other public places as well?  
Aug 4, 2011 6:59 AM Guest Lu  says:

My husband & I had 4 kids, traveled with them and took them out to dinner.  That is how they learn appropriate behavior.  There are certain restaurants I would not have taken my kids because they were elegant places that kids should not go because for one thing, the kids would be completely bored and of course act out.  For the most part, people take their kids to kid friendly places and go as a couple to the not so kid friendly restaurants.  I don't think kids should be banned from anywhere, but parents definitely need to understand the limits.  As far as airplanes go, if a parent can afford a first class ticket, then infants should be allowed.  There is more space there to make the child comfortable.  I have way more problems with the 4-5 year old child kicking the back of my seat the whole time than I do a crying infant.

Aug 4, 2011 7:00 AM Guest Sandee  says:

The banning of children points to two disturbing trends.  Children are not being taught how to behave in public places.  Manners are unimportant, causing those without children to not want to be around them.  Also, many adults are choosing to be "childless" because children are viewed as an inconvenience and a nuisance. Points to the liberal viewpoint that children are a burden and each family should be limited in size.

Aug 4, 2011 7:01 AM kychris kychris    says:
I'd have to agree with the two themes in many of the previous comments.  With some younger adults choosing not to have children, there is a growing intolerance, possibly minor, that views children in low regard.  On the other hand, some children are not well trained or are having a bad day.  There are days when my own two boys or I are having a bad day.  Maybe we should make the choice to stay home and not bother other people when that occurs.
Aug 4, 2011 7:03 AM Guest Sue  says in response to Agnes:
I love kids, but there are places that are neither kid friendly or or not meant for kids.  I think the restaurants are right on in not allowing small children in to their establishments.  Bars do it and I haven't heard a complaint about that!  Unfortunately there are too many parents who have no clue on proper etiquette for their children or they simply don't care.  I am quite tired of screaming, demanding kids in upscale restaurants.
Aug 4, 2011 12:26 PM Guest Terry  says:

OBVIOUSLY if a restaurant is closing its doors to children, there is a problem in that restaurant with bad behavior.  They have a right to please their usual customers with this new requirement.  There is no danger whatsoever that this will become the norm.

Children don't belong in every venue.( An elaborate wedding, a casino, a nightclub, a 5 star restaurant in the evening hours, certain plays and concerts, business conferences, black tie affairs of any kind, etc..,,)

It is not anti child to exclude them from these events.  If your child behaves, enjoy them and bring them to many places, but they still don't need access to every place.  Why not try lunch out in a better restaurant and leave the dinner hours to adults?

 

Most importantly, if you want young couples to embrace family life, then don't expose them to the worst in children's behavior.  In other words, if you yourself look disheveled, harried and overtired while you wrangle your unruly brood around town, don't expect them to jump for joy at the idea of giving up their pleasant lifestyle for the apparent drudgery of family life.  Make a good example of yourselves to others by wisely choosing your public outings.  Dress nicely, look happy, go out at the time of day when kids are rested and not half starving.  Everyone will benefit.

Aug 4, 2011 7:08 AM Guest Sandra  says:
When kids go to public places, the lack of discipline and training by the parents in the home is displayed. "Train a child in the way he should go," is biblical (Proverbs 22: 6). Why should the public suffer the consequences of poor parenting. I understand there are times a child is a child after all they have inherited the human nature of misbehavior and are not perfect, but loud, uncontrolled behavior because of irresponsible parenting is the reason why restrictions have become popular.
Aug 4, 2011 12:27 PM Guest Lynne B.  says in response to Susan:
I like the way you worded your comment.  I don't believe the intolerance is against the children so much as parents who have not properly trained their children.  Usually you can tell pretty quickly the  "outburst" from their normal way of acting.  And choices for people are not a bad thing.  Why is it bad for people without (their) children to choose to go to a place with a time without children?
Aug 4, 2011 7:17 AM Guest Jon  says:
I was very bothered by loud screaming kids in a restaurants before my daughter was born.  Since she is no longer a baby, a crying baby is sometimes nice to hear again.  However, when she was 18 months until she was about 4, it was very unpleasant for us (and her) at a restaurant.  She was never loud, just had to keep busy and hopping.  We decided it was best not to go out and eat too often during this stage.  I have seen parents just let their kids scream and run inside restaurants and it is very annoying.  I believe that it is the parents with these annoying kids that need to be banned from restaurants for not keeping a tighter leash on their children.  Let's face it, a 2 to 3 year old child has no desire to be at a sit down restaurant anyway.  I do not mind the restrictions.  I can always choose to go to another restaurant if I choose to, the restaurant owners should have a right to allow their patrons to enjoy their meals the way the owner wants.  We complain too much already about government being too quick to make more laws.  Let the restaurant owners make their rules and I will live by mine, if they don't mesh, then I can spend my money elsewhere.
Aug 4, 2011 7:17 AM Guest Kathy  says:

As a mother of 4 children and Granny to one, I have allot of experience with children in restaurants.  As stated above, children are unpredictable.

But, children can be trained to behave in public.  A wise parent would not take a small child to an expensive eatery.  If there are white table clothes and candles it is a sure bet there is not a toddler menu.  There are many "family" restaurants that are able to accommodate children and are prepared with color books , sippy cups and free cookies!

I think the real issue is parents are not training their children to follow social codes of conduct.  People are tired of "tolerating" miserable little brats.  When I traveled via airlines, when my children were young, I was often told how well behaved my children were.  To teach a child to say please and thankyou seems to have gone by the wayside.  I have found that a polite child receives praise from flight attendants , we have even had a pilot come to us and give us "wings" as a gift for good behavior.  Now, my children are not perfect by any means, but simple politeness goes a very long way.

"Modern" parents who do not discipline their children are reaping their reward and the rest of us are suffering the consequences.

I do not believe there is a distain for children, just unruly ones.

Aug 4, 2011 7:19 AM Guest Suzy  says:

I believe that this issue stems more from a lack of discipline rather than an intolerance for kids. I have grown up watching how differently my cousins were raised from me and my sibilings. We were spanked and grounded and turned out fine. If anything, we learned to respect our parents and others around us. My cousins, on the other hand, received time out (which they always got up from and were never punished) or my aunts and uncles would "talk" to them. Over time, I began to realize that my cousins knew that they could get away with almost anything because there really was no punishment for the behavior. They ran the show and their parents. Parents MUST START PARENTING AND DISCIPLINING their children!

 

It's a shame that there is a need for "childless" locations and events because of this very issue. I do understand that even well behaved children do act up at times. But when I grew up, "the look" from Dad or the threat of a spanking made me straighten up right away. A BIG thank you to my parents for disciplining me and teaching me how to behave properly and respect others.

Aug 4, 2011 7:19 AM Guest Janet  says:
I love children very much!  I agree that most restaurants should be able to say "No children  during the hours from 7:00 - closing, but to ban children all together...not too cool. Same for movie theaters and shopping to set hours for adult only.  We have started going to dinner really early, like around 4:30pm and rarely have the noise problem anymore.
Aug 4, 2011 12:52 PM Guest Red  says:
I have no problem with any business establishment forbidding children that the parents don't seem to attempt to train and discipline.
Aug 4, 2011 7:21 AM Guest Sue  says:
I have 3 children and took them basically everywhere when they were babies/toddlers.  That said, I never took them to PG movies, much less R rated.  And, I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that I completely understand hearing a baby/small child let out a big cry in a restaurant/movie--BUT, that should be an immediate call to the parent to get up and outside or to a hallway/etc with the child until they calm down.  Especially in this economy, when we eat out anywhere, it is a treat and I don't want to listen to someone's child scream for 5 or 10  minutes (or even longer!) while everyone at the table ignores it.  I think restaurants should post signs telling parents where to take screaming children and then the manager should make sure they are asked to take them there if they are oblivious.

 

One of my biggest annoyances was going to see my child in a PTO play and not being able to hear the play because parents wouldn't remove screaming babies.  Any scream should be a moving scream towards an exit.  This is in no way "anti-child".  I don't really even like the idea of child-free restaurants, but I think that restaurants may need to post signs stating that screaming children should be quickly taken to a different area to quiet down.  This was obvious to almost everyone 30 years ago, but quite a few (not all, but a large percentage) of today's parents didn't read the memo.

 

Airplanes are miserable for everyone, no matter the age.  Think twice before you inflict an airplane on a small child.  Sometimes, it is absolutely necessary.  For this reason, I really think airlines should designate an area of the plane for parents with young children.  I think they could even put a noise-reducing shield of some kind to contain the noise.

Aug 4, 2011 7:21 AM Guest Shani R.  says in response to Susan:
I agree with Susan!  The problem is parents not teaching their kids how to behave in public.  If more parents would "step up" and learn to discipline their children, then there would be less instances of disruptive behavior. Spare the rod, spoil the child.
Aug 4, 2011 7:21 AM Guest Penny  says:
Bkgd: I am a GenY girl with a toddler and husband living in an urban part of the Twin Cities working FT outside of the home.  I'd say these types of moves are a result of fewer adults choosing to have children, and those that do having just one.  I'd say it's also a metter of so many cultures converging on a regular basis---and the intolerance that can foster.  For example, some people are comfortable (culturally) with breastfeeding their two year old in a very public way.  Others, are more prone to being germ-a-phobic and uncomfortable with loud noises to begin with....  I can't say it's right to villify small business people who are responding to an obvious request on their patrons' part.  I mean: we're okay with having "Family Friendly" restaurants and vacations and yada-yada, too, right?  Let them eat cake!
Aug 4, 2011 7:24 AM Guest Lanni  says:

Years ago, when our four children were young, my husband and I managed to save up for a "date night" and paid a sitter so we could have dinner in a nice restaurant, undisturbed.  Of course, as Agnes described, it didn't turn out that way.  A couple seated near us had three loud, annoying, bratty children with them.  The two pre-schoolers ran around the room, crawled beneath our table at least three times, fought and shrieked constantly, while the baby sat in a highchair and screamed non-stop.  The parents ignored them and calmly conversed over their dinner.  Our evening was ruined.  The restaurant management should have intervened, but didn't.  When we finished our dinner, my husband stopped at their table and gave the man his business card.  He then said, "Please call me before you plan another evening out.  I can give you the name of a trustworthy sitter, and I hope you'll call her so that you don't take these kids with you again and ruin somebody else's evening the way you've ruined ours."  He walked away, and left the couple sitting there with open mouths.

 

I hope they got the message, but I doubt it.  The problem is not with the children, the problem is with gutless parents who for whatever reason will not stand up to their kids and demand good behavior.  We could take our kids anywhere, and often did, but it took consistent discipline and high expectations to mold them into "good citizens."  They're all grown up today,  and are kind, polite, considerate people who are now rearing their own families with the same values.  I would hope that everyone would take charge of their children, and not leave that loophole where Nanny Government can jump in and assume control.

Aug 4, 2011 10:04 AM Guest Gail B.  says:

I think this is the beginning of a "slippery slope" because then they will be banning older people who are too slow or bothersome, handicapped people who require more attention etc.

Children even if at times annoying are part of life.  We were all one at one time and we shouldn't stop any discomfort or annoyance that people, children, pets cause because this is called "LIFE" so live it, enjoy it and some day you'll be looking for the noises of little children when your all alone in a quiet place day in and day out.

Aug 4, 2011 10:04 AM Guest Anne L.  says:

Once, our family was at a very nice resort restaurant during vacation with our two very young children.  As a guest was struggling with a very loud but severely disabled child, the manager of the restaurant was going from table to table asking if patrons were being disturbed; all the people, with or without children, were answering "no" because they realized the difficulty of dealing with this child and that the family was probably trying to enjoy a vacation also.  Thankfully, because everyone had compassion for this family and they were allowed to stay.  Each situation is different.

Many times though, I have witnessed parents allowing their children to "roam" about the restaurant like it was one large playroom without regard to where their child was and who they were disturbing.  I am in favor of some childfree restaurants because when I go out with my husband or a girlfriend, I want to eat and chat in peace and not be interrupted by someone else's child coming to my table, which has happened numerous times, or running amok in the restaurant.

Aug 4, 2011 7:25 AM Guest Nancy A  says:
I'm in an older generation that considered it proper to remove a child temporarity from a restaurant if they were "having a meltdown".  Taking the child outside, to the car, or to the bathroom allowed others to eat in peace.  Others includes the rest of the child's family.  The child had a more private place to become calm enough for the parent to regain attention and manners and then return to the meal.  It seems a lot of children are now placed in daycare settings at four weeks old.  There, they have to compete with others to get attention.  Bad behavior becomes the easiest method of getting an adult to notice you.  Parents are very often both working and face the deadline at daycare, laundry, grocery shopping, etc. at the end of the day.  In their tiredness, children are often allowed to run the aisles of the restaurant, interrupt other diners at their tables, and become a hazzard for wait staff.  It's not just the childless people who bear responsibility for the new rules,  Behaving children are a joy even in an expensive restaurant or theater.  However, parents must realize manners are taught and it's an easier lesson for both parent and child if learned early.
Aug 4, 2011 10:07 AM Guest Julie D.  says:

Last week we and our wheel-chair bound mother ate in a local Fudruckers. Three children, ages approximately 7, 9 and 11 were charging around, horseplaying, and nearly ran into mother. No parent around. After we were seated, the oldest boy and his siblings were pushing and shoving each other over a "game" console situated in the center of the serving area. All at once, the girl was flying through the air and landed on the floor, slid under a table, hitting her head hard. Immediately my husband verbally reprimanded the boy and went to the aid of the girl. The boy "sassed" and yelled at my husband!  As I looked around, other diners were shocked at the scene, but no parent intervened. Later I saw the children at a table with a man, I suppose their father.

 

A baby or toddler's cry? Not a problem. Irresponsible parents with disorderly brats...NO!

Aug 4, 2011 7:26 AM Guest Jennelle M  says:
I love well-behaved children.  It is not their fault if they act up in public places.  It's the parent's fault for not instilling good behavior in their children. You have to practice at home.  I really hate it when children are allowed to leave the table in restaurants and wander around.  Family restaurants are good places for young families to practice good behavior before taking the kids to nicer restaurants.  Maybe restaurants should have a policy of asking families with unruly children to leave and not punish those with good behavior.
Aug 4, 2011 10:12 AM Guest Jason K.  says:
Because we are a free enterprise society still I believe that simple supply and demand will works its way out in this situation.  There will be as many childless businesses or hours as there is demand for or else these businesses will fail if that turns out to not be the right business model.  The problem will occur if our governments start making laws against children attending restaurants etc. 

 

Aug 4, 2011 10:12 AM Guest Dee  says:

I ADORE CHILDREN....HOWEVER,  WHEN WE GO OUT TO EAT,  NO ONE WANTS TO HEAR BABIES OR SMALL CHILDREN SCREAMING AT THE TOP OF THEIR LUNGS AND PARENTS DOING NOTHING ABOUT IT.   If we go to Carabbas,  Outback, Ruths Chris, Olive Garden, Red Lobster, etc.....  it just ruins the meal to hear all that noise.   IF PARENT WILL TAKE THE CHILD OUT UNTIL THEY CALM DOWN, THAT WOULD BE FINE...BUT THEY DON'T......THEY ARE LAZY AND THINK EVERYONE SHOULD HEAR THEM SCREAM AND TAKE OFFENSE IF YOU SAY ANYTHING.

 

THE RULE SHOULD BE,  ALL KIDS OK,  UNLESS CRYING OR SCREAMING WITHOUT IMMEDIATE INTERVENTION FOR QUIET. PLACES LIKE CHUCKIE CHEESE, MCDONALDS, ETC ARE GEARED FOR KIDS AND TODDLERS. 

 

NO ONE SHOULD HAVE TO BE EXPOSED TO CONSTANT SCREAMING WHEN OUT FOR A NICE QUIET DINNER. 

 

MIGHT CONSIDER A KIDS AREA FOR THE PARENTS WITH THEIR CHILDREN IN A SOUND PROOF ROOM SEPARATE FROM THE REST.    BABIES AND KIDS ARE AWESOME,  BUT SO IS SOME DISCIPLINE.  PARENTS NEED TO UNDERSTAND THIS,

Aug 4, 2011 7:27 AM Guest Ken  says:

I am in my 50's and what I have seen change over the last 30 years in restaurants is not so much the kids behavior as it is the unwillingness (or lack of skills) of the parent to deal with the children's behavior. In the last 6 months I have been in 2 different restaurants where children were running, tackling each other, being extra loud, and even standing on tables.  The parents?  Sitting at their own table absorbed in conversation and oblivious to what was going on.  I was about to ask for the manager to do something about the situation in one case ... but at that instant two kids fell off the table, started crying, and finally got their parent's attention.  Shows why we need Focus on the Family!  But if parents won't do the job then I am all in favor of the restaurant owner restricting children.

Aug 4, 2011 7:29 AM Guest Aberdeem  says in response to Ron S. :
Thank you.    I love children but I also love peace and quiet.
Aug 4, 2011 7:29 AM Guest Kathy  says in response to Roger:
Well said Roger
Aug 4, 2011 7:30 AM Guest Kathleen  says:

As most everyone has noted children are truly a blessing.  In fact as I was driving to work this morning I was singing "Jesus Loves the Little Children".  I am now a grandmother to 2 and am expecting a 3rd this month.  I feel truly blessed with my own children and their children but a child-free night occasionally in any arena is nice.  My only concern is that in America we tend to latch onto an idea and go full throttle; America sometimes cannot find a middle ground.

 

My brother was a waiter when my children were small.  My husband and I noted his comments about families.  He stated that many families left such a mess on the floor and were very loud with the children running about knocking into waiters and other customers that when a family came in with young children the waiter/waitresses cringed.  Those comments made such an impression on us that we made sure that our children were well-behaved at home and in public.  A child will act the same way in public - and more so - as they act at home.

 

I also note that many of the comments refer to the 'cost' and that the time out is special and in our economy anything extra such as date night can be a tug on finances so if there is not an adults only venue in your area, pick a time when the venue will be less occupied with children.  Common sense is a wonderful blessing also.  Children are a blessing but an adults only 'time' occasionally is nice.

Aug 4, 2011 7:32 AM Guest Sharon D.  says:
Having read a number of the comments left on this subject I find that I agree with most of them.  However I believe that children need to learn the "social graces" and they need to learn them from their parents.  This training begins in the home.  Table manners and proper behavior are not things you learn "after" you get to a restaurant.  In the early years of our marriage we would have to save up all year to be able to go out to eat on our anniversary and nothing would spoil that meal more than a screaming child and I must admit to some hostility on my part.  Most restaurants are large enough these days to accommodate a section of the restaurant either for "adults only" or for people with children.
Aug 4, 2011 7:32 AM Guest Diana  says:

Our family experienced this 30 years ago in Florida.  I was shocked at the un-welcome atmosphere of this particular restaurant and others on the gulf side of the state.  Retirement communities with signs at the gate saying no children.  Well!  Is this different than the signs of the past excluding blacks.  Have we grown at all.

THEN, I decided that I was equally not interested in their company.

Aug 4, 2011 7:33 AM Guest sharon  says:
I have mixed feelings about this as I am a mother of three.  I truly belive part of the problem is the parents, they don't want to be bothered with parenting.  I understand that children and their "noises" are just a part of life, but I never allowed my children to "howl" in public.  They were told to cry quietly if they must.  Most parents today are not raising their children to be aware of others, they are being trained to be very self-focused.  I found myself very irritated at the movies the other day when a baby started crying and the parent refused to leave the theater with the crying child, that's incredibly discourteous to everyone else in the theater.
Aug 4, 2011 7:34 AM Guest Shannon  says in response to Susan:

Thank you Susan - Beautifully expressed.

 

I quite agree.

Aug 4, 2011 7:36 AM Guest Deanna  says:

It is indeed another sign of the extent of selfishness within our culture. More and more people are focusing on their personal desires, entertainment, and convenience. We need to return to a more outward focus and get back to serving God and each other. When you believe that you are your own god, then anything that requires you to adjust your attitude or plans is an aggrevating source of frustration. "It's all about me" lives on. This destructive perspective is spreading first towards the elderly, then to children, soon to anyone else who just doesn't match up with our picture of perfection. How sad.

Of course, it would be good if parents would exercise some discretion in there choice of a restaurant, etc. recognizing that babies and small children are unable to appreciate, nor appropriately operate within the perameters of a fine establishment. This comes as a difficulty for many parents, however, as our culture has largely lost the ability to distinguish between what is appropriate for adults vs children because so many parents find themselves treating their children as 'equals'. They have always been equal, but they are not the same; they require different boundries and should not be exposed to everything adults are exposed to.

I  pray that God will bring our country back to a place where parents are not afraid to be parents, and children are allowed to be children.

Aug 4, 2011 7:36 AM Guest kevin  says:

Are "No Children" policies inhumane?

Children are natural. As humans, to remove children is unnatural. It spells the end of the human race. This "no children" mindset smacks of eugenics, the fallacy of perfect order. Tolerance for the imperfect nature of man (babies crying, kids misbahaving) is just being human. No tolerance for being human is inhumane. Is this "No Children" policy a trend towards being inhumane? More pointedly, are people who choose not to have children being inhumane?

Most people I know who have chosen not to have children are self-indulgent. Self-indulgent people are not living by God's plan. The Bible says to go forth and multiply, not to save your money to spoil yourself. And to me, therein lies the answer. If you are human, and you demand not to have children around, then you are exhibiting inhumane tendancies.

Aug 4, 2011 7:37 AM Guest Jeff  says:

At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?  And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.  Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.  And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.  But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. (Matt. 18:1-6)

Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.  But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.  And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence. (Matt 19:13-15)

These are the words of Christ regarding children.  I didn't see an addendum that said unless the child is causing a disturbance.  He who lived a perfect life has shown us the way.  I find in reviewing these words that I need to be more understanding.  Christ warned us of the mote/beam thing and that we are not to judge others but work on our own imperfections to become more like him.  See Matt. 7:1-5, and Matt 5:48.  I know that many will seek to justify various view points that are not in harmony with the teachings of the savior.  I struggle with this at times also, but we are to rise above these things and not seek to justify our selves.

Aug 4, 2011 7:37 AM Guest Pamela  says:
I am all for at least some child free restaurants. Our children are now teenagers, so we have very little chance to have a private conversation at home. There are times we would just like to go out to a restaurant and have a nice, quiet meal, without interruption.The restaurants we can afford are usually "family" places and there are usually at least a few little ones there. While we understand the unpredictability of babies, the parents should realize that some people are there to enjoy a conversation without the overwhelming screaming of a child one or two tables away. If our children misbehaved when they were little, we simply took them out to the car to try to calm them, or for a chat. When they were calmed down, we brought them back in. That way, we were the ones whose meal was interrupted and unpleasant and didn't make the rest of the diners suffer through our child's unfortunate public behavior. Between the screaming and undisciplined children, and servers who interrupt you every three to five minutes, dining out has become quite unpleasant for the most part.
Aug 4, 2011 7:38 AM Guest Kay  says in response to Sarah:

So totally agree!  Standards of acceptable behavior (by children AND adults) in public have gone down the tubes, unfortunately.  Recently was in a restaurant with my teenaged daughters and the 20-something adults at the adjacent table were using such obnoxious, loud and offensive language that I said something to the mgt.  Thankfully, we were finishing up as they were just starting.

It is too bad that parents allow their children to run around at restaurants - that can be corrected.  Also, if your baby/toddler is screaming, kindly take your child outside, as I did countless times when my girls were little.

Aug 4, 2011 12:54 PM Guest Pamela H.  says:
I think the intolerance for children is a result of many parents today that fail to discipline their children and think that the world revolves around their adorable child.  I have been on airplanes, restaurants, and grocery stores where children are running rampant and wrecking havoc while the parents are oblivious.  I love children (I work in Children's Ministry) but I do not enjoy being around brats. 
Aug 4, 2011 12:55 PM Guest Teana L.  says:

Reading through the comments, I noticed one point NOT mentioned.  Going out to eat is a PRIVILEGE. I have 6 children born throughout 3 decades. Our children regularly received comments on their good behavior. Of course, we rarely ate out. I am constantly amazed at the number of vehicles at restaurants every day of the week in our "struggling economy"!! Teach your children manners at the table at HOME first, then they will be a joy and blessing in public. No one is perfect and when our children were crying or too loud, we took them out of earshot to cause the least disturbance to others. Manners are doing what is KINDEST for others.

Aug 4, 2011 12:56 PM Guest Jeff S.  says:

Wow, I do remember those times when we took our kids out. McDonald's might have it down pretty well.....they have that play area for just the kids! Works for us but it isn't a nice dinner place.

Just the other night, I remember that a child let out a blood curtling scream and I even jumped --- maybe because he was at the next table! It definitely takes the enjoyment out of the meal.

I think my daughter did it well when raising her kids. She gave them one chance at not being respectful of other people in the restaurant, then she would pick them up, walk outside and have a one-on-one talk with them. After they quieted down, then they came back inside.

I know there are times when both my wife and I wish others would do the same.

And, you need to be aware of the kids needs too. When thekids are done with their meal at home what happens? They go play or do they sit quietly at the table until everyone is finished? Get the idea?

Aug 4, 2011 12:57 PM Guest msprinkl  says:

I think a big factor in all this falls on the parents of the screaming child.  I would be against this new trend IF parents would take the screaming child outside until the child calms down.  I am a father of two awesome kids that I love with all my heart.  We are fortunate that we did not have many public meltdowns.  We had taught them very early that tantrums simply didn't work with us.  We had to spank each of them maybe 5-6 times each in their whole life.  Then they knew that was always on the table.  Their bigger deterent was not liking the feeling of disconnect/disappointment from 2 parents they knew loved them with all their heart.  I observed a great scene at church one Sunday.  A child was having a tantrum.  His mom looked at him and said in a sweet voice, "Is that the best you can do?"  The child screemed louder to which the mom said, "Come on, you can do better than that."  The child looked up at her, saw he wasn't getting what he wanted and stood back up and acted fine."  The most brilliant parenting I had ever seen!  lol!

Aug 4, 2011 7:39 AM Guest Robin  says:

I would not go to a restaurant that bans children. Let's tear the family apart even more by banning their children. I will boycott all restaurants that would do this. I love spending time with my child and eating together is a great way of communication about problems and victories in their lives. If I see a child crying in a restaurant, my heart goes out to the parents, but it is NOT a reason to ban children from going to the restaurant, just like banning a contagious person from seeking help at a hospital. This just really upsets me!

I thank the Lord everyday for the little one that I am raising.

Aug 4, 2011 7:42 AM Guest Mike  says:
I am very pro family and enjoy kids tremendously.  My wife and I raised 2 daughters, and now have 4 grandkids.  We enjoy them all and also enjoy watching other parents interacting with thier kids and family.  However, there are times when you encounter the parent that seems not to have a clue about the feeling of those around them when thier children are being loud, unruley, and obnocious.  I do feel like if couples want to go out and have a nice time with thier spouse they aught to be able to do so without the frustration of unruley, loud children and parents that seem not to care how that may effect others.  Even the best night out can be negatively effected by that situation.
Aug 4, 2011 7:43 AM Guest Fay  says:
I have grown children and can empathize taking kids to restaurants, movies to a point, but I am now at the stage where when I go out, I want to enjoy my meal with friends and my movie with no distraction.  At the very least, if parents can’t keep their kids in line, restaurants should give you the choice of “kids or no kids” sections like they did for smoking.    Let the parents with children stay in one part of the restaurant, behind a wall where the children can’t be heard and let other patrons dine in peace.  As far as movies goes, same thing.  Have a screen or 2 for parents w/ children and screens for no children.  Yes, I took my son out to eat when he was small, but rarely and if he ever acted up, it was straight to the bathroom for a spanking, or into the car, meal taken to go.  I would have been mortified if my child caused a public disturbance.  Parents today (at least that I’ve witnessed)  don’t seem to care as long as they are getting their dinner out.
Aug 4, 2011 12:59 PM Guest Paul F. H., Jr.  says:
Childless restaurants are abssurd and poor economy. Children grow up and become paying adults. If an adult can't remember your establishment as a child, you won't have their business as an adult.
Aug 4, 2011 7:44 AM Guest Sarah  says:
Are you kidding me? When situations like this come up I always as myself why does someone want to have children if they do not want them to be a part of their lives? It is up to the parent to make their children behave when they are in public. Children should be welcome everywhere. It is amazing to me that these companies would ban children from coming to the their place of business. What is going to be next?
Aug 4, 2011 7:45 AM Guest Brian  says:

I think businesses have every right to set these types of rules.  If their customers approve, they won't lose any business.  Otherwise, the marketplace will tell them their policy is wrong in no uncertain terms.

 

That being said, my wife and I always took our kids everywhere with us but we did not allow them to misbehave and interrupt others.

 

When you look at our society, it seems the majority of parents are very lackadaisical and laissez-faire in regards to their childrens behavior.  They allow children to behave in any manner the child sees fit and the children ignore the parents begging for a change, which, to often, seems to be their only attempt at control.  The kids control the parents, not the other way around.

 

This is what our society teaches us.  Children are the center of the universe and must be allowed to develop freely without limits and surely without disciplinary action to train them to refrain from disruptive and anti-social behavior.

 

When I observe this type of behavior in Wal-mart, at a restaurant or at a movie, I can understand why the business would enact these rules.

Aug 4, 2011 7:45 AM Guest Martha  says:
I think there are "family-type" restaurants - where I would expect to hear some crying but then there are nicer restaurants where I would NOT expect to hear that. I ditto the commenters who don't want to go out on a rare date night and listen to other people's kids crying. I have two of my own. When my rowdy son (under the age of 5) got uppity in a restaurant, WE TOOK HIM OUTSIDE!!! THat was the only considerate thing to do. Parents don't do that today. I think this change in cultural attitude toward children is more a reflection of changing parenting styles. Parents today, I believe, are WAY too indulgent with their kids - and overall don't seem to think a bit about the people around them in public being bothered by their badly behaving children. We need more thoughtfulness and consideration in our culture. And discipline! Kids need to be more respectful and disciplined (obviously, that doesn't apply to infants....)
Aug 4, 2011 7:46 AM Guest Carissa  says in response to DeWayne:
I'm afraid some churches are already following this trend. There is a church in my community that boasts of being a modern, different church that reaches people who don't like church. They make their services so loud, and they band children from the service. This turned me off when I visited, because once I have a baby, I do not want to leave my 6 week old child in a germ-filled nursery, I want the baby with me. I'm sure many more churches are adopting this trend. How dare someone interrupt the pastor!
Aug 4, 2011 1:12 PM Guest Lorine B.  says:
Unfortunately, we do live in a culture that is anti-child.  Even Christians have rejected children, with the widespread use of birth control and sterilization.  As such, we shouldn't really be surprised at the current adult-only attitudes.  Change will begin when believers learn to embrace children as the blessing that they are.
Aug 4, 2011 7:47 AM Guest Kate  says in response to Roger:
Roger...very well said.
Aug 4, 2011 7:47 AM Guest Kathy  says:
I was immediately drawn to read this entire article.  My husband & I have been married 34 years and have 5 wonderful children (three now married, all with children of their own.) two, still at home.  We were blessed with a variety of different personalities (The Strong Willed Child sat on the bookshelf next to the Bible!).  We were always very conscious when our children became unruly in a restaurant.  We would take them out if they were loud or disruptive as to not have them interrupt other's quiet meal.  I agree with what Jim has written - part of the problem is the culture of intolerance toward children.  But also, I must say - parents do NOT discipline their children.  Their "tolerance" toward rude behavior from their kids saddens my heart.  All in the name of "they're just children!".  It seems everywhere I go I see children who are allowed to be so disrespectful to their parents.  Thus, the problem becomes people who go out to restaurants to enjoy an evening out (we have date nights weekly) can hardly (at times) hear the conversation between themselves because of unruly children.  I'm saddened by the way our culture views children, but also am as saddened by the way parents are not training up their children in the way they should go.  Perhaps the problem is a combination of these issues.
Aug 4, 2011 7:48 AM Guest Susan G  says:

One evening my husband and I were thrilled to have a sitter and actually go out for dinner, just the two of us.  We chose a booth because it seemed more private.  Imagine our surprise when a little head popped up from the booth next to us.  The child played peek-a-boo and kept waving.  This would have been cuter had we not been paying someone to watch our own children.  The parents thought it was amusing and did nothing towards the situation, even after the toddler started dropping napkins into our booth.  Would it be nice to have some restaurtants have kid-free sections/hours/set aside certain days?  Absolutely!

This also applies to movie theaters.

I love children, I'm especially fond of my own two .  And I believe the majority of the issues stem from the parents, not the kids.  We have been invited into people's homes for the evening and their own children are so ill-behaved we end up regretting accepting the invitation in the first place.

Aug 4, 2011 1:16 PM Guest Pat C.  says:

I agree that children are a blessing.  That said, anyone who leaves their house today has witnessed a growing trend of not correcting children when they misbehave in public.  Instead, others cringe as the wailing grows louder, sometimes due to a very tired or hungry child whose parent/parents refuse to see to the child's needs, which may be denying their own desires and taking their little one out of the business/theater/department store, etc.

 

Many parents today demand that their needs be satisfied at all times.  When this happens, not only do innocent bystanders have their lives disrupted, but the children are ignored and often taught that screaming is the only way to get their parents' attention.

 

One day I witnessed a young mother whose children were so well-behaved that I stepped over to her table and complemented her.  She beamed at my words.

 

I was brought up to behave in public.  If I did not, there was a penalty.  Sadly, many today do not understand that in a polite society one has to consider others as well as themselves.

Aug 4, 2011 1:17 PM Guest Kim G.  says:
I am a grandmother of two little girls under the age of two.  They indeed are alot of fun and full of energy and our family welcomes any opportunity to have the girls over but, when my husband aka Papa and I are ready to go out to eat I want to enjoy my meal in peace and take in that time we have sitting across from each other with much needed conversation.  More times than not in recent years dining out includes screaming children with little concern from their parents that they are being disruptive.  Like anything else there is a time and place for everything and I am in support of child free restaurants.  If I wanted to eat in chaos there are many child friendly restaurants designed for the fun and energy of kids.
Aug 4, 2011 7:52 AM Guest Dione  says:

In all honesty, when I had four small children, we went out very seldom, and when we did, it was WITHOUT the kids. I have joked for many years, that I would like the non-kid section please.... this was [suppose to be] my brake from listening to small voices cry and whine.

Aug 4, 2011 7:52 AM Guest Mark  says:
I don't think the problem is that our society is becoming less tolerent of children.  The problem is that we have some parents with no common sense.  Shortly after we arrived in Okinawa, my wife and I explored the island and wandered into a restaraunt with our one year old in tow.  It turned out that the place was a bit more upscale than we had anticipated.  On cue, as soon as our food arrived, our daughter went into a melt-down.  My wife immediately took her outside, while I paid our bill and left having barely touched our food.  Too often parents will simply let their child sit there and scream its head off.  They seem to think that since they are paying a lot for their food, they have the right to ruin everyone else's dinner. There are plenty of places that cater to, and love screaming children.  But I cannot imagine why anyone would intentionally take a small child to an upscale restaraunt that the child is not likely to appreciate, and where there is a risk of ruining the evenings of those who took pains to leave their children at home.
Aug 4, 2011 7:53 AM Guest Laura  says:
My opinion is that restaurant managers should feel free to ask the parents of a screaming child to please take the child outside, until he or she calms down.  No one likes to try to have a date night with screaming or crying in the background.  I do agree that we need to embrace those who choose to have a large family and encourage mothers, with positive comments. There are places where quiet is called for, such as weddings & meetings with a speaker.  At such times, most of us should realize that crying children should be in the nursing mom's room or the nursery.
Aug 4, 2011 1:29 PM Guest Margo L.  says in response to Agnes:
The two posts that I just read seem to express my feelings pretty well: there is a time and a place for entire families and there should be a time and a place for adults only for all the reasons they so succinctly stated. I raised 4 and am the grandmother of 4 (soon to be 5), and I love them all, but there are times when it needs to be just the grownups.
Aug 4, 2011 7:55 AM Guest Christina  says:

Is it another symptom of lack of charity, consideration and thinking of others?

I think it is the reaction of restaurant owners from complaints of patrons to spoiled, undisciplined children. Whenever we eat out, we get numerous complements on how well our 5 children behave, from the wait staff and other patrons.  When we eat out, the most we have to remind our children is to use their inside voice, they can sometimes get to talking loudly. If a baby of mine is upset and does not calm down, I take them out in consideration of the other patrons.

Aug 4, 2011 7:56 AM Guest Penny  says:
I think it is sad that there are so many parents out there not parenting, that businesses believe they must implement these policies. I have myself noticed an increase in the number of unruly children in public places and parents are not taking ANY action to correct the behavior. The children are sadly being ignored when they are crying out for discipline.
Aug 4, 2011 7:56 AM Guest Kim  says in response to Susan:
You said it all Susan in your first two sentences!!!
Aug 4, 2011 7:58 AM Guest Dan  says:
Simple, really.  The restaurant has that right, we certainly cannot and should not legislate it away.  We just wouldn't go to that restaurant with our kids.
Aug 4, 2011 8:05 AM Guest Laura  says:
This is becoming necessary when parents stopped parenting and children started parenting.  When children become disruptive and distuctive, parents need to take them out of a restaurant or store, that's what parenting is about.  Since parents refuse to acknowledge that their angels are misbehaving, store owners are now having to do their jobs.  Sorry parents, but if your kids are misbehaving, remove from the premises, otherwise it isn't an issue.  And small children under six don't belong in movie theaters!  Keep them home so they can move and talk all they want and not disturb others.  They do eventually grow up and you can enjoy eating out in and seeing movies together, but there is a time and place for everthing, and there's the rub for many in our society, to impatient to wait for the time to arrive.
Aug 4, 2011 1:36 PM Guest Terrell J.  says:

I am a father of 6 children and grandfather of 13 and I consider them everyone to be a real blessing from God. They have brought, and continue to bring, my family and me great joy.

As my children were growing up we taught them how to behave and to repsect the rights of others. They knew that if they misbehaved in church or in a public place there were conaequences to those actions and for that reason they behaved. The problem today is that so many parents have bought into all this hogwash about how discipline hurts a chld's self-esteem and as result have lost the abilility and desire to control their childre.

 

While I would not personally endorse this practice in my own business I believe this as a private business owner every person has the right to run his or her business as they see fit. If their sustomer's don;t approve they will soon let them know as they disappear from their place of business

Aug 4, 2011 1:40 PM Guest Pam  says:
When I was a child I was not allowed to be loud in public, when I raised my children I did not allow them to be loud in public. It is called manners and teaching them how to be a productive citizen. Now there are no such things. When I see parents letting their children scream, run around, throw things from shelves in stores and act like "oh well" I have stepped in and told the child that is not the way to act. And believe it or not the parents still just act like no big deal. It is a generation of new parents that were not taught it is ok to discipline a child, in public or home, and biblical. Or don't care, they act as if they are entitled to "be off of parent watch". Sorry once you have a child, you ARE never "off duty". I agree that if I have a rare time out, I do not appreciate others that bring their children and allow them to ruin it for everyone else. They may act like animals at home but they should not be allowed to act like that in public. And it is the parent that should face the consequences.
Aug 4, 2011 8:08 AM Guest Sandra  says:
We see a nation losing the most basic understanding of life. Life consists of people of all ages and all stages. Our disconnected culture has ruined our ability to enjoy one another and to be a part of one another's lives. We must realize how older people have been shut out, and now children are facing a segregated life from the everyday activities of living. Young parents are left to try to raise children without learning first how to interact with children through previous family generation connections. The segregation between the generations is a part of the ruin taking place in our nation. Unless we each take hold of this situation and deliberately make changes, we will lose what makes our lives worth living.
Aug 4, 2011 8:13 AM Guest Brian  says:
I agree with the restaurants and the clientele that want a more relaxing, quiet and romantic atmosphere. That is part of their appeal, and within their perogative to establish the ambiance.  There are plenty of restaurants that welcome loud, unruly children.  It is pushy and arrogant for people to force others to endure their children's misconduct.   If you seek a battle against injustice, you have many choices, and most of them are Biblical.  I don't think this is one of them.
Aug 4, 2011 8:13 AM Guest Mike  says:

Its a sad reality that such measures are being taken to limit the presence of children.  My simple response is, they have the right to not want kids in their establishment, and I have the right to NEVER eat, fly, or purchase any of their products and services. So long as there are "kid friendly" establishments, I will choose them over a place that is too "high & mighty" for children.  In short, let them burry themselves in such an audacious policy.  As long as there are children, such a policy cannot prevail and I will be sure to use my consumer rights to see that it does NOT prevail.   -Mike

Aug 4, 2011 8:14 AM Guest Joey  says:

I have four boys under the age of 12 and we go out to dinner, shopping, etc... all the time. We have at times had to leave a public place because of bad behavior.  When this happens the offending boy(s) are disciplined which hopefully leads to acceptable future behavior.

 

A business owner should make patrons aware (maybe by posting a sign) that anyone not following typical rules of courtesy will be asked to leave. Similar signs (i.e. no shirt, no shoes, no service) are posted in business w/out offending the majority. The business owner then has to have the courage to gracefully ask a poorly behaved person or parents of misbehaving children to leave. The embarrassment of being asked to leave hopefully will remedy future episodes. Either the parent/person won't come back or in the future they will behave in a civil manner. In short, it is bad business to exclude families w/little ones.

Aug 4, 2011 1:45 PM Guest Shiela S.  says:

To me "Children are a blessing from the Lord" when they are taught to obey. Disruptive, unruly, undisciplined children are NOT a blessing!  Many parents are too lazy to follow through with the discipline!  They are doing their children a huge disservice!  They don't realize that they are training the adults of tomorrow to be disciplined, UNDISCIPLINED, pruductive or UNPRODUCTIVE!

My husband and I rarely eat out at a restaurant, due to our funds, so when we are able to eat out at a restaurant I do not want the little bit of special time out ruined by someone's undisciplined child!

I am not talking about the McDonald's type eating places.  I know they are geared for children.    

Aug 4, 2011 8:14 AM Guest Pooja  says:
I feel that people are missing the boat so much when they ban children from restaurants and other public areas. Afterall should we forget that they are the future of this country and they are the only innocense left in this American society. No wonder they(our children)  can not tolerate us when we are old. When we as a society do not know how to tolerate them when they are young.
Aug 4, 2011 8:17 AM Guest David  says in response to Susan:

I don't see the trend toward "child-free" venues as a commentary on intolerance of children, but more an intolerance of parents who just don't seem willing or able to be responsible for their child's behavior in public.  I am a father of 3 kids and if we went out to a restaurant as a family and one was crying or misbehaving then that child was picked up and taken outside until they calmed down and then we came back in.  There were many times I ate cold meals or my wife met me outside with my food in a "to go" box because of this, and vice versa, but my kids learned that when we said "You need to stop that or we're leaving" then that meant we were leaving!

 

Airlines is tricky, the air pressure makes it hard on infants and you can't "step out" so you are limited.  We all understand that, just do your best to soothe the child and at least look like you care when they are making the flight miserable for everyone around you.  And parents, when it comes to movies, especially PG-13 movies?!?  Leave the toddlers at home with a SITTER!  If you can't afford a sitter, then you can't afford the movie!  Period!

 

If everyone would step up and take more responsibility for their children and, like someone else mentioned, teach them the proper way to act/behave in public, then this wouldn't be an issue.  To say our culture is becoming intolerant of children, I think, is missing the point.

Aug 4, 2011 8:20 AM Guest Donna  says:
I love kids and loved having my kids with us when we went out. As a parent it was my responsibility to teach my children how to be in public. However, I think what this points to more, are those parents who do not teach their children how to behave in public. As much as I love children, I hate being out and invaded by chldren who behave badly, interrupting conversations and the enjoyment of being out for everyone else in the restaurant or other public place. Of course I feel the same way about adults that don't know how to behave in public either. I guess now I'm waiting to be asked at restaurants about seating preferences, "Small children? No children? or First available?"
Aug 4, 2011 8:20 AM Guest Jane  says:
Intolerance toward children goes deeper than airplanes, and restaurants... We have also been aware that some nearby family get-togethers have been dubbed "adult only". The desire for no interruptions, the desire that special breakables would not be touched, etc. Talk about feeling unwanted! We are a large family with lots of children and spend a great deal of time training them so that they are reasonably pleasant in public. (We've had many positive comments.) I do believe that part of this issue is that many parents have poorly trained their children. Their kids are loud, disrespectful, and unruly. Who wants to be around that kind of behaviour? I don't enjoy being interrupted by a rude 10 year old any more than anyone else. But even with good training, there is also a general disdain, or unwillingness to embrace, love, and enjoy little children. The selfishness of our society is amazing. We were ALL children once. But there is some sort of assumed "right" that once you get through it (yourself) and raise your x amount of children... you no longer have to be confronted with the unique challenges of little ones, or be confronted with encouraging their parents in the walk of childrearing. Sad. When babies cry because they are hungry, or have an upset tummy, you would think that would evoke some kind of compassion. Instead it draws disdainful looks. We always tried to whisk our crying babies away so others would not be offended, but sometimes that just is not possible when there is no where to go. How touching that Jesus said of the little tots, "Wait... let them come!" That kind of warm graciousness from adults is VERY rare and very refreshing!
Aug 4, 2011 8:20 AM Guest Gregg  says:
I'm ok with this ban. It is posted. Parents are not running the families nowdays based on the book just received from Focus written by John Rosemond, it's the kids. Therefore, 30 yrs ago, kids would have been better behaved. Therefore,there will be more of this and marketed by companies asking for adults only!
Aug 4, 2011 12:29 PM Guest Patricia E.  says in response to Susan:
I am a 79 year old great/grandmother.  I was pleased when my greats visited me last week to see the disciplines administered by my grand children.  The children had lots of fun, made a lot of noise outside, but were requested to use their inside voices in the house.  Undisciplined children cause folks to not like children.  We allow our children today too much freedom in making decisions concerning their behavior. How can they be disciplined adults when they are allowed to be undisciplined children.  Knowing that when you can put your parents in a position where they cannot at the moment discipline, sometimes gives the child an edge over the adult. They are smart little ones.  Children should know that if discipline isn't possible at the moment, it will be when they get home.
Aug 4, 2011 8:23 AM Guest just8  says:

Great article. It seems like a lovely idea to ban children, but what is next: Individuals with oxygen tanks, seniors, the disabled etc. Just like drunken patrons are asked to leave, I think screaming children can be asked to be removed. Please don't judge all children for the behavior of a few. We always brought our kids out with us (all eight of them,) even to Country Clubs, where they behaved. They grew up going out, and knew what was expected of them. Even when we had a few, occasionally other patrons would ask to be moved when we walked in. As Christians life is not solely about us. How many Christian Churches expect children to be out of site during worship? Let’s welcome the children. Banning children is a bad idea.

Aug 4, 2011 8:24 AM Guest Jeanne  says:

Children are wonderful and a blessing from the Lord--I couldn't agree more. And they are unpredictable for certin. Equally unpredictable are parents! Children need to learn how to behave in public places, like restaurants, church, movies, live performances...and it doesn't happen without some coaching from the adults who bring them there. Letting children do whatever they want whenever they want causes a major distruption to others who actually would like to enjoy the event. If inconsiderate parents have created a situation where children are not welcome, that's unfortunate for the families with children who are respectful. But my guess is that the rest of the folks there will be thankful. (I raised four children and have 11 grandchildren. I wouldn't take the littlest ones to the nicest places because they are too young to behave "perfectly" in those situations. But the rest have been raised so they can be in a public place and not be a nuisance to others.)

Aug 4, 2011 8:26 AM Guest Robin  says:

I sympathize with parents struggling to keep youngsters under control in public places. Been there, done that. But my wife and I were careful to limit opportunities for our children to annoy other adults who, for example, may be spending good money for an enjoyable meal, or a movie, etc.. We did not try to reason with a wailing child, but removed them from the restaurant etc. until things were under control.

 

Many of today's parents are more permissive, or they just don't care. Honestly, I don't like listening to other peoples unrulely kids - at any age.

 

I think a restaurant associated with a golf center is not a place for wailing children. If specific incidents spawned the new rule, which is frequently the case, I can support the owners interest in preserving his business.

Aug 4, 2011 8:27 AM Guest Natasha  says in response to Courtney:
Parents do not have control of their children. When I see a child have a meltdown in public, the parent ignores the child or tries to console them. I see this every week when I shop in Walmart, children having temper tantrums all down the aisles. The parents just holler at them or ignore them, instead of taking them right out of the store and out to the car to discipline them. I wear an ipod so I can drown out the sounds of children screaming in the stores. My children have never had a public meltdown, they are 4 and 5 years old. They don't have meltdowns in restaraunts and stores because I don't let them have meltdowns at home!! Parents are giving other people a very bad impression of children. We went to the science museum a couple times and the kids were so horrible! We stopped going because my kids had an awful time, listening to other kids scream and throw stuff on the ground without picking it up. We got lunch there, and the young man at the counter looked around at all the other screaming kids who were throwing a fit bc they couldn't have donuts, and he said to me " I will never ever have kids" What a shame. If a store had kid free hours in my area, I would go, and I have kids. I am sick of looking at miserable children throwing temper tantrums. They look so unhappy, and the parents let them continue in their own self pity.
Aug 4, 2011 12:25 PM Guest Winnice W.  says:
I love children, also, but when mine misbehaved in a restaurant, we took them out side until they could behave.  However, the lack of discipline of children during almost the whole last generation has produced behavior that goes beyond the occasional temper tantrum or momentary loss of control.  Children now often seem to be the bosses of the parents and are allowed to do and say whatever they want wherever they want without any repercussions at all.  I look forward to shopping in a grocery store without little kids running around pushing their own little grocery cart(s).  Eating a meal without hearing totally undisciplined children is fine with me.
Aug 4, 2011 8:28 AM Guest Roxanne  says:
I believe that children are a blessing, and that our society is becoming anti-child.  I even heard someone on a Christian radio show speaking negatively about children out in public.  My heart ached when I heard the host speaking in such a way!  I will not patronize a restaurant or any other business that does not accept my children.  If my children are not welcome, they don't need my business.  We do many things as a family, and it would cost me more to get a babysitter than it would to get each of my kids a $3.99 kids' meal.  We enjoy doing family activities and developing close relationships with our children.  It doesn't mean that we never go out without them, but we like to include them in special things like birthday celebrations.  If it means eating at a different restaurant than our first choice, that's what we do.
Aug 4, 2011 8:28 AM Guest David  says:
My wife and I had a rare opportunity to spend a weekend away without our daughter.  We went to a resort restaurant that allowed children.  It was not the children that made it difficult for us to carry on a conversation, but grown-ups.  There was a table of 12 women that was near us.  The laughing and loud talk made it very difficult to converse and to enjoy our meal.  Maybe restaurants should have dB meters that monitor all sound and then send around sound police to add a sound tax to the final bill :0)  I understand the issue, but adults can be just as disruptive and then there are those so called "sports bars" where music also adds to the annoyance.  I find it unfortunate that restaurants have to resort to limits of this nature, but again people need to know the envirnoment they are entering.
Aug 4, 2011 8:29 AM Guest Diana  says:

I too believe that child are a blessing from the Lord, I think due to the lack of parenting by some parents and the fact that parents take their children every where cause they think that everyone loves them as much as they do is the problem. When I was young there where places that my parents just did not take me until I was old enough to know how to behave properly in that atomsphere.

Aug 4, 2011 8:31 AM Guest Guest  says in response to Susan:

Well said! I couldn't agree with you more.

Aug 4, 2011 8:31 AM Guest Jim  says:

It's a disturbing trend. What's next, "codger-free" days at the grocery store? This is real intolerance.

Aug 4, 2011 8:31 AM Guest Nichole  says:
I like having childless options when I'm out on a date with my husband of almost 15 years.  We don't like to have screaming kids around us when out on a date.  He used to hate it when we had just dropped off our kids at the sitters, only to have someone elses kids annoy us while we try to have a relaxed, stressfree time. Businesses should have the right to say no children if that is the crowd they are trying to reach. If Mcdonalds tried this I think that would be a problem, but 4 star restaurants shouldn't have to cater to toddlers as well.
Aug 4, 2011 8:32 AM Guest Jackie  says:
I have been following all the news about "Child-Free Zones" and it makes me think back to my childhood.  I have three precious children and I am a lover of kids but I think we have lost sight of family.  People might think the "Bans" on children are bad but when I was a child eating out was reserved for Birthdays only and then it was a trip to Ponderosa in a party dress...a family friendly restaurant.  Movies at the theater did not come along until maybe Jr. High and then that was a rare treat.  When did we decide eating out was an almost daily activity and that it is fine to pump $100 million into movies in a weekend!  We, as Christians are just as guilty of squandering our money on conveience and entertainment when we could SLOW DOWN, enjoy a home-cooked meal with our families and pull  out Monopoly instead of hitting the movies with $60 in hand!  Let's go back to the 70's....they really weren't all that bad!  (:
Aug 4, 2011 8:33 AM Guest Laurie  says:

My two girls are older now but when they were younger, my husband and I would hire a babysitter.  It was very frustrating when we would go out to eat and be seated by a crying/misbehaving child.  Once we asked to be moved.  We cherished our alone time when our girls were young so we wanted to have a nice peaceful dinner.  I can understand why some restaurants would offer childless dining.  I still do not like to eat with yelling kids.  Also movies, why do parents bring young kids to adult movies?  They don't want to pay a babysitter so the rest of us pay the price.

I love my two girls and my young great nephews but I also like to have peace and quite when I go out to eat or a movie.

Aug 4, 2011 12:42 PM Guest Barrett L.  says:
I thoroughly agree with Courtney, The sad commentary has to do with parental guidance and discipline.  Our two are now in their "half century" trek, but, we were able to eat out regularly, and other diners would often comment concerning our children's demeanor.  That of course, gave reinforcement to our efforts in having them use their best "manners" when we were eating in a public place.  My opinion is that we are seeing the accumulated effects of the teaching mindset that any correction is going to destroy the child's self esteem . . . I believe strongly, just the opposite is proving to be reality . . .
Aug 4, 2011 8:35 AM Guest Binderz  says in response to Courtney:

Nearly every law we have was put in place because somebody was stupid,  self-centered, or needed protection from themselves.  Cell phone laws because . . . seat belt laws because . . . motor cycle laws because . . .

When our kids got out of hand at a restarurant we took them outside until they calmed down and if they didn't my husband would eat and then relieve me so I could eat or we would have our waiter wrap it up "to go".

There is a price to pay for having children but the rewards far outweigh the disadvantages.

So, I agree with the others that a few exclusive restaurants should be able to have child-free times.

A relative of my daughter-in-law recently had a "child-free" wedding. If it would have been me I would not have attended.

I'll do the same with restaurants.  If a restaurant I like goes child-free I will not eat there.  When this practice starts hitting them in the dollar things will change.

Aug 4, 2011 12:48 PM Guest Marilyn L.  says:

I see the move toward child-free restaurants as partially about society's lack  of love for children, but more about the whiney or screaming ones. I am a mother of six, ages 18-35, and while I believe that children are a blessing from the Lord, I've become increasingly concerned over the years about some of the trends in parenting. Children need adults to be lovingly and confidently in charge, as it gives them a sense of security. However, many parents allow their children to be the center of their home, which places an unreasonable burden on their little shoulders. This also results in unruliness in public places, creating an unpleasant environment for others. It's best to explain exactly what you expect before going into a social situation, whether it's the grocery store, restaurant, or a friend's home, as well as what consequences will happen for disobedience.  At those times when the child tests the limits, swift and consistent action must be taken -- removing the him/her from the setting and administering the appropriate chastening, followed by a brief discussion of how they can do better next time, and an affirmation of your love. When, instead parents, nag, remind, threaten, and even try to bargain with the child, the behavior gets worse instead of better. This is a good opportunity to plug Dr. Dobson's book, "Dare to Discipline," which has helped countless moms and dads do their job with effectiveness and joy!


Aug 4, 2011 8:35 AM Guest Steve  says in response to Susan:

Well said Susan! I believe that you're right on target. I have two son's of my own so I can speak as a parent. It's very frustrating to see parents who basically ignore their children's misbehavior at when eating out. Movies are an even worse situation. My wife and I recently went out on a date night to see a movie (PG-13) we had been looking forward to. Counting costs for the sitter, tickets, and refreshments we had an invested almost $75 on the evening by the time we sat down in the theater. During the movie two young girls kept talking, running in & out of the theater, laughing, texting, etc. At least 3 people (myself included) complained to the staff to no avail.

When the movie was over I spoke with the manager and pointed out the two children standing in the lobby with their parents. It turned out two mothers had brought their children (5 in all) to the theatre and turned them loose without any supervision while the moms went to see their own R-rated movie.

It's unfortunate that the actions of inconsiderate & uninvolved "parents" such as these are bringing about the child free trends we're starting to see. However, I can't help but agree that it's a necessity.

Aug 4, 2011 8:37 AM Guest Maureen R  says:
Unfortunately I believe this trend is more related to so many children being undisciplined and not knowing how to behave when they are out in a social environment. There are exceptions of course; special needs children with range of circumstances to consider but overall as a single parent of two children, who takes them everywhere I go (restaurants, movies, hair dresser, church, library etc), I see too many parents not teaching their children what is acceptable and what is not. Running around others peoples tables while they are eating, or up and down a movie isle during a movie is just something that should be taught, it is not harmful to a child to learn that sitting still for an hour or being respectful of others space, it is also courtesy that they will have to exert as an adult.
Aug 4, 2011 12:50 PM Guest Debbie P.  says:
There are times when children are a distraction but during this same time it is also a teaching time.  Everyone can learn - child, parent, stranger.  If children are exempt from everything, how will they learn.  They are a blessing from GOD.  Let's treat them as such.
Aug 4, 2011 12:52 PM Guest Linda  says:
We were not blessed with children but we enjoy taking our many nieces and nephews out for dinner. HOWEVER, with that being said, we've noticed more and more that parents are not disciplining their children. They can scream, run around, basically do whatever and it's very annoying when trying to enjoy a movie or dinner. We are such a post modern culture that no one wants to set limits. The notion that kids are unpredictable is off base. We have four kids from the same parent that were not allowed to get away with murder in public. Their parents were wise, loving, and consistent. I've seen large families with the same dynamic. I've also seen a Mom of one unable to control her child as she's too busy trying to be a friend rather than an authority figure. So with all of that being said, I can understand why some places are doing this as people are just sick and tired of irresponsible parents ruining a night out. As for airlines, I can understand first class having a no child rule. For that kind of money, I would want peace and quiet.
Aug 4, 2011 8:44 AM Guest Michele  says:
The one perspective I haven't seen is this:  before my husband and I were blessed with our precious daughter, we endured nine years of unintentional childlessness.  Sometimes it was okay to be surrounded by kids; sometimes it wasn't.  There was nothing worse than trying to celebrate the blessing of our family of two by going out for a romantic evening and then having what we didn't have shoved in our face all evening.  I would have welcomed a restaurant that gave me a break from that constant pain for an hour or two.  Now that we have a rambunctious six-year-old, I agree with the general trend of the other comments; parents should parent their kids, but I think it's okay to have the occasional adults only option since there are so many parents who don't.
Aug 4, 2011 8:46 AM Guest Cheryl  says:

I think it is nice to get away without children sometimes.  I know that no matter what, children can be noisy but if children were better mannered it may not be an issue. It is lack of disipline that is frustrating.

Aug 4, 2011 8:46 AM Guest Karen  says:
It's too bad that we have come to posting no-children allowed signs and adult only shopping hours.  I'm single and don't have kids but have desperately wanted to be married and have children for years.  I enjoy seeing families spending time together.  Unfortunately what I have seen (in the church as well as the world) is that parents are very lax in disciplining their kids, hence, children running around amok and bumping into people.  To have a screaming child in a restaurant start running around waiters and waitresses, for example, carrying hot food, is an accident waiting to happen.  I was on the auto train a few years ago and a couple had an unruly 3yr old.  They were placed at my table (they also had the sleeper next to mine on the train) and the boy picked up the (real not plastic) forks and knives and started swinging them around.  The mom's only response was "don't do that honey, we have guests at the table."  the dad was totally uninvolved.  Neither made an attempt to take the silverware away from the child.  He could have seriously hurt himself and there is no doctor's office on the autotrain.  Parents need to be more involved in raising their kids and not tolerate bad behavior because it's the path of least resistance.  Then they can all enjoy a night out together without being banned from any place.
Aug 4, 2011 8:47 AM Guest Kim W  says:
I am a true believer in spending time with your family.  I don't go places that my children can not go, however I do enjoy spending time with just my husband.  I think the idea of going somewhere and having a nice date without children is fantastic.  Unfortunately, the only place that would be at is a night club or bar and since I don't go to any of those you don't have many choices. Hopefully people can embrace this as any opportunity for adults to have some adult time and not children being pushed aside.  You always have the choice to go somewhere your children are welcome.  After a long hard week of school, kids, and work you do need a break sometimes. 
Aug 4, 2011 1:08 PM Guest Robert  says:

As a father of three grown children, I have had more than my share of observing my kids and other people's kids in restaurants over the last 27 years, so I think I have enough years invested to opine on this topic.

 

First, I must confess that now that I'm in my mid-fifties, I have admittedly, grown less tolerant of parents who seem to be clueless of the fact that their children's crying out and screaming throughout their stay at the restaurant is offensive to neighboring diners.  We all know that the responsibility for the child's behavior ultimately falls on the parent.  Unfortunately, many parents are too concerned about eating their own food that they continue to tolerate the child's misbehavior throughout the meal as I have observed regularly.

 

When my wife and I were unable to control one of our children's behavior in a restaurant, one of us would get up and leave the dining area to deal with our child outside or in the entry area.  It either worked out or we would sit in the car until the rest of our family finished and got into the car.  We would explain to our children that dining out was a privilege and they would not be able to go out again if they would not behave.

 

Restaurants have every right to provide their customers with a ambiance that does not tolerate children crying out or misbehaving in my opinion.  Before banning kids, I might suggest that they restrict the hours that children are allowed to dine with family.  But I strongly believe that when children disturb other diners, it is the parent's responsibility to remove the child.  This also goes for the parents who seem to think nothing of their child crying out or talking/shouting out in church and fail to get up and escort the child out of the santuary immediately.

Aug 4, 2011 8:56 AM Guest Dee R  says:

While I also believe that children are a blessing from the Lord, this may be the unfortunate action needed to help parents to see that the children should not be in charge. As many have already expressed, a pleasant night out with your mate should be just that pleasant and sitting in a room with several unruly children does not fit that description.

Having said the above, I also agree with Jim. Compassion is necessary if we find ourselves in that situation.  I do not feel that a restaurant offering service to only adults is within their rights and if you have children then you will need to pick another restaurant.

Aug 4, 2011 8:56 AM Guest Robert859  says:
My wife and I raised four sons.  For some reason, screaming kids bother my wife more than they bother me.  My first thought is that I feel sorry for the parents and I know that parents occasionally need to bring their kids to a restaurant.  I look for opportunities to be helpful.  One time, my wife and I were in Applebees and there was a screaming baby at the table next to us.  The mother was obviously worried that we would be upset.  I told her that she had a very cute baby.  That calmed her and helped to defuse the situation.  Rather than letting a noisy kid annoy me, I like to look for a way to help the parents enjoy their time out.  I haven't forgotten what it is like to be a parent.
Aug 4, 2011 8:56 AM Guest Nan  says:
If owners of photography businesses can refuse to do business with a same-sex wedding, why can't a restaurant business refuse what they feel is "not right" in their establishment.  If one is offended by the establishments "rules of practice", it is fully your right to Go Somewhere Else.  I happen to enjoy children.  I will go to the restaurant of my choice.  I will go to the restaurant that gives me the environment that I enjoy and the food that I like.
Aug 4, 2011 8:57 AM Guest Amber  says:
I am the mother to 2 boys. A 4yr old and 3yr old. And while I completely understand that there are many circumstances where kids are at times uncontrolable, I also see a lot of parents who don't even try to control their children while at restaurants. While it is sad that restaurants are turning this way, I don't disagree with it either. I believe in consequences to actions and since there seems to be many more parents who choose to not control their children (taking their kids out when they are throwing tantrums or not behaving the right way) the consequence is banning their children from the restaurant. Children need to learn how to behave in all situations and maybe this will force those parents to take responsability and even learn themselves how to train their children appropriately. It's not easy or fun but it is critical.
Aug 4, 2011 1:26 PM Guest Julia  says:

Children are definitely a blessing from God, but the reality is that a large number of parents these days aren't parenting/disciplining their children.  You know... there's this new trend to treat children as little people, tip-toeing around them, give them their way, encourage them to voice their little opinions - - Basically, don't discipline because it might tarnish their esteems.  Yes, there is a distinct line between disciplining & abuse; (I am not talking about abuse here).  But the fact that so many parents are not doing their jobs to raise & train their children properly, means the rest of us tend to suffer in public places.  This isn't always the case, but I think we need to be careful to not take these new "rules" that companies are implementing too personally.  I have been at the movies where parents had their screaming 2 year old sitting behind me at a time that was obviously past his bedtime.  It basically runined the movie for me.  At the same time, I can see the fairness in first-class fares restricting certain ages.  People who fly first-class often pay SEVERAL hundred dollars more than coach (overseas flights are tremendously expensive).... If someone pays a hefty amount of money for a 5+ hour flight in first class, then they should fly comfortably at least.

 

I am trying to see the other side of the coin here.  I don't want all kinds of businesses to ban children by any means!  We can't always control our child who may be throwing a fit.  I know that can be humiliating, and I do think we should have compassion for parents struggling to get their child to settle down.  But I have to take into account how often I see wildly misbehaved children running through stores, or going to restaurants where parents simply ignore their screaming child while other patrons are trying to enjoy a night out.

Aug 4, 2011 8:57 AM Guest Dan  says:

I have three grown children, me and my wife though we enjoy time with them also need our time, Solitude. I have always struggled with the fact that parents have stopped parenting. It is not the occasional struggle parents have with children that is at issue, it is the societal norm that they no longer train a child in the way it should go. They (The parents) are given in to not dealing with their child, but instead care more for themselves. They spend the time texting, talking on their cell phone, doing just about anything but raise their children or pay them attention. Let's face it, a baby cries because it needs something, children act out because they need attention and discipline. I do feel there is a need for parents, adults, etc. to have a place they can go on date night or otherwise that is child-free though I feel that this should be an exception rather than the rule.

Aug 4, 2011 9:01 AM Guest KP  says:

I personally love children but have seen couples with young children who refuse to try to calm down a noisy or rambumctious child.  Even at our wedding, there was a small child that was allowed to crawl underneath the pews and became noisy when the parents told him to come sit down.  Because of the very personal event, they should have at least taken him outside or taken him home.  I know that children can be unpreditible but it is the parents that do not EVEN ATTEMPT to calm a child down that I believe is the root of this trend.

 

When our daughter was little, if she became unruly and we were eating out in public, I or my husband would take her outside for a short walk and that usually helped.

 

There are also times when couples need together time without their children and if they eat out, it is nice not to have to listen to someone else's child or children.

Aug 4, 2011 9:02 AM Guest Kelli  says:

I don't necessarily see these new policies/practices as an anti-children trend. I see it more as a counter to the poor parenting and child-centric society we've created by teaching children to esteem themselves instead of the Lord. As a society, we have taught them they are the gods of their own lives and, as such, are entitled to the deference and esteem of others. Scripture I rarely hear read at church, but that often comes to mind when I am at work at my local high school or just navigating a public place such as restaurant or theater is Philippians 2:3-4:

 

     "Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.

      Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others."

 

Until God's way supplants the self-esteem philosophy which has now damaged at least a couple generations, the older of which are now parents themselves who expect others to tolerate their children's poor, misguided behavior in public, adults may very well welcome more peaceful public environments.

 

By the way, in case any one wonders, I have a 25 year old and an 18 year old. When they were very young we stayed home a lot.

Aug 4, 2011 4:07 PM Guest ChristianTeacher  says:

It's not Satan, trying to destroy the family again.  It's likely misbehaving children and the parents who permit it. Human nature has evil enough on its own without any help from Satan. Even believers.

 

Anyone who has been kicked in the back of the seat for 6 hours by a child who was not restrained by their parent would gladly pay the extra price for a child-free first class ticket.  And it wasn't Satan kicking the seat, just a child with little training in respect of others.

Aug 4, 2011 9:03 AM Guest Elsie  says:
I disagree with banning children.   My children are very well behaved in restaurants and public places.   We receive many compliments on how well behaved our children are in restaurants, and other public places.  Some children behave  differently but I disagree that they should be banned from any business unless it is harmful to the child.  It is age discrimination and if we don't agree with discrimination because of color, race or creed why are we discriminating because of age?  What's next?   Didn't the Civil Rights Movement teach us anything?   Discrimation against children is not acceptable and I will be sure to boycott any establishment that has this type of "policy".
Aug 4, 2011 2:00 PM Guest ellen b  says:
I love children, and I love time away from them with my husband and adult friends.  Part of today's challenge with children in public is that so many are not disciplined - so many are not taught manners.  When a child acts up, removing them from the public is a an act of respect for those surrounding you, and, it teaches the child that their unruly behavior is not acceptable.  I so feel for parents when children are being disruptive - sometimes they don't feel well, are over tired, hungry - lots of valid reasons.  I so admire those parents who know and do what is most responsible in their situation. I really have a hard time with parents who try to bribe the child to silence, yell at them or worse.  Parenting is hard work.  It also means sacrificing some social pleasures for the needs of children. Chuck E Cheeses are meant for children - go there and have fun! There is a time and place when adults have the right to have peace and tranquility in their social environment.
Aug 4, 2011 1:59 PM Guest Andrew  says:

I don't have kids, so take this with a grain of salt.

 

It comes down to the fact that while there are a lot of great parents with well behaved kids who won't put up with temper tantrums, out of control behavior, and screaming- there are ten times as many who will. I'm sure that when little Johnny has been screaming at his parents for days/weeks/months/years they're desensitized to it and don't care, but some of us enjoy being able to eat without having our ears hurt by his high pitched shrieks.

 

The fact that society has swung 180* to where it's considered an impolite imposition for people to expect kids to be well behaved or removed from a venue where that kind of behavior is inappropriate (like a decent restaurant, movie theater, etc) is baffling to me. As a kid growing up, if I threw those kinds of shenanigans you can bet that one of my parents hauled me off to the bathroom or the car for a little chat, and maybe a swat if I wouldn't listen.

 

The sad truth is I have some extremely well behaved nephews, and some friends have kids that are very well behaved as well. The problem is that they're now limited in where they can go due to the rise in "child free" through no fault of their own.

 

The problem you run into is that it's hard to say "go ahead" to one person and then explain to the next that they can't bring their kids because they're horrible misbehaving hellians.

 

For those who want to just say "well you're not a parent and you don't understand that kids act out" believe me, I do. I was a kid before you know It's also pretty easy to tell the parent who doesn't put up with this stuff, but the kid is simply acting out, versus the parent who just doesn't care, and doesn't discipline their kid.

 

To those of you who have kids and won't put up with their screaming, God bless you, you're too few and far between.

Aug 4, 2011 9:08 AM Guest Beth  says:

I agree with Mary Jean.  I also think the issue is more with parents not parenting their children than the child.  There are so many parents these days that do not teach their children how to behave and that a temper fit will only lead them to the bathroom and possible straight home.  Instead they let their child disrupt the whole restaurant or airplane.  I love children and raised 3.  They are raising 5 and we all have had a moment of taking a child to the bathroom.  It's handled and we return to peace at the table.  Crying babies are not the case -- unruly children not being corrected but instead ignored (like that works!!!) by the parent is the issue.  Let's put the parents in a time out!

Aug 4, 2011 9:08 AM Guest Pam  says in response to Nick:
The best & only thing to do for that is to walk out of the restaurant with the screaming child.  That's what we would do, which was not always convenient, but sure makes it easier for the folks there trying to enjoy a peaceful meal.
Aug 4, 2011 9:08 AM Guest Richard  says:
Children are a blessing from the Lord, so parents need to take care of that blessing or the blessing will no longer exist. It is irresponsible to keep children out at a restaurant past a decent hour. Not to mention, marriage is important as well. I know I have read here at Focus on the Family about dating your spouse for improving a marriage. Therefore, I agree that it is fine that some restaurants do not allow children to give married couples a choice of places to go for an evening of adult company with their spouse.  Also, I want to mention that, sadly today, people take this "love your child" to the extreme and border on child-worship, judging those who are barren and childless and treating their children like golden idols to carry around them as bragging rights. This attitude is not what the verse mentioned in the article is about and could be a reason (not likely, but possible) why some restaurant owners don't want children in the restaurant - because they don't want children being treated with such callousness and heartlessness in their restaurant.
Aug 4, 2011 9:09 AM Guest Scott  says:
There are some times it would be better to admit the children and not the parents, but that's another question for another time. I understand you and your children have rights, but so do I. When I am spending a good sum of money to eat out with my wife, I not only want, but expect a peaceful and enjoyable atmosphere. If you're unable to afford a baby sitter or properly raise your children to behave in public, then maybe you should limit your restaurant choices to McDonalds or a similar establishment. Babies do have a valid excuse for being tempermental, but that does not give them or their parents the right to ruin the meals of many others who don't feel the same parental love and forgiveness for your bundle of joy. I truly enjoy the younger set, but YES there is a time and place for them, and NOT for them.......
Aug 4, 2011 9:10 AM Guest Val  says:
God loves the little children of the world! I think this is wrong. I can understand that children can be frustrating and are not always perfect, I know I have 4 children. God created us all for a reason! This is just unbelievable!
Aug 4, 2011 9:10 AM Guest Dave  says:

Whille I have been in plenty of situations where there were out of control children,  I cannot imagine finding one more reason to exclude them from their parents prescence.  I would probably choose to boycott this type of business, just like I have chosen not to attend "adult only" sunday school class parties.

Aug 4, 2011 9:11 AM Guest Sue  says:
I think children are a blessing from God.  However, parents do not have control of their kids anymore and the kids run the parents.  Parents are too afraid to discipline them.  We were given this advice when our kids were born.  No one will think your children are as cute as you do.  No child is cute enough to be a brat.  Restaurants have the right to impose what ever rule they so choose.  Parents get control!
Aug 4, 2011 9:12 AM Guest Karen  says:

I can relate to a desire for child free restaurants.   But, I think more important than preventing children in these public places is for parents to be responsible in "training them up."  My complaint to children in restaurants and public places, is not the noise of the child but the absolute disrespect of the parent in not controlling the child, not like a dog but expecting manners from them.  My parents used to take us out of the restaurant to discipline if we misbehaved, we did the same with our son.  We did this out of respect for the other patrons.  Yes it was inconvenient for us, but it was also how we would expect other parents to treat us.

 

Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world.  Our society has lost a lot of common sense.  We have become a society of rather than dealing with the issue immediately, we will "kick the can down the road" and let someone else deal with it.  Parents need to take the lead.  "Train up their children..." and know that loving disciplining is healthy, it won't hurt them, through it they will learn to respect others.  Respecting others, putting others needs as more important as yourself, I believe that is the answer to the issues we face today in this "me first" society we live in.

Aug 4, 2011 9:12 AM Guest Larry  says:
Thank God and I hope this continues. I have no children, don't want any, and don't want to be surrounded by ill-behaved children when I am out in a restaurant, theatre, or church. I might relent a bit if they were well-trained, but sadly, parents these days seem to be more concerned with themselves than the children. If you want to be concerned about yourself, you should do as I did, refuse to have any of them! I certainly hope this trend continues and children are kept at home until they are old enough to train to be polite and quiet. When we had "children should be seen and not heard" as the prevailing thought, there were no screaming brats in restaurants and theatres. Probably the reason we have so many today is that we are in the second generation where that thought was no longer prevalent! I think the same applies to church, if the children cannot behave, they should be in a nursery or at home so the rest of us can worship with quiet reverence as I think God intended. When the children are old enough to behave and to understand, then bring them to worship, but train them how to behave before bringing them out to eat, listen, or worship!
Aug 10, 2011 3:22 PM Guest Lynne  says:
When our children were small we ate out with them all the time.  We never left them home even for the nice restaurants. That was what we did for entertainment and relaxation.  We always explained what was expected before we went into the restaurant.  If our kids acted up (throwing things, loud voices, climbing out of their chair, ect.) they went straight to the car until they "felt better".  We would stand outside the car to ensure they were safe, but ignore them till they were "all better".  We only had to do that twice with each child.  We also took a bag of distractions that they could play with like small books and little toys while we waited for our food.  This bag was only for restaurants so the toys seemed "new" each time.  Sometimes treats would also be in the bag...PS: Dont take out a child who is teething!! This plan will not work.
Aug 4, 2011 9:15 AM Guest Christine  says:

I'm from a family of 8 and I can remember going out to eat as a child and sitting still and obeying. I now have 2 boys of my own and try to instill the same obedience in them. its not easy, but I think most of the time it's not the child's fault but the parents who don't know how to control the children when going out in public. I know there are many reasons for outbursts and it happens. If more parents would find what discipline works for their children and would stick to it, maybe more children would not be cast out.

Aug 4, 2011 9:15 AM Guest Rachel  says:

While I hate to see more child banning, it's a reaction to our culture of undisciplined children. Good, thinking parents can't seem to control their kids. Why? There's not threat to them. We can't spank them -- so society says. So we have to have a wrangle of wills.

 

I see kids going nuts on planes, screaming and kicking, and the parents are like mush to the will of a 2 year old.

 

Focus on the Family, start teaching parents how to discipline their children in love so they can take them anywhere.

Aug 4, 2011 9:20 AM Guest Chris  says:

I think it is a sign of our culture's selfishness, only "my" needs are to be met, not anyone else's.   To not allow a family in the restaurant because their baby may be loud is just selfish. Our culture is it "all about me".  But if you have children it can't be all about you. 

 

I do have to add that the "child-free" shopping hours at Whole Foods is during the day and it isn't for the other patrons but a nursery of sorts so the Moms can go shopping without their baby one day.  Any Mom who goes shopping with toddlers/babies understands how nice it is once in a while to go grocery shopping alone.  So I don't see this as child unfriendly, just giving Mom a break for a short time.

Aug 4, 2011 9:22 AM Guest Jan  says:

Having children does not necessarily mean they will be a disruption. I have eaten in restaurants with my children who behave amazingly well.  It is in large part the parents who determine the behavior, and it doesn't stop at toddlers.  We as a family have been in restaurants where sadly the teenage child was throwing a most disturbing fit, probably more discomforting then a crying child.

 

I would choose to not patronize a business that excludes children, and at the same time people need to recognize to train up a child in the way he should go.  When you go out to eat don't go right before naptime when jr.'s hungry and fussy, don't go if baby hasn't had their nap.  Take a toy that your little one hasn't seen with you to the restaurant so they will be entertained.  Create a small busy bag for such occasions and everyone including mom and dad will enjoy their outing more!

Aug 4, 2011 9:23 AM Guest Lynn  says:

Most of my children are grown now but as a mom to 7, I fully understand many frustrations about children in public. But our society does not value children and so we have these absolutley ridiculous signs "No Children Allowed!" What will be next? No mentally or physically handicapped, no elderly, no turrets allowed? Where does it end? It doesnt, it opens a pandoras box. Quite frankley I would rather hear a child acting up than listen to the foul mouths of a lot of adults who cant keep their own mouth quiet and yet here we are talking about little kids. As many times as I have had to listen to some child crying in a restaurant, I have been forced to listen to some foul mouth who's 2nd language seems to be cussing, just as many times.

Aug 4, 2011 9:26 AM Guest Andrea  says in response to Agnes:
Agree, Nick, 100%.  It's not a "hate" attitude towards children.  I am spending a good deal of money to relax and enjoy a nice meal and atmosphere with someone.  I can be surrounded by wonderfully active children anywhere; let the nice restaurant continue to provide adult quiet time.  Also another note, too many marriages break up because the whole family focus revolves around the children and parents change their focus from each other to the children; losing their marriage relationship over time.  FOTF has often corrected couples that do this and encouraged them to find activities to maintain, grow, and enjoy the relationship.  I say, let's have more restaurants do this so adults can indeed have their adult/couple time!
Aug 4, 2011 9:33 AM Guest michelle  says:
Last week a woman brought her children to my home. The children behaved terribly, pitching a fit, screaming at their mother, slugging her in the gut. She looked at me and asked when my children outgrew this kind of behavior. I replied that they were never allowed to behave that way in the first place, so they never "outgrew" it. We raised four children who were wonderful spirited kids. They are all productive adults. I see so many many children behave badly, its clear that parents are getting bad advice regarding raising disciplined, polite, well behaved people.  I think that is the crux of this trend to offer "Childless hours" at businesses. Parents, pick up a copy of Dare to Discipline, and Parenting isnt for Cowards. Read them and apply!! 
Aug 4, 2011 9:33 AM Guest Mary  says:
I can certainly deal with the occasional loud child when their parent is trying to calm them down but I really dislike it when the parent yells or is rude to the child or worse when the parent ignores the behaviour.  Childish behaviour in children I can deal with but childish adults I would ban from public places not just restaurants.
Aug 4, 2011 9:34 AM Guest Louise  says:
I have been in restaurants where children have been very obnoxious; I have been in restaurants where chldren are well-behaved; I have been lots of places where I have seen both.  But, I've been there with children that were misbehaving; and have been embarrassed by my own children's behavior.  But, with all this talk of 'tolerance' in our society, we need to be tolerant of children too!  I feel they are a blessing from the Lord;  It would be a very, very sad world without them.  Don't leave them out.  Learn to be tolerant of all ages.  I'd much rather be eating in a restaurant with a misbehaving child, than with some adults who curse, argue, talk inappropriately; talk on their cell phones and act rudely!  Make THEM stay out!  Silly to even have this conversation!
Aug 4, 2011 9:36 AM Guest Steve  says:
I don't see any problem with an extablishment's decision to have "child free" hours or to make their extablishment completely "child free".  To me, it's not so much an issue of being anit-children as it is being pro-a-nice-dinner-with-my-wife-without-our-children!  There are times that my wife and I choose to go out on a date and we leave the kids at grandpa and grandmas house while we go out alone... does that make me anti-children?  Anyone that knows me knows that I love my kids and am doing my best to raise them to love God with all their heart, soul, and mind.  Designating establishments as "child free" is simply a service to those adults (parents included!) who wish to enjoy a relaxing evening without children.
Aug 4, 2011 9:37 AM Guest Fred  says:

Yes, Children are a blessing, but they also need to act accordingly. When my twins were under three, we rarely went anywhere with them. When we did, if one of them acted out one of us would take the child outside for a short time. We lived in Wisconsin. It is difficult to keep four small children quiet in a restaurant  especially while waiting for food. I felt at that time tha tmy children should not impose on others, and when my husband and I go out it is very disturbing to be bombarded with the continuous screaming of small children. I love children, but many of todays children often misbehave and no one corrects them.

Aug 4, 2011 1:49 PM Guest John V  says:

You article highlights the exact problem: "But children are unpredictable and you can’t guarantee compliance or smooth sailing." Because of that little kids should not be on airplanes. Their high pitched screams & crying because of air pressure or whatever is so awful to have to hear because there is no escape for those who want quiet. As a frequent flyer, it has become a major problem and source of much irritation. A person can escape and move to another part of a restaurant, but not on a plane.

Aug 4, 2011 1:49 PM Guest Lea T  says:
I am 100 per cent FOR banning children from restaurants, movie theatres, airplanes...any public place where they cause a disturbance.  Like many comments, I get very annoyed at the parents for not disciplining their children.  I have worked hard over the years for the money that I have earned (God gets all the glory for that)...I resent spending my hard earned dollars at a restaurant, movie theatre, bus trip, air plane where I am TRAPPED with a tantruming, demanding child...where there is no means of escape.  I often go to Barnes & Noble to read in the cafe' and I have barely tolerated enormous disruptions.  Sometimes I can hear the child at the other end of the store!  Most often at the cafe the child demands, "I WANT THIS, GIMME THAT I DON"T WANT A BAGEL!!!!  OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN while the mother is on her cell phone, talking to someone, or just plain ignoring the child.  Yes LETS BAN CHILDREN.  I feel bad saying this but I have had many expensive dinners ruined.  No place is safe any more.  Someone should start child discipline classes.  Parents need to be taught.  PS: Child free shopping hours in Missouri?  Good for them!   Lea
Aug 4, 2011 1:49 PM Guest Pastor Bob M  says:

This is such a delicate issue. When my kids were young we were very careful taking them out and sought to go to "family oriented" establishments. We also tried very hard to teach them courtesy, manners, self-discipline and respect for others --- especially in public. This was at times a challenge. As such I can "feel" for those families attempting to enjoy a time together in public.

 

On the flip side, I have noticed a trend where many families no longer attempt to instill those same "archaic" values, and forget that others may not be as blessed about their children climbing over seats, running down the isles, throwing temper tantrums and such. Sadly, over the years I have also seen this in our own church as parents refuse to take charge of their children in service when the Word of God for teh salvation of souls is being preached,  and at times we've been forced to stop teh service for an usher to assist the parents. Many parents also all but "abandon" their children before and after church so that the parents can fellowship while their children "run wild" unsupervised. Others give little, loving concern to those servants watching the parents' children, who might also like to fellowship or leave after ther service. Parents then wonder why there are so few volunteers to babysit their small children so they don't have to.

 

As I said, a delicate balance. Bottom line: if I go to a family oriented establishment I go expecting children to be there. If however, I have saved up to take my wife out to a more expensive restaurant, I'm not blessed by a table where the parents have brought their children, refuse to discipline them and then my wife and I can't even carry on a conversation --- all while paying a hefty bill for a floor show we really didn't want included with our meal. My best advice, simply ask to be moved to a new table.

 

As with most issues, there are two sides and wisdom is required.

Aug 4, 2011 9:51 AM Guest sheila  says:
To say this is from Satan is a bit much, it looks like it's oversensitivity - which is rampant in our culture.  I have two children and appreciate children, but there is nothing worse than listening to a child scream at a restaurant and intolerable at a performance or movie theater.  It has nothing to do with being intolerant of children.  The example you gave of the guy who said he hadn't heard such beautiful sounds in years at a performance is funny but not realistic.  What's the point in going to a show if you can't hear it?  Is anyone bothered by an incessantly talking couple at a movie theater (which happens frequently).?  It's the same with a baby or child screaming - you can't even pay attention.  The child free store hours is a bit much - it used to be common courtesy to take your child out of the store if he/she was having a tantrum (and good for them too because they learned something from it)- I guess not anymore according to this article- just smile and say "what a darling boy!".  As far as airlines, it's difficult to ban children.  I can see banning in them in first class however.  It might even behoove the airlines to make an area for children and separate that area from the rest somehow.  I have had my children scream and there was nothing I could do to stop it so I certainly understand that.  But you can't expect someone else to sit there and listen to a high decibel scream for a half hour, it's unreasonable.
Aug 4, 2011 9:51 AM Guest Diana  says:

It seems to me the majority of parents today are lacking in teaching and dicipline of children and spend their time making idle threats of consequenses for bad behavior with no follow up.  TV programs portray parents, escpecially Father's as idiots or fumbly fools.  America has produced a generation of kids that need instant satisfaction, now gradification, and no respect for authority figures.  What is even more heartbreaking, their own parents do not want to be around them, why then is it so shocking that other people do not want to be around them.  The term "Kids will be Kids' has a whole new meaning today with a generation of children that have no morals and no conscience.  Be it parents that want to be 'tolerant' rather than responsible or parents that are absent or abusive,  this new generation of children are frightening.  I beleive the 'childfree' trend will spread like weeds and that is also frightening.  From Psalms, skip on over to Revelation!  I have 2 grown daughters, 5 grandchildren and a 3 month old great-grandson.  I pray for them continually.

Aug 4, 2011 9:53 AM Guest Ohsure  says in response to Tara:

Consider this - with all the people out there that will report you to the authorities if you DARE to try to discipline your child, some parents figure, why bother?

Aug 4, 2011 9:54 AM Guest Jennifer  says:
Should a state court clerk be prohibited from saying "I don't feel comfortable issuing a marriage certificate to a gay couple?" but allowed to say "I don't feel comfortable allowing your 4 year old in my office."?  Should a B&B be prohibited from refusing to host a gay wedding reception but allowed to refuse families with young children to stay there?  Should a restaurant be forced to host a LBGT/Rainbow Pride day party against their personal and religious beliefs, but allowed to ban families with children?

In essence, it comes down to whether it's okay to discriminate or not.  I think we live in a country where privately-owned businesses SHOULD have the right to decide who they do and do not want to serve.  And the clientel that chooses to frequent those businesses, for better or worse, SHOULD demonstrate the wisdom (or lack thereof) or making those decisions.  Of course, our state and federal laws already restrict our rights to make those decisions on a personal or religious basis.  I think it's only a matter of time before "age" is added to the laundry list of things private businesses no longer get to decide whether they want to discriminate against.

Personally, I'd welcome a change that allowed businesses to openly discriminate.  I'd much rather funnel my dollars into businesses that value children and families (though I also support the right of the business staff to kindly but firmly say "I'm sorry, but you will need to leave; please do not return until you've taught your child some manners or are willing to keep him under control.").  I'd like to know, up front, whether a business is hosting that Rainbow Pride party because they want to, or because they have to, so I can decide to take my money elsewhere.

One other note: Jim, the Whole Foods "Child-Free" shopping hours are NOT an effort to ban children from the store.  They're actually a program offering free in-store child care, so you can shop without your children if you choose to.  I see it as a child-friendly policy, as well as a policy that understands the stress of trying to shop with kids (so a very mother-friendly policy).  I've seen a couple places now where this has been reported incorrectly.  If anyone bothered to read the actual article (instead of taking a news service's word for it), it would be clear immediately.  I urge you to research your accusations thoroughly before including them in a blog post on someone else's word.  Including this example lessens the impact of your point.  Just my $.02.
Aug 4, 2011 9:54 AM Guest Emelwilsmum  says in response to Pastor Jan:
Thank you for your comment Pastor Jan. The truth of what you say concerning mothers (and fathers too) being overwhelmed in our American society is right on the mark. I'm a 44 year old mother of 3, ages 9, 7, 3. I have only myself to rely on for the care of my children since my husband is away most of every week for work. I have no family members or friends that are available to help me or even "do outings" with me. It's harder than ever before to manage in our modern society and the lack of cohesive, unanimous opinion about how children should behave keeps the community at large unable to step in and "help" out mothers in public situations. No one knows what the reaction will be from one mother to the next so no help is availed.  ...and yes, that is the destruction of the American family.
Aug 4, 2011 9:55 AM Guest doug  says in response to Michelle:
Yes, they are a private company just like many others who have to obey the law.  that's all it means.  It's just common courtesy not to sit there and scream in your neighbor's ear so why would you allow your child to do that?  Children get fussy sometimes and there's nothing that's going to comfort them.  That is the time to take them out of a place of business after you've tried.
Aug 4, 2011 3:34 PM Guest Nelson B. G.  says:

Dear Mr. Daly,

 

While I certainly understand your societal concerns about this appearing trend to provide a “child free” times by some service oriented businesses, I would say that the arguments you make in your article tend to be rather one-sided; however, as the head of Focus on the Family, your job is to sound the alarm and get our attention...  After having read the opinioins written by many of your readers, I was encouraged by what was blogged by other readers who posted their more “fair and balanced” views on your blog concerning this very important subject.

 

My wife and I are one of those childless couples you mentioned in your article; however, the choice of not having children of our own was not a choice we made, but it was a choice that was made for us by the Cancer I had at age 13 and the Chemo and Radiation treatments that saved my life, but left me sterile.  My wife and I have been married for 28+ years, and in fact do eat out a lot since cooking for two people who work long hours doesn’t make much sense.  Needless to say that during these 28 years we have seen and observed A LOT OF CHANGE in how parents handle unruly children in restaurants and other public places.

 

Over the years, my wife and I have had numerous discussions over these incidents as we eat our meals and observe how these various sets of parents handle these uncomfortable and often stressful situations—by the way it is not our comfort and stress that I am referring to…  But in some cases, we are amazed at the extremely laid back approach some parents take in not addressing their unruly child or children at all!

 

Mr. Daly, the real problem here leading to these “child free” times in some business establishments are not the childrren, but the parents!  Over the years, my wife and I have been amazed at the parents who refuse to act like parents should, and thus the child takes control of the unruly situation while the frantic parents try to “negotiate” with the little child.  My wife and I don’t recall ever having any “negotiation sessions” with our parents when they told us what we were to do or how we were to behave because we thoroughly understood that there would be consequences that would follow our disobedience.

 

My wife and I were children in the 1960’s.  My family was from Cuba as we immigrated to the US in 1967, and my wife’s family was your typical American family who lived in rural outskirts of Washington, DC—not that is rural any more…  Eating out for both of our families was the exception and not the “norm.”  As my wife and I have discussed the parental lectures and prep time we received before we even left the house about what our parents’ expectations were concerning how we were expected to behave, and the consequences of not doing so, we were amazed how similar those discussions were even though our cultural backrounds were so different.

 

So when we were going out to eat the expectations were clear, and if we misbehaved, our fathers would immidiately remove us from the restaurant and take us to the car for a “counseling session” where we were given the choice of behaving correctly and rejoining the family or forgoing our meal and staying in the car with Dad.  Well, as you can imagine, we had great incentive to take the first option!

 

The problem with unruly children is not really the fault of the children, but the parents who refuse to be parents because some of them are just so laid back in their parenting approach that they feel that the rest of us enjoy watching the child’s or children’s tantrum while other customers in the restaurant like us cannot even hear our own conversation.

 

We live in a very self-centered world.  If it is OK for me, then it should be OK for others.  My wife and I recall that our parents acted switfly to remove their unruly children from the scene as they were considerate of the other families trying to enjoy a night out.  Today that concern doesn’t seem to phase many parents and thus trends like the ones you highlight in your article are emerging.

 

Frankly, the trend you highlight in your article disturbs me very much, but I can understand why business owners are trying to provide a nice and relaxing time for their customers since some of today’s parents appear totally inept at controlling their children when they behave in appropriately.  Children are God’s remarkable creations and are incredible blessings that God blesses our lives with; however, He did tell us to, “Train up a child in the way he should go, Even when he is old he will not depart from it Proverbs 22:6)."

Aug 10, 2011 11:26 AM Guest Susan E. W.  says:

I have always wanted children, but we were unable to have any.  Children are a joy

to my heart.  I think we are living in the days Jesus talked about.

Aug 4, 2011 2:14 PM Guest Kathleen R  says:

Unfortunately, todays children are "free" to express their wants; and, when they are unhappy, everyone sees and hears about it.  From my observation, parents just expect others to tolerate their behavior.

It could also stem from fear of parents to correct their children under the watchful eye of the public.

Aug 4, 2011 10:00 AM Guest Vikki  says:

At this stage in the game, I am not sure I can honestly judge what the trend will be. Hearing you concern is a bit sobering, not knowing the direction this will go. We are enthusiastic lovers of children, veteran homeschoolers, have a tremendously close relationship with our now young adult children, however.............

 

I think a tremendous issue here is cultural trends, especially in the area of parenting. The lack of boundaries and training in good behaviour is abhorent. I remember well what type of behaviour was acceptable to my parents when we were privileged to go out to dinner or any other public social event, and I have pasted the half century mark. As I reflect, we were not abused or somehow injured at being required to behave well. Honestly, I believe it made us more grateful people.

 

Culturally, the focus is on ME and my pleasure without regard for the impact it will have on others and this goes well beyond the issue of taking our children out with us. We, too, have had our children react unappropriately in public. It isn't brain surgery to know that it would be best for the other dear ones trying to enjoy their leisure that we might take our child out of the restaurant? Fundamentally, the child may learn a lesson as well. Of course, at very early ages the little one may not understand. Then it is the parents responsibility to be others minded and not put the child or the other patrons in that tough place. "Think of others as better than oneself?" With that said, one can understand why those who don't know Christ and who have a desire to please patrons would consider such bans.

 

Let's be the Body and remedy this by seeking to LOVE our blessings without reserve, train them up well, and use discernment where the experience of others is concerned. Maybe this might come under life-style evangelism? Who knows what a shock it would be to others if we did. They might even ask you about your techniques and their Foundation hoping to employ them personally. Hmmm, let's get people thinking about what we have that they want.

Aug 4, 2011 10:02 AM Guest Sarah  says:
I think it is a horrible idea. I attended a Right to Life banquet a few months ago and the speaker challenged us "pro-lifers" to examine the way we react when little people show up in unusual places like restaurants, church services, etc. Do we really value their life like we say we do, or do we consider them an inconvenience? "Let the little children come to me, and do not forbid them, for of such is the kingdom of heaven."
Aug 4, 2011 10:04 AM Guest Aly  says:
A recent article in the Wall Street Journal conveys how some restaurants are finding opportunity in families with young children - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903366504576486042735359206.html?mod=dist_smartbrief - not every restaurant is banning children and the market will respond to whether or not the child banning preferences are met with success. I like a quiet evening out without crying. When our children were young we loved to get out of the house without our kids to enjoy an adult meal together. Having choices is a good thing.
Aug 4, 2011 10:07 AM Guest Sandy  says:
I support the business decision to ban children under a certain age, especially in nicer restaurants. When I go to a sophistocated eatery and pay for artfully prepared, delicious food, I hate to have my meal spoiled by noisy, unruly children who have been brought to a restaurant that doesn't even have a children's menu. The problem is that most kids today are not well-behaved and do not have good manners. Their parents let them do whatever they want. They are not disciplined at home and so they cannot be disciplined in public. Whatever happened to babysitters? I remember when people got a sitter so they could go out to eat or to a movie. Parents, please leave your kids at home until they are old enough to be quiet and still and not ruin the experience for everyone else.
Aug 4, 2011 10:07 AM Guest Ranae  says:

First, society forbids a parent to "train up a child". Here in California, children of school age are taught that if they are discilined (spanked) by their parents, they should alert an authority, who will punish the parent. A parent would never spank a child in public and children soon learn who is in control- and it's not Mommy or Daddy. Somehow the threat of "time out" when we get home does nothing to deter the behavior.

Second, children are wild, out of control, an irreverant. As a former leader in childrens ministery, I find I no longer can tolerate the lack of respect to our Lord or fellow church members. I have found children fishing in the baptismal tank, playing keep away with a beach ball in the main sanctuary, and purposely destroying church property. They have become bold, defiant, and rude.

Now, if this is being tolerated within the church, consider what life is like outside of the church. Why would anyone want to be around undisciplined children? Parents themselves need to escape from the chaos and do so through many electronic gadgets that occupy their childrens time while at home, in the car, ect.

I suggest, that in having "childrens church" and many other things catered only to children, that we are failing our children. When exactly should they learn reverence in the house of God? Where do they learn respect for others? How do they learn to sit quietly and listen?

The current trend is only in response to a much bigger problem.

Aug 4, 2011 10:13 AM Guest Vickie  says:

No one loves babies and children more than me. I do agree though with many of the comments already posted, because I think we are seeing more and more of uncontrolled children in restaurants and public places.  We all know that even a very well behaved child can have a bad moment and throw a tantrum, however,  I believe the problem we are seeing today lies more at the feet of parents who are afraid to discipline and are so worried about "crushing their little spirits" that they have allowed their young children to run around in a restaurant, scream for minutes on end, play at the table, etc., etc., creating an atmosphere of utter chaos and everyone loses their appetite!  I raised two very active sons, and children can be taught to sit at the dinner table and eat with manners! 

Aug 4, 2011 10:13 AM Guest Carolyn  says:

This is a topic that is close to my heart because I have 4 children and have experience with the phases of children and parenting. And this saddens me, it causes me to pray for our culture. I have witnessed a trend that devalues the "stay at home" mom outwardly and beneath the surface; that devalues children as unruly, annoying, costly, nuisances. Their are instances stuck in my memory of being out and about and from being at home with a solicitor at my door. When my children were toddlers it was cause for consideration when taking them out shopping or to a meal. I have been extremely blessed to have children that enjoyed mealtimes out and they understood if mom and dad, or others in the restaurant did not enjoy their meals due to unruly behavior we would not be going out again any time soon. We still had fun, and when we could afford it, we went out together. In fact, I think we had more fun together than staying at home. I can't imagine being a mom with children in tow going to a grocery store and not being able to shop because my children are . . .what . . . a hazard to public health? That would not only devalue my children but I would feel devalued as well. It shows a lack of respect for family. It is right up there with schools trying to sue the parent of heavy weight children for neglect.

I pray that this does not happen.

Lord, help this people to respect what you have created, marraige, family, and the blessings of children.

Aug 4, 2011 1:57 PM Guest Tom M.  says:
I can honestly say that I am not suprised by this trend, mainly because as a pastor I have see the decay of the family unit, including discipline for a child's inappropriate behavior.  Growing up I never had this issue because I knew how dad would react if I misbehaved in public (logical consequences).  That being said, I respect a business' right to make that decision to exclude children considering the behavior I observe in public; however, I also applaud and frequent places that welcome and encourage ENTIRE families to come in.  We have the choice as consumers.
Aug 4, 2011 1:57 PM Guest Teresa P.  says:
It's the parents who are the problem.  Not the children.  They think they can take the kids wherever they go regardless of what kind of place it is or what kind of restaurant it is.   I'm happy to see businesses take a stand on behalf of people who don't want their night out ruined by kids who cry, run around, and throw toys and food.
Aug 4, 2011 10:19 AM Guest Betsy  says:

The culture, (marked by more individuals) seems more and more intolerant of children.  Case in point - I was traveling back home on an airplane with my 5 year old daughter a few years ago.  Their was a woman seated by the window, next to my daughter (who was in the middle seat),  who was so incredibly rude to her that I was speechless.  My daughter was NOT misbehaving in any way.  She is a sweet girl who was sitting quietly, and yet the woman would not speak to her; moved as far away from her as possible and even jerked her arm away when it was accidentally brushed.  If this woman was any indicator of the less tolerant public, I am deeply saddened!  Let's extend extra grace to parents and children wherever we are!  It's what Jesus would do.

Aug 4, 2011 10:21 AM Guest Tish  says:

I can understand both sides of the arugment.  I don't have kids myself.  And I don't usually have a problem most of the time with kids.  But I do like the idea of kid free movies, especially the ones where you can expect a ton of kids.  Chatting kids in movies is really anoying IMO.  We always go to the latest showings we can when we go see a "kids" movie, just so hopefully most of the theater will be adults.

 

However I think the issue is deeper than just unruley kids are anoying, the problem is that parents aren't allowed to discipline their children in public.  If a child is screaming their head off at home, a parent can still spank them.  But in public they risk being seen and reported to child services for the same act.  So kids learn that in public they can get their way easier cause the parents have no choice but to give in, but good parents shouldn't do that, which means their kid is just going to scream all the more, anoying the other people in the area all the more.

 

So I think this is just a natural response to a bigger deeper problem in our society that really has nothting to do with our value of children, but with what constitues good and apropriate discipline.

Aug 4, 2011 10:21 AM Guest Angela  says:

I have 3 beautiful children and I am well aware of the challenge of facing unwelcomed outbursts in public places.  However, I think I have more compassion on parents who attempt to "do" something to correct their child's behavior. Some parents don't attempt to remove the screaming baby from the room or to stop the child from running around the restaurant. If I was a store owner, I would not want that family in my store at that moment either. We parents need to teach our kids that certain places warrant certain behaviors and we must consistently correct them when they are out of line.  Believe me, I know that can be exhausting, but eventually the kids will "get it".  My kids are now ages 6 -12, but even when they were younger, they learned to become model citizens in public places. I think this ban on kids has a lot to do with parents who do not teach decorum.

Aug 4, 2011 3:41 PM Guest Tobie L.  says:
I do not support establishments banning children.  I believe this indicates a strong intolerance for children.  Many of the comments listed accuse parents of misbehaving children of being lazy and not disciplining their children.  Be careful before you judge!  As the parent of a child with autism I have been subjected to a great deal of  criticism when our child has had melt downs in public.  Most of the time he behaves well.  We try to eat in child friendly restaurants, shop when he is in a good mood, but is impossible to avoid public melt downs.  What should we do, never leave the house?  Never travel?  Maybe if a child is acting up in public, it would be good to offer some sympathy to the parent and ask if they need any help.  You never know  what the situation may be.  If these laws become widespread, we will not be able to go anywhere.
Aug 4, 2011 10:28 AM Guest Barbara  says:

It would be nice to have some more expensive restaurants reserved for adults only. It would also be nice if adults who like to take their children out to eat would help to make all children welcome. If your child is causing a distraction or otherwise annoying diners and/or staff, please calmly remove the child until you can restore calm. We took our children out to eat at family restaurants when they were young, but we did not allow them to be disruptive. I love to see well behaved children in restaurants or other places I might visit. I do make allowances for infants But even infants can and should be removed from the vicinity of

other customers when they are crying loudly and uncontrollably.  I would imagine that removing the parents and the child would help the parents to feel less stressed and calm down which, in turn. would help the child calm down.

Aug 4, 2011 10:29 AM Guest Jill  says:
I completely agree with many of the comments expressing they think this is okay. We even recognize the need for this in our churches and play groups... and fill that need in various ways - Moms Nights Out, scrapbooking weekends, etc. I LOVE spending time with my daughter, and I LOVE having quiet dates at restaurants with my husband. I completely agree with the comment from Rogers... This is the market responding to a need, and since families with children are a consumer group, the market will provide for them. And... favorable attitudes toward children cannot be regulated or enforced legally. Like our faith, they are lived out by us, one person at a time, and "caught" by others. We seek to legislate protection for children (from death through abortion, from abuse, etc.). But we cannot successfully legislate an attitude; we need to live it. :-)
Aug 4, 2011 1:42 PM Guest Kathleen B.  says:

I agree with what Mike said about this being indicative of a "me first" attitude.  If you look in many of these responses, it is all about "me, me, me".  What I want.  How I want my experience to be.  Thank goodness people didn't treat us that way when we were growing up.  I wonder if we are thinking about how this will influence or instruct the next generation.  I also agree with Mike that influence, not mandating is the answer.  And, of course, free trade will find other solutions if we fail in the higher good.

Aug 4, 2011 10:35 AM Guest Tracy  says:
Although I would not be surprised to see our society growing intolerant of children, however my first thought on this is... I think so many parents do not parent.  I understand completely a two year old's tantrums, but I think too many parents don't think about how their kids being loud and obnoxious is rude to those around and they just let them do it.  I am a mother of 3, and I know there have been times (lots of them) that my kids have started acting up.  But I take them out, somewhere more private and deal with it!  I can't begin to tell you how many times I've seen parents just ignore their kids outbursts.  I think that we, as parents need to do a better job at teaching our children manners.  The kids are only going to rise to our expectations.  On the other side, I do understand, when you have a basket of groceries and your child chooses to start screaming and there's really nothing you can do at that moment, but at restraunts, movie theatres, etc., it's just rude.
Aug 4, 2011 10:38 AM Guest Ginny  says:
When my children were younger and misbehaved in a restaurant, either I or my husband, would take them outside immediately so others could enjoy their meal.  Once they were in control, they were allowed to come back in.  This is rarely done today.  I have heard children screaming for a long time before parents have received enough looks from others to know it is time to take them outside.  Control is taught at home, not at the restaurants or retail stores. If you don't have control at home with your children, then it must be practiced until they have learned that screaming won't get them their way.  I don't blame people for wanting a peaceful meal.  Many of today's parents have much to learn about parenting.
Aug 4, 2011 1:44 PM Guest Greg S.  says:

What an intriguing issue that speaks to two vital issues going on in America today: the deterioration of the family in many circles and the eroding of so many of our freedoms. While this certainly could be an attempt by some businesses to make a statement that children are more a nuisance than a blessing (which I wholeheartedly disagree with - I adore my three children), I believe the bigger issue here is that a private business has the right to make decisions that best serve their business interests. They're not hurting anyone by providing a place for those who would prefer to shop or eat in a child-free environment - there are still plenty of places for parents to go with their children. And in a free society, if child-friendly establishments become scarce, the market will prompt entrepeneurs to open businesses that are not only friendly to families but that trumpet their family-friendly features from their marketing rooftops.

So, I'm not too concerned with this trend. And I certainly hope no one begins to call for an already over-involved government to step in and dictate what businesses can do in this area. Trust our free system to provide enough establishments to meet most people's needs and wishes.

Aug 4, 2011 10:40 AM Guest Barbara  says:
I think poor parenting has caused the need for these rules.  When my children behave in public, most store and restaurant employees are shocked at how well behaved they are.  I am no miracle parent.  I have taught my children to act the way my mother taught me and her mother taught her, to be respectful of others. (Toddlers excluded - they are works in progress and it is the parent's job to manage the expected tantrums by removing them from other people)   Our society has become so self-centered and mannerless, that such child-less rules are becoming more common.  There are many rules being put in place for adults too that used to be common courtesy.  Once I was in a beautiful cathedral listening to a live accapella choral concert that was being recorded.  The accoustics were so perfect in the cathedral and the notes rang free, but right behind us was an adorable 2 year old with patent leather shoes with hard wooden heals which clicked constantly onto the wooden pews and tile floors.  The mother was asked nicely and courteously to take her child to the back so not to disturb the audience or interfere with the recording.  In a huff the mother stated, "My child belongs in the house of the Lord!" and refused to take her out.  It was not a church service, it was an all-state choir performance being performed in a Cathedral.  Common courtesy is no longer common in America, I'm afraid.
Aug 4, 2011 1:45 PM Guest Nancy K.  says in response to Julie D.:
I am at the tailend of raising 6 kids.  Since we home schooled them, they were were with me most all the time, everywhere I went.  We had church, grocery store and restaurant behavior etc, in which they knew what was expected of them.  They also knew there were consequences of they did not act appropriately.  Therein lies the problem.  Like so many other people said, parents don't discipline their children anymore.  Sometimes it is an inconvenience and a sacrifice to have to take your fussy or unruly child out of a public place to enforce your rules.  But it has great rewards for the child and for the parent.  It is not the child's fault that they do not know how to behave, it is the parents' responsiblity to teach and train them.  In this tragic age of broken homes and families with many addictions and dysfunction it is up to us that have some truth and experience to help those who need it.
Aug 4, 2011 1:46 PM Guest Kathleen B.  says:
I agree with what Mike said.  This is indicative of the "me first" trend in our society.  If you look at many of these comments, how many involve, "me, me, me".  "Me and my comfort."  Thank goodness people didn't treat us this way when we were growing up.  I'm sure all of us acting out and threw a tantrum or two.  I wonder if we have considered how this attitude and these actions will affect the next generation.  I also agree with Mike that the solution is to influence, not mandate. Of course, I agree that if this is embraced other solutions will arise. But, I don't believe they are as likely to build, embrace, teach, and love.  We can't influence and love if we just segregate bad behavior.
Aug 4, 2011 1:49 PM Guest Debbie  says in response to Kathy:
I think this seems selfish.  Really, fellow Christians, I understand we are to live in this world, BUT,  "do not be conformed to this world..." (Romans 12:2).  This is such a worldly, selfish idea to ban children from restaurants, movies, etc.  Children are a heritage from the Lord; blessings from God!  My husband & I have 8 children and almost 6 grandchildren.  It is our job as parents to train up our children to behave well at home as well as out in public!  If they misbehave, then we deal with it.
Aug 4, 2011 1:48 PM Guest Paul K.  says:
The more serious issue is what has society or the system or the powers that be; what kind of mess have they imposed on normally rational humans such that these normally rational humans can no longer tolerate normal childhood behaviour?  How frazzled are their nerves at the end of the day that they cannot stand a little bit of noise?  (A noise I might add that lets us know that we as a species will continue.)  How driven have the alleged movers and shakers made us so that we take normal indications of life to be an annoyance.  This is tragic.  That bankers and politicians and lawyers etc have turned us into driven people who need silence so badly that children are not wanted and can no longer be seen as a blessing from the LORD.
Aug 4, 2011 10:43 AM Guest Larry  says in response to Susan:
Susan - wow, what an intelligent and nice to read comment you provided!  I was all set to spout my opinion on the reasons why it's absolutely good and important to allow businesses and the marketplace to function on their own, and if that means disallowing children - then by all means, allow it.  After reading your post, I fully believe that the main problems with our society could be rectified if more people took individual responsibility and accountability for their actions.  What you explained in training your children is a model example of what parents SHOULD do if they take their role of parenting seriously, and lovingly provide the guidance and instruction that children need!  Again - thank you for your comment, and for your contribution to society with well behaved children!
Aug 4, 2011 1:50 PM Guest C.H. L.  says in response to G.E.:
I agree, G.E.  I don't think children belong at funeral services anyway.  I went to an open-casket funeral when I was a kid, and I had nightmares about it for weeks!  My mother fell over a kid who was rolling on the floor during the reception at another memorial service.  I didn't even know where the parents were.
Aug 4, 2011 10:46 AM Guest Emelwilsmum  says:

It's just stunning how many PERFECT parents and children there WERE in the world! Who knew so many people managed children SO well in days of old. The real fact is that most of these post-parents posting here didn't take their kids out nearly as much as they "remember" doing. In the past couple generations LIFE was different than it is today. People were home alot more, and going out was a rare-ish occasion.

Modern parenting is harder than ever before - sorry to all of you super-post-disciplinarians. The support that parents of old had is not available to parents of today. Grandparents are still working themselves to pay for baby-boomer lifestyles run amok. It's those same baby-boomers that expect that they DESERVE it all and that includes childless church, restaurants, theaters, pools, parks, doctor/dentist offices, etc. The list goes on and on. My own baby-boomer mother visited our local pool with my 3 children and myself and complained about and harangued children in the pool for splashing her and swimming too close to her. I had to remind her that we were at a semi-public pool and getting splashed is expected in a pool environment and she was inthe pool. She was annoyed to say the least at the pool behaviour around her. She's the same in all of the above mentioned scenarios as well. The common expectation of the boomers is that they're done with that "kid business" and they want it out of their entire orbit as well.

 

By the way, I'm a 44 year old mother of a 9, 7, and 3 year old. I consider myself to be mature and smart. BUT PARENTING IN TODAYS ENVIRONMENT IS HARDER THAN EVER BEFORE. I can't say it enough. And all the people that commented about all the bad parents out there not doing their job clearly do not understand the confused environment out there for parents today. We're told to do it all right, discipline perfectly, don't discipline at all, don't dare touch your child, give them a good spank if they act up, don't allow them to be disprespectful, let them be themselves, and on and on the contradictions flow around us. Meanwhile, generally parents today are just trying to survive and hold on to some semblance of sanity, which is easier for some than others due to the nature of each individual child.

SO: for all the POST-PARENTS putting their two cents in here, consider the desperate needs of all those unruly parents and children out there that you're so quick to judge while you reminisce about how well you did it in your day.

 

... and I can't thank enough the few people here, mostly men I notice, that clarified the very hard nature of parenting and their kind and positive words for parents trying and trying and trying and still not doing it quite right for all those out there that manage(d) so well. It brought tears to my overwhelmed eyes.

Aug 4, 2011 10:48 AM Guest Jo Anne  says:
When I was a child and my family was invited to very posh restaurants as part of my father's business, my parents made sure I understood what the ground rules were -- children are to be seen and not heard, period.  That being said my husband and I made sure ours understood that when we were out in public loud, obnoxious behavior would NOT be tolerated; we continued this legacy with our granddaughter, and were complimented on her then 2-yr old behavior while dining at the restaurant in the Heathman Hotel in Portland OR one evening.  Unfortunately, in this modern culture children are allowed to do whatever whenever without any boundaries whatsoever.  It is any wonder that our country is having so much trouble and that there are child-free zones being created?  Lovingly train the children up in the way they should go people!!!!
Aug 4, 2011 10:50 AM Guest Merina  says:
I agree with the comments that state the problem is more with poor parenting then with society becoming intolerant to children.  I have two very "high energy" boys and my husband & I didn't go out to eat with them when they were young because it would be torture for us, for the boys, and for the other restauratn patrons.  I feel children are more catered to now than in the past.  Almost to a fault.  What they want matters more than what the parent wants.  My neighbors and I were just talking about how few children can look an adult in the eye and say "thank you".  Parents will excuse their child by saying "they're just shy".  But, that's another topic for another day!
Aug 4, 2011 10:51 AM Guest Karen  says:
My children are grown and out of the home. I would probably not go to a business that banned children. I am concerned that our society is looking down on young children. With out children there will not be another generation.  When our children were young we took them out with us but when they were with us we did not go to the most expensive restaurants.  We find that the more expensive and we don't go to the most expensive restaurants have fewer children. The cost of their meals was out of our pocket range. But they do need to have some exposure so they can learn how to act in that environment.  If our children acted up, they were taken out of the restaurant to the car or to the restrooms and the problem was dealt with and when they returned their behavior was more calmer than before. Usually they were needing to use the bathroom but instead of saying so they acted up.  (They were not spanked in public there are ways to deal with bad behavior without spanking, but spanking was reserved for those out right rebellious times usually at home.)
Aug 4, 2011 3:08 PM Guest Roger W.  says:
It's long overdue. It's the natural outcome to the lack of parental control and discipline. In this case the correct people are being punished. The kids aren't going to miss the restaurants they are barred from. In some cases their actions are the result of them not getting to eat where they want. They come in mad and it goes down hill from there.
Aug 4, 2011 3:12 PM Guest Carol  says:

I remember in the 50's that some theaters had soundproof rooms with windows so the parents of young children could watch and hear the movies and the rest of the theater was not disurbed by crying babies, etc.

 

Some restaurants had signs that said "well behaved" children were welcome.

 

I see no excuse for children running and yelling in a nice resturant, (and some are old enough to know better.)   Leave them home until they can be expected to use good manners.  Perhaps rooms for people with young children could be provided?

Aug 4, 2011 3:13 PM Guest John C.  says:
Keep letting the children in! While I don't like loud fussy children in a restaurant or other public place, I want them to be a part of our society. Children are people, too. Management and staff of a restaurant could offer assistance to parents dealing with unruly or upset children. Sometimes just a pleasant comment from somoeone outside the family can change the situation, and it certainly helps the parent to know we understand.
Aug 4, 2011 10:54 AM Guest Cheri  says:
I have raised two children and took them to restaurants and other places with crowds of people. I made sure my children were well behaved and learned to have "indoor voices" when appropriate. I have been offend, though, when parents let their children act out of control and don't remove them to have a talk and try to calm the child down. There are too many parents out there who do not want to "parent" and let their children run wild. I believe this has caused people to want an "adult only" atmosphere in confined places such as restaurants and movie theaters. Not all children should be excluded. The estabilishment should ask the offending parents to contol their child's running around or remove and calm their child down. Then to return once the child has time to calm down. Children aren't at fault. It is how their parents raise them.
Aug 4, 2011 10:58 AM Guest Deborah  says:
I get the need to be able to go out and not listen to kids being loud and distracting, but I also feel there is already to little interaction with kids overall and that is a root problem with a lot of kids behavior in the first place. There is probably not a simple solution, but I would love to see more family friendly places with solutions than to have the kids not be allowed. Maybe seperate sections.
Aug 4, 2011 3:19 PM Guest Debbie  says:
I am absolutely appalled at the selfishness of this whole idea!  I understand we have to live in this world, BUT according to Romans 12:2 "be not conformed to this world..."!  Why should we as Christians agree with the world's philosophy???  I have seen adults act worse than children in public.  My husband has had to ask high school/college-aged customers to leave our store because they were acting so inappropriately!  It is our job as parents to train our children how to behave at home as well as out in public.  If they misbehave, then it's our job to deal with it appropriately!  It is so sad what this world is coming to...By the way we have 8 children and almost 6 grandchildren and are happy to bring them out with us to restaurants, movie, etc....
Aug 4, 2011 11:11 AM Guest DonaD  says:

Whether it's a sign of the deification of children, lack of parental discipline or concern for others, really makes no difference.  NO business would make such 'rulings' if there were not consumer demand for it.  I am all for it since all the venues you mention are places where disruptive children adversely affect other patrons who are spending more than a few dollars to be there!

Early on in parenting two very active boys, close in age, we learned that there were places we would not be going until they were older.  We were grateful when we no longer HAD to go to McDonald's when fast food was necessary.  Now as empty-nesters who can only occasionally see our "500+ mile away" grandchildren and we know where to go/not to go. 

Children of the appropriate age should be removed by their parents from theatres if they disturb others. Yes, I DO advocate that even if you sit apart to observe them when they are older when most parents allow them to go alone.  Having to leave a movie just once will fix behavior problems swiftly, not to mention embarassment to their peers.    Teaching consideration for others while out in public is both caught and taught.

I would commend establishments who have such child-free times as a boon to business and maybe a wake-up call to parents who have been oblivious to the consternation their children cause. 

This trend sadly is during worship also in many churchs.  Young parents just don't realize that the nurserys  are for THEM.  There are at least 10 newborns to age 2 in our church.  If all the parents decided to keep them with them in service and each one was taken out at their first peep, that would be 10 interruptions in the sermon.  Do they think of that?  I doesn't appear so.

Aug 4, 2011 11:13 AM Guest Colin  says:

There are really 2 issues here: First is the poor parenting skills which manifest in public places with tantrums and inappropriate behaviour. The second is the proliferation of of increasingly narcissistic adults that place their pleasure and desires above everything else. This is the bitter root of the same-sex marriage issue we face today. The narcissistic adults of today are the selfish brats of yesterday.

 

Banning children from certain times and places has become a necessity,  a band aid to deal with the symptom of a deeper problem. I have 2 daughters, and I fully support these restrictions. An expensive restaurant is NOT the place for kids - they hardly appreciate the cuisine and they would be much happier in a restaurant that has a play area.

 

Children are a blessing, but throughout scripture, there is plenty of guidance that teaches a lot about bringing them up in the ways of the Lord. Proverbs 22:6: "Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it."(NIV)

 

Too many parents have failed to meet their obligations in raising their children, and society is paying the price in the form of hordes of unruly brats that are a law unto themselves. The brat of today is the criminal of tommorrow.

 

Parenthood is reponsibility as well as a blessing, and we need to follow the biblical pattern instead of the worldy ways that produce the nasty little brats that restaurants and airlines are trying to defend themselves against. Part of the upbringing is discipline with love, so enforcing discipline is showing love.

 

Restaurants, airlines and stores are fully entitled to introduce these rules, because other customers have paid money for their service, and should be entitled to it without having to deal with someone else's poor parenting skills.

Aug 4, 2011 2:17 PM Guest Peggy C.  says:
This is definetely a sign of intolerance and the destroying of the family unit.  Just a sign of the times.
Aug 4, 2011 11:13 AM Guest Cali  says:

If individual businesses want to do that, that is fine, but it should not become law through government. That way it can always be adjusted if it turned out to be a poor decision they chan then change their policy. Also if there a particualr resteraunt that is adult ony(meaning only people above a certain age(and not content wise) or telling people that no screaming kids will be allowed to stay, that is fine too, cuz it would be nice for people to go out and not have to worry about their ears bursting due to the noise that the kids can make.

.

I know there are times, when I or somebody I know could not stand any more noise for the rest of the day because  they hear screaming children all day at work. There are times when a kid throws a fit and its really loud, it really annoys me.

Aug 4, 2011 2:18 PM Guest Mary Kay S.  says:
Unfortunately, many parents don't discipline their children well enough for the children to be out in public places. I have six children and ten grandchildren but they are well behaved when we take them out. Otherwise, we don't take them or we take them out of the place if they misbehave. It's sad to see No Children signs but I understand the reason.
Aug 4, 2011 11:18 AM Guest Lorene  says:
I work in an expensive restaurant and kids are welcome yet not encouraged to come. It is hard for a little one to sit 2-2h30 without making "much" noise, almost against his nature and usually the kids ends up very bored, sleeping on the table or the parents have to cut short and leave. It is not fair for the rest of the customers that pay a high price to have a quiet and romantic dinner to have a noisy kid next to them. I believe that are certain times and places where adults should takes time for each other without their children. America is a great place to live in and is probably the most advanced country that offer many kids' friendly places, just go there when you have your kids and every one is happy.
Aug 4, 2011 11:20 AM Guest Dan  says:

My children are older (teenagers) so for my wife and I we prefer to go out and enjoy a quiet evening where we can talk and enjoy each other's company.  With that said, I like the idea of restaurants catering to adults with a child free environment.  I don't think we have to worry about all restaurants doing this however.  Families are a large consumer base for the restaurant industry so they will always welcome them.  This trend to offer child-free dining may be the result of a broad trend of rudeness where many families let their children act up and scream in public venues.  When confronted they act offended and in most cases won't do anything believing they have a right to enjoy their meal, movie or event with screaming child in hand.  This lack of social decency has me concerned and shows how selfish and inconsiderate of a society we've become.  Unfortunately, this has even carried over into the church.  As an usher, I had the terrible task of confronting a mother with crying child in service the other day.  She let her baby cry for ten minutes before I came over to kindly remind her that we have cry rooms in the back of the chuch available for her and her child.  She was not happy with me but she did finely move.  Its a shame she did not have the awareness that she and her baby were disrupting the service.

 

Children are absolutely a blessing from the Lord and should be protected and nurtured.  But as parents, we have a calling and responsbility to raise them in the ways of the Lord.  We also need to be salt and light in this world by showing respect, kindness, gentleness, self control and more.  I can think of no better gateway to witnessing then to have well behaved children who are considerate of others.  Its a lot of work but a goal that could glorify the Lord.

Aug 4, 2011 11:22 AM Guest Rick  says:
We are empty nesters with 3 grown children and 3 grand children. I guess it is up to the individual business if they do not want to serve families with children, undisaplined children are very common and can be a real annoyance. I would be more annoyed with the parents lack of supervision than blaming the child. We generally eat at upper scale restaurants, that families won't go to anyway, so we seldom have issues while eating out. We fly coach and put up with kids and babies, they are a blessing and not any more a problem than sitting next to someone obese or with body odor. You just allow the Lord to let you tolerate certain things. we must remember we are here for such a short time, some things are not worth getting angry over. we can't begin to boycott businesses that make decisions to try and attract their targeted clientel. we don't go to the places that are frequented by homosexuals either, simply becasue we don't care to see the display of their lifestyle. Those businesses do not get nor do they want my business. As far as children flying first class, I can't imagine that can be very frequent, but then there is a lot of money out there spent very foolishly.
Aug 4, 2011 11:25 AM Guest holly  says:

I have a small child, and I still agree with the policy.  The truth is, no one appreciates a screaming child, not even when it's their own...but ESPECIALLY when it's not their own.  If I go through the trouble to get a baby sitter to watch my baby while my husband and I go out on a rare "date night", the last thing I want is to have a screaming baby to keep us company while we are away from him.  I don't think this should be a round the clock rule, but I think offering kid free hours or kid free movie showings are a good idea.  However, I don't see a point in offering kid-free showings of family or children's' movies.

 

I also agree with the airlines.  People pay more to ride first class because it's more comfortable than coach.  More room, less NOISE, better food, more comfortable chairs, etc.  Why should they have to have their flight disrupted by a screaming child.  That is part of the reason they pay the big bucks!  I also agree with what the article said that children are just unpredictable.  I sit near the back at church, on days there is no nursery service, with my son in case he starts to cry, so that I can quietly excuse myself should I need too. If he cries at a restaurant when we are all out as a family, I go outside.  It's polite to take your child outside when you can.  I love my son and he is a HUGE blessing from the Lord.  I would never trade him for extra sleep or silence.  But, when I'm in public, and it's not my child, I don't want to hear it.

Aug 4, 2011 11:26 AM Guest Lisa  says:
I am shocked by so many comments that are selfish. Your comments don't reflect those of one who have family values. Children are precious in God's eyes and should be so in ours too! A business does have the right to do what it wants, but that does not mean that we as Christians should  agree with it. We should be outraged that our children are not wanted in public places.  Next it could be those who are handicapped, overweight, or maybe we have to be of the same sex to eat in a restaurant. Once this begins the discrimination may not stop. This I feel, is a turn from family values. I for one will not support a business that does not want all of my family  present!
Aug 4, 2011 4:54 PM Guest Dinorah  says:
I'm a mother of 3, ages 6, 7, and 14.  We do our best to "train up" our children to be polite and mindful, but the world is their classroom.  I work in education and know that one first receives the instructions at home (theory of how things work) and then they apply what they learned out in the "real world".  Of course there will be a few melt downs, but please bear with the children and parents as they are in the "training stage".  My girls continue to have "fits", but they are now more "manageable" as they know I mean business.  I will say that both my husband and I are Latinos and we view children in public places slightly different.  We expect to see children everywhere and hearing a screaming child in a restaurant (other than our own) is no big deal, we just speak louder.  If there are other Latino mothers or young girls in the area of a screaming child, they may very well offer to sooth the baby, especially if they know each other.  As for "child free" places, we would not visit as my husband considers it a great insult, (including most weddings).  I respect the couples decision to choose their own venue and I do attend most times, but we agree that my husband stay with the children (although he does it more as a sign of protest) and I respect that too.    
Aug 4, 2011 11:33 AM Guest Dean S  says:
I love the Lord and raised four children and now have four grandchildren under the age of one.  We are so spoiled in this country.  I was 12 years old before I ever went to a restaurant because the were none available.  This is just another subject for Christians to whine about and look foolish.  We should be rejoicing and thankful that we have so many choices to take our kids to eat.  If there are a few first class places that prefer not to allow children, they have a good reason for it because in a free enterprise system nobody turns down a paying customer unless it drives other customers away.  By the way, when one's children can sit calmly through dinner at home and church on Sunday, they have been trained well enough to try dinner in public.
Aug 4, 2011 11:37 AM Guest Gene  says:
Our society makes it hard for us to publiclly discipline our children.  Also, our society as a whole does not discipline their children like in times past.  If discipline were administered quickly and children were well behaved, there would be little need to even discuss having restaurants, theatres, etc. off limits to children.  Adults love well disciplined children and well disciplined children come from parents who discipline, however, many times parents are now hampered in their discipline or punishment by law and even societal norms.
Aug 4, 2011 1:24 PM Guest Laura S.  says:

Well, our church implements a "childless" sanctuary rule.  We are not supposed to bring our children into the sanctuary; but are strongly requested to take them to children's church at the very beginning of the service.

I would love to have our family worship together but due to the fact that not everyone trains their children how to behave during a service, we all have to leave our children in a classroom.

Aug 4, 2011 1:25 PM Guest Mrs J.  says:
It is not my intention to offend anyone, but it has been my experience that often the most poorly behaved children are from CHRISTIAN homes! I'm a christian and love my brothers and sisters but I pray for grace when their bratty children attend a special event. If a family cannot or will not impart manners and respect for others to their children then I humbly suggest they keep them at home.
Aug 4, 2011 1:26 PM Guest Bob S.  says:
I don't like being disturbed while dining any more than anyone else.  However, I can tune it out and ignore the noise, or I can make faces at the child and get them to giggle.  Either way, learning proper behavior "requires" that the child be exposed to different circumstances and places so they can learn how to behave in all of them.  Banning children from restaurants removes that opportunity for learning.  Then these people want to expose the child at age 6 to a completely new environment and expect the child to react with perfect decorum.  I think not.
Aug 4, 2011 11:40 AM Guest Theresa  says:
I shop regularly at Whole Foods and I am also a mom of 5 kids.  I was really unhappy to read that Whole Foods has childless hours, so I wanted to look into it.  It appears that Whole Foods is not saying that you cannot bring in your kids to shop during these hours, but that they will offer childcare during these hours.  You can still choose to shop with your children during that time if you want.  You just can choose to get a break if you want also.
Aug 4, 2011 11:43 AM Guest Sydney  says in response to Susan:

I agree with Susan.  I've been in public where parents deal with a misbehaving child (and often sleepy child who should be home in bed due to hour) and I've also see parents just give in to the child's demands to keep the peace.  It is true children need to be trained before they're taken out in public......it's easier on the parents, and easier on the child.  That training begins in the home, and I'm afraid so many families today don't even sit down and eat together.  It's a free for all.....eat what you want, when you want.

 

There are plenty of child-friendly places to take little ones, if parents don't care how they behave.  I think it's fine if a few establishments want to make their place adults only.

Aug 4, 2011 11:45 AM Guest Carol  says:
When I heard about the restaurant that is not allowing young children, my first reaction was, "good for them!"  I love my kids (they are now grown), but I feel upset when my husband and I go out for a nice dinner and a screaming child spoils it for us - it feels  like a waste of hard-earned money. (However, my children almost always behaved in restaurants at every age.  We taught them "restaurant rules").  Often the parents are oblivious to the fact that their child is disturbing others and do not take them outside.  The restaurant owners should be allowed to make this rule if they want a quiet atmosphere for their customers.  One of the things that makes this country great is the freedom to choose without so much government regulation.  I am surprised that Focus on the Family is taking this stance.
Aug 4, 2011 11:46 AM Guest Janet  says:

As a mother, I know it was and is a blessing when I can go somewhere for a few hours and not have to listen to children.  Judging from the comments, there are many who agree.  But we must be careful to look at the principle behind the decisions of these establishments.

 

I am not sure that the issue here is so much "Is this a trend of dislike for children or a blessing to parents."  The issue, I think, is this: does a restaurant or a store have the right to set its own perimeters on what, when and to whom it will sell?

 

I believe that these establishments have the God-given right to freedom of association.  If they want to have "children-free" resturants, hours, or certain days, they certainly may.  That is what our War for Independence was fought for. If they want to provide a service, they may.

However, I also have a God-given right to freedom of association, and I can choose whether to patronize the establishment or not.

 

We are so used to getting upset over what someone else does that we fail to ask ourselves if that person has the right to do it, even if we do not like it.  We want everyone to play nice, according to some rules somewhere, and we want someone (read:government) to make sure they do.  But that only leads to governmental interference in our lives.

 

We have forgotten that the pressure of the free market may be used at any time, and we can take our money elsewhere. If an airline will not allow children on their planes, perhaps another will open to cater to families.  Same with restaurants and stores, etc.

 

I understand that we want to protect our right to take our children out in public, and we want to watch carefully where this goes.  But we cannot stop God-given rights of others, or else we will have to live with government telling us what we can and cannot do in every aspect of our lives.

 

Oh, wait......

Aug 4, 2011 11:50 AM Guest Mary  says:
I'm not surprised that a ban on children is becoming rather common-place in business.  I see more parents befriending their children these days intead of guiding and training their children.  The minute a business would address the obnoxious behavior I know the parent would become indignant and confrontational.  There is no enjoyment being around undisciplined children.  When my  boys were young, we ate out frequently at nice resturants and their behavior was superb.  My youngest was a handful and got left at home with a sitter often.  As he matured though, he finally caught on to resturant manners and expectations when out in public.  Parents adore their children-but that doesn't mean everyone else does.  An owner should definately have the say about whom he serves if behavior iis an issue.  Maybe, resturants could offer the parents a class night with their children in order to practice acceptable behavior when eating out in public.
Aug 4, 2011 1:30 PM Guest william j.  says:
This goes along with spirit of gay marriage and the elimination of children as a whole.... How can this be? Ask Japan they have zero population growth  and are trying everything in their power to restore this tread by offering money incentives to have kids.. What is stopping them is a very strong pull of materialism  not homosexuality. I say that because the Devil will use anything to stop people from having babies. China has a 1 child policy..again this is another attack on children after they are born. Before they are born they have abortion to quiet them down.  In the end  time the love of many shall wax cold...
Aug 4, 2011 1:31 PM Guest Jeff  says:

Though I see a multitude of comments, especially using scripture, I think it wise to take everything in context. I am a father of 5 from the ages of 10-23, so I think my perspective has some weight in todays hustle to make a point. First, from a Biblical viewpoint, in context, Christ wasn't stating that children should be allowed anywhere they or their parents want take them. Being a parent doen't always equate to mature and sensible thinking either. Are you truly offending a child when you take him into an environment that is inappropriate for him/her? Like PG-13 and above movies, upscale restuarants, bars, first class (Really?), on too many levels they (and possibly you) have no business being there. Over the coarse of the last few decades parental consent or judgement has deteriorated to its lowest denominator. Honestly, I've seen this in our very churches today. A born again Christian with a young child (out of control) in the adult worship that refuses to exit and calm the child down. Meanwhile, a few seats over is a lost seeker who is totally distracked and misses Gods truth. I've also seen small children in movies, the theater, and 5 star restaurants. They were hardly behaving (or even knew how) and the parents were in their own worlds tossing food at them like pets.

Whether its church or public spaces, I think our generation has trouble drawing the line between appropriate and inappropriate. Its a parenting mandate that you learn this before entering the public or don't be upset the this world with see you and your child for what it is, a hit on the bottom line... Remember, we are called to be salt and light, not them.

Aug 4, 2011 11:55 AM Guest Annie  says:

I fully support the right of businesses to offer childfree services.  I DON'T want the gov't involved and I don't see this as anti-child.  Let's face it; some parents refuse to discipline their children; they bring young children who are already exhausted to a nice resturant (church), they misbehave and everyone else's meal (worship) is disturbed.  Why bring an infant to a movie; if parents don't want to leave their baby with a sitter, stay home with him?  This is not about Jesus allowing children to come to Him; this is about parents being responsible for their children.  We took our children almost everywhere we went, but we taught them manners at home.

 

There are places where children can be children and I enjoy seeing them there; parks, amusement parks, sports events, etc.  I do not enjoy them running through the isles of church, a plane, theater, resturant, store, or any building.  I do not accept that I am selfish to want to enjoy my meal, movie or time with my family without someone else's child(ren) acting up.  Do you have "children's church" at your place of worship or do you struggle to worship and hear the sermon above fussy and crying children?

 

Don't forget the safety factor.  The very parents who fail to watch their children want to sue if they are injured.  In a perfect world where parents train up a child in the way he should go, children are welcome everywhere.

Aug 4, 2011 1:32 PM Guest Toni L.  says:
I believe this is definitely a sign of growing intolerance to children. Children are a gift from the Lord. Period.
Aug 4, 2011 11:59 AM Guest Chris  says:
I love kids. I wish the word intolerance would not be used so quickly.  This is not about intolerance of kids.  It is about parents who do not disclipline their kids, and think they have the right to impose the unruly behavior on everyone else present in the restaurant, store, etc.  It's not just one or two either. It is an epidemic.  I understand kids are unpredictable, but why can't the parent remove them from the restaurant or store.  Discipline them. Something!  And if they can't, then feed them at home till they learn. I'm sure storeowners and restaraunt owners, employees do not  enjoy confrontation or the parents who take offense at being called out. So the blanket prohibition works better for the establishments than having to remove these parents one by one.
Aug 4, 2011 12:01 PM Guest Deb  says:
My husband and I had a blended family of six.  We have shared a date night once a week for 11 years. We have waited patiently (and sometimes not so patiently!) for the day each one would launch!  Now we have grandchildren to enjoy and we do.  However, it is my observation that often children today are not parented appropriately.  I personally do not enjoy navigating a shopping cart around out of control children running tither and fro.  I do not enjoy shopping when parents cave in to their ever increasingly demanding children.  I do not enjoy going out to eat and listening to the screams of some youngsters.  Sadly, I must report that I find certain childless envionments very appealing.
Aug 4, 2011 12:04 PM Guest Paul  says:
It is an unfortunate aspect of our current society.  Over the years, my wife and I have found our ability to establish relationships with other families to be very limited because of the behavior of those family's children.  I am not talking about a child having an occasional temper tantrum or acting out.  I am talking about parents who refuse to disciple their children and enforce norms of expected behavior.  When we share activities with families whose children are ill-behaved, disrespectful, or disobedient, and the parents make no effort to monitor or train them, then our children are adversely affected and it is near impossible to have an adult relationship with the parents.  It is not the child's fault, it is the unwillingness or inability of the parents to train their child properly.  If parents will not train their children to behave properly in public -- and again, I am not referring to a poor behavior episode that is used by the parents to train the child properly -- then I am willing to pay the price of having childless arrangements at various establishments in order to have a quiet dinner occasionally with my wife.
Aug 6, 2011 8:33 AM Guest Mark  says:
We certainly appreciate the desire of adults to have a "scream-free" environment while out for the evening at a restaurant or theater.  As parents ourselves, we feel we "paid our dues" by keeping our children under control in public when they were much younger (they are now teenagers).  Nevertheless, I'm concerned that this movement towards exclusion of a class of human beings from common areas--in this case, children--is another manifestation of the trend in American society of marginalizing the family and excluding the family from as much of the prevailing culture and political discussion as possible.  I recall an incident while visiting an American friend of mine who lived in Germany at the time.  One evening out at a restaurant in Munich, my friend pointed out that it was common to see German adults bring their dogs to restaurants, where it is widely permitted.  My friend observed, "The Germans will take their dogs out to restaurants but not their children." 
Aug 4, 2011 12:08 PM Guest Jayne  says:
I may be in the minority, but I think it is a business's right to make the rules for their business. If they can maintain the "no shirt, no shoes, no service", I think it's fair for them to ask for no screaming kids. Many people go out to have a relaxing meal and they pay a heavy price for it. More than one dinner has been interrupted or downright ruined by children that are probably too young to be out in a restaurant setting, with parents unable to control them. Even disciplined kids get tired and cranky eating unfamiliar food and expected to listen to adult conversation. So I feel like it's a fair thing and not a social commentary... Yes, kids ARE a blessing from the Lord, no question, but their outbursts are not.
Aug 4, 2011 12:14 PM Guest Nina  says:
Unfortuately, I see too many parents who are unwilling to remove their children from a venue when the child decides to throw a fit.  As the grandmother of a child who was tantrum prone, I have spent many a dinner out, walking said child out of hearing of the other patrons.  I find parents who are unwilling to allow others the courtesy of pleasant evening to be rude and inconsiderate.  In a time where money is tight, I think child free entertainment has it's place. Since it would be difficult to enforce a policy of "well behaved children only".
Aug 4, 2011 12:15 PM Guest Kris S  says:
Sounds like the kingdom of "Vulgaria" from "Chitty-Chitty-Bang-Bang" has materialized.  It was a fictional society that banned children.  Next thing you know, there will be child catchers roaming the streets.
Aug 4, 2011 12:16 PM Guest Kraig E.  says:

Let us look at some verses for Christians and not at just opinions. First Ps. 127:4-5 "Like arrows in the hand of a warrior are the children of one's youth. Blessed is the man who fills his quiver with them..." Often is this verse quoted as a proud declaration by Christian families with children. Far too often these families and their children show little to be proud of in how their children act. In this verse the psalmist says that children are "like arrows in the hands of a mighty warrior..." There is an indication of skill. Warriors trained in shooting arrows hit the mark or the target with their arrows. They aim at what they hit at. The arrows/children of a godly father/mother hit the mark in how their children behave/act. They are a testimony of boundaries, peace, joy, kindness to others. The second part of v. 5 which is rarely if ever quoted with the rest says, "He shall not be put to shame when he speaks with his enemies in the gate." There is a variety of thoughts on what this is to mean. I believe that a man's children will not put the man to shame as he sits in the gates and debates with his political enemies. A respected man (such as Boaz) would have a place of respect as a judge/congressman in the gates of a city. His council would have been sought after if it his reputation proved worthy. Here the psalmist states that the character/behavior of children are a direct reflection on our reputation. He is stating that the man whose children are respectful, obedient, godly, straight and strong will not give his enemies, his political rivals, opportunities to discredit his reputation, but instead will lift it up.

 

Secondly, look at Phil. 2:3-4 in response to this article. "Don't act out of selfish ambition or be conceited. Instead, humbly think of others as being better than yourselves. Don't be concerned only about your own interests, but also be concerned about the interests of others." As believers we need to be and to teach our children to be "thinking of others more than ourselves and our own interests." We must think of the preciousness of others. This extends to restaurants, planes, public places. We must train our children to be respectful of others possessions, space, time, etc. This must hit the mark in being godly examples to others. Many times I have had others (especially older individuals) come and thank me for how friendly and respectful my children were in a restaurant. I say this not to toot my own horn, but that it is an opportunity to share Jesus Christ with those people. My children have "not put me to shame" but instead have given my character and reputation an opportunity to share the Gospel with others, to provide encouragement to others. When we get upset by pronouncements like these, we must ask ourselves if we are thinking of others more than ourselves. I make sure that if I am going to a nice restaurant or to a movie theater, etc. that I don't bring my little children along that would struggle in such an environment and in respecting others. If I can't hire a babysitter to watch them, then I don't go and chance offending others. I also think of my children more than myself by not putting them in a place where it would be difficult to be obedient and respectful. I do not want to "provoke my children to wrath" by placing them somewhere that would cause them not to be obedient.

 

Lastly, individuals have the right to make expectations for those that enter their property or use their services. We have the opportunity of making declaration by our not using their property or services. That is the blessing of living in a free market economy in a country that at least outwardly espouses freedom. This is a gaurantee in the Bill of Rights (Amendment 3, 4, 9). Others cannot force me to do things with my property that I do not want to do. If someone came over to my house and began breaking things or acting in a manner not allowed in my house, then I have the right to ask them to leave. Such is the case with these laws and based on Phil. 2:3,4, as believers we should respect those who are placing these restrictions and honor their actions.

Aug 4, 2011 12:19 PM Guest Happy To Be A Mom  says:
It's so sad to me to see so many people not want to be with their children or around other peoples children. I love the sound of a new baby crying. It makes me smile to know there is a new life. I think too many people have forgotten it is a miracle and a blessing. We have so many friends who say they vacation without their kids and constantly leave them with sitters to go out. I'm happy to be a mom and do not want to be away from my kids. It's sad to hear other people with children not have that same desire. Ours are normally well behaved, some poeples not always. But so what. That's life. We tolerate porn in the library, people cursing and talking nasty everywhere, television and radio has gone way over the line and we want to whine over noisy kids?? What about single parents or those without family nearby to watch them or like me who just don't want to be without them? Why are we catering to a few? There's just not enough people taking a stand. So sad.
Aug 4, 2011 12:23 PM Guest Sarah  says:

Why does it have to be all or nothing. What's wrong with a little bit of specialization. Private business should have the right to pick and choose their clientele. There are some eating establishments that are geared toward children, many more are what are considered family restaurants. So, why is it so offensive that a few upscale establishments have put in writing what I have always considered one of those unwritten rules? I have three little ones, and I like to eat out with them, but like every parenting decision, I choose what is appropriate for them. My kids are still very young and are not quite 'civilized', at least not yet:D. When they are older and have learned good manners, it would be nice to take them to a special meal at a special place. I can't see that happening before the tender age of six. Until then I have no problem sticking to a family friendly restaurant, and letting those who would prefer some grown-up time enjoy it.

Aug 4, 2011 12:24 PM Guest Jason  says:

As a Christian and American, I believe that every business is a privately owned entity, not public as our courts have ruled.  I believe as long as it is legal, private business owners have the right to sell/trade what they want to whomever they want for whatever they can get for it.  Thus restaurant owners should be the ones who determine if it is smoking or non-smoking, not the government (although I dislike smoking).  This would apply to this situation as well.  If owners don't want children because they believe it would attract more business, that is their natural God-given right to run their business as they see fit.  Likewise if a business owner wanted to make a store or restaurant only for families that should be his or her decision.  In the end the market (made up of individual citizens) will determine if the owner has made a good decision or not.  Also parents or families demonstrate an opportunity to meet their needs, the market (investors) will open up such a store for the sake of profit.  This is called free markets, which is the only economic system that works (when not manipulated by lobbyists or government regulations) with freedom and liberty!  I will not judge the motive of the owners of the store to determine whether they are good or bad, Christian or non-Christian, godly or godless.  I will simply assume they are trying to run their business in the most effective manner to meet their customers needs and make the best profit they can.

Aug 4, 2011 3:27 PM Guest Gregory W.  says:
My first instinct is to support the child restrictions, at least as long as it does not make life more difficult for the parents of young children. Personally I find screaming children to be one of the most annoying things in the world. Shopping, swimming, movies, church, one screaming child sets off other children and pretty soon you can barely hear yourself think. It isn't the fault of the child or the parent, it just is. I think a sensible parent would remove themselves and their screaming child so that it does not bother everyone else in the room. There is a time and a place for close social life where screaming children are an accepted part of close bonding and living life together. There are also times and places where screaming children are bothersom and an unwelcomed experience, inappropriate for the setting. I think general common sense would be a better ruling to live by, but since common sense is generally in short supply, these rules will have to do for now.
Aug 4, 2011 12:27 PM Guest Dani  says in response to Jeff:

I think that parents these days want to be their childrens friends and "be nice" how does that make you feel Johnny? ... etc.. We should PARENT our children better. They are killings that take place and I can remember when children were protected by the law and given sentances like children. But now since the no spank no repremand thing... they just go out and shoot their parents, teachers or anyone that gets in their way.  People PARENT your children, it's a gift from God like the blessing that He gave you to have these children and raise them for the world not for them to be as the world but as God would have them to be. Recent cases in Florida Port St. Lucy a young man hammered his parents to death b/c they told him he couldn't host a party. Also a Miami young man stab'd another young man that had come from Cuba a few weeks earlier b/c he thought that the other boy was taking away his girlfriend.  His sentance is coming in the next few hours - could be 22 yrs of life in prison - convicted of 2nd degree murder.

SAD!!!

Aug 4, 2011 12:32 PM Guest Ramona  says:
I am single and will never have children because of my age.  I love children and believe that they are a blessing from God.  I am also a physician and realize that one can't predict when a 'meltdown' might happen.  What bothers me is when parents do not even try to help their children learn manners or sit quietly.  Often times in the office I end up disciplining the child that won't behave as their parents seem oblivious and are too busy texting on their phones.  The parents have a responsibility to teach their children to behave and the occasional meltdown is understandable and tolerable.  It is the complete willfill misbehavior and inattention of the parents to that behavior that frustrates me and makes me wish I had gone to an adult only venue.  It all starts with the parents.  
Aug 4, 2011 12:34 PM Guest Bud  says:
Our own children are grown, and our grandchildren are teenagers. When we're in restaurants or first class (or any class) on a plane small children don't usually bother us. The ones that do are unruly and bad mannered children that have circumvented their parent's behavior controls. Yesterday, in a local family restaurant a woman came in with an about 3 year old girl that wanted complete attention from standing on the seat to looking in a nearby mirror and talking about herself in a loud voice. In extreme circumstances I would consider moderate spanking; sometimes the parents first and I don't care how cute or smart you think your child is, mine are smarter and cuter anyway.
Aug 4, 2011 12:35 PM Guest Karin  says:

I find it sad that such measures are necessary.  I want my kids to learn to fit into the world we live in and that means exposing them to different things e.g.. theatre, movies, restaurants, weddings.  I have 3 children, 6 and older, so I am through the toddler years....Yaay!  We used to go to a certain child friendly restaurant so much we knew the menu by heart.  That is what you do when your kids are young and can't sit still.  But the other parents there know this. Now that they are older, we can go to nicer places and expect them to behave.

I do believe there is a trend of intolerance towards children.  The world expects them to be small grown-ups, to sit still and listen to all our wisdom.  When they have an opinion, it is generally frowned upon, because they are children.  The trend is in churches aswell.  Adults do not welcome kids into services if they can't keep quiet.  We teach freedom to worship as we please, but the kids have to be seen and not heard.  I want to be able to take my kids anyware. They are a part of me, we are a family. If they are not welcome, I am not welcome. If you know your toddler is at a difficult age, go to a place where there is space to run and play, and he won't embarrass you. 

I have told people, you are not allowed to give a new parent advice  utill you have had a 2 year old of your own, utill then, keep quiet.   The judgments you make come back to you with intrest added!

Aug 4, 2011 12:36 PM Guest Lynn  says:

Freedom enables a person and or a business to determine what they desired to participate in or offer.  The restaurants that do not wish to serve to children have that choice and certainly there are many restaurants that not only serve but cater to children.

 

It is nice to go to a nicer restaurant and enjoy a meal without the interuptions of children. My husband and I have 5 grown children and 8 grandchildren and enjoy meals with and without them.

 

I don't feel that this should be centered on whether they are being 'family' friendly.  It's their choice to limit their facility as they choose to and your choice as to whether you eat there.

 

This is not a moral concern.

Aug 4, 2011 12:37 PM Guest Ramona  says:
I wouldn't expect anyone to put up with my two year old's screams in a restaurant. We go to restaurants knowing that at any moment we may have to pack up and leave because of disruptive behavior. We have been enjoying dinner and have has children several years older than ours continue screaming and running around for upwards of 15min with the parents not making a move to stop them. I believe that part of loving and welcoming children is also to "train them up" with age-appropriate discipline. I read an interview with the Pennsylvania restaurant owner and he sounded like a very compassionate man stuck between a rock and a hard place. The fact is we parents aren't perfect either, and sometimes we just don't see a need to help quiet our kids or take them home when it seems to be the best choice for all.
Aug 4, 2011 12:38 PM Guest Betty  says:
It's been my experience that loud adults can be as disturbing to a peaceful meal as children, or more so.  I eat out quite a bit but have really not had a problem with out-of-control children near me.  In fact, on the occasion that I observe well-behaved children, I commend them at restaurants, grocery stores, etc.  I hope this is not a trend to further devalue children.  Millions of abortions attest to the fact that so many consider them dispensable.
Aug 4, 2011 12:38 PM Guest Jerimiah  says:

I think this is a dangerous trend of intolerance toward children. It also affects parents as well. It is dangerous because it is segregation by parenthood. I can understand a theater or a restaurant which is designed to cater as romantic, but grocery stores! Children are a blessing, but are seen as a hinderance and inconvienice in our current society.

Aug 4, 2011 12:41 PM Guest Bill_from_Bala  says:

Kids will be kids, just let them be. More of our selfish society, and this "All about me" attitude. "Oh that kid is crying, please make him stop, it is ruining my time in the grocery store." Just wish they would get over themselves.

Aug 4, 2011 3:57 PM Guest Diane  says in response to Agnes:

Being raised in the 50's where discipline, not abuse, was administered, I applaud these restaurants, airlines and movie theaters, etc., for being adults only. I was taught to behave when out in public and you knew if you did not, you were swatted right then and there. A big no no today. And that's the problem. Too many parents just let their children run wild, no boundaries, justifying by saying, 'he's all boy'. Children need boundaries to grow up in a healthy environment. If parents don't let them know who's the parent, who's the child, they will grow up and break their parents' hearts and many wind up in jail for shooting someone when they didn't get their way as adults. Too many parents today say, 'it's all about the child'. No it isn't. That's child worshipping. There are other people in this world to whom they need to show respect. Numerous times my husband and I have been in a restaurant only to have our evening ruined by someone's child who relentlesly screams, hollers, throws temper tantrums, just simply not getting their way. You look at these parents and they are oblvious to what is even going on. They are zoned out. Yes, I feel that if you are paying for a higher dollar meal, paid for 1st class seats on a plane, or whatever the case may be, that we as adults have the right to an enjoyable evening, trip, flight, what have you, without having the constant screaming of a child out of control. There will remain plenty of family friendly restaurants and places for these families to take their unruly children and they can scream and have tantrums with the other children. I'm sure there will be plenty of room in the floor for all of them. I really don't think there is any cause for concern. You have to understand, that many of us Baby Boomers have had enough of being subjected to these unruly children everywhere we turn.

Aug 4, 2011 2:51 PM Guest Shelley S.  says:
Sad to say, this is a sign of our times.  Unfortunately many parents are too busy to take the time to teach their children etiquette and manners, it's becoming a "lost art".  When they go to dinner their children children get out of control, thus creating an unhappy environment for anyone going out for a nice dinner.  It's a joy to see families in public places with well-behaved children, but the contrary when children are kicking, screaming or crying because they can't have what they want.  We have four grown children and 9 grandchildren and we took our roles as parents very seriously. When we took our children out to dinner or public places, we tried to use those times as "teachable moments"...teaching them how to be respectful and considerate of others, to say "please" and "thank you", and to learn how to put into practice their best table manners.  I don't like the idea of "adult only" restaurants but can certainly understand why it's being done.  We can't change the world, but parents can change the way they parent.  I have to say when I take my grandchildren out to a restaurant and we witness other children who are unruly, we use them as an example of "what not to do!"  Personally, I would not patronize a restaurant that does not welcome children. 
Aug 4, 2011 2:36 PM Guest Deborah B.  says:

I adore children and have three grown ones of my own, along with two grandchildren.  I raised my children to behave with courtesy and manners in public and am in the process of teaching my grandchildren; they are not taught this at home, so it's an ongoing dilemma.  I believe that children should be allowed in places of businesses, UNTIL their parents show that they have no intention of controlling their behavior.  I leave department stores, I complain in restaurants when no one pays attention to a consistently screaming child, and I even sometimes comment (lovingly) to parents who are ignoring their children.  America has become such a place of "tolerance," (and I use the term loosely) that anything goes.

     On an airplane, unfortunately, you cannot ask a parent to leave if they are not mindful of a child/children, so that's a tough one.  However, on land, it's sad that some very good parents and children must pay the price for those others.  Having "child free hours" does at least offer a time when the elderly and those who don't or cannot deal with noisy and misbehaving children can shop without being interrupted.  Yet, they're missing out on the love and joy children also bring.

     This is yet another subject that the Adversary has distorted; it is another case of his causing confusion and dissention among families and within the church, even.  I say we must PRAY.

Aug 4, 2011 12:49 PM Guest Kristin  says:
I suppose we should not be surprised when we live in a country that does not consider the unborn, children or the elderly to be of any value to society.  How much they miss!  Jesus spoke on the importance of little children.  "And they were bringing children to him that he might touch them and the disciples rebuked them.  But when Jesus saw it, he was indignant and said to them, 'Let the little children come to me; do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God.  Truly, I say to you whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.'  And he took them in his arms and blessed them, laying his hands on them."  We aren't talking about banning animals here, but children (which might I add, we were all one once).  If I have to endure a meal or airplane ride with an abnoxious adult I just have to deal with it.  I am not excusing children the misbehave, but just like adults they have their good days and their bad days.  I have four children of my own who I do my best to teach them how to behave appropriately in all these different locations.  I don't agree with what these airlines, grocery stores, or restaurants are doing and I will choose not to patron them with or without my children.
Aug 4, 2011 2:46 PM Guest Sherrie  says:
I dearly love children and love to interact with them in stores. I have seen enough of children not being corrected or disciplined to have an understanding for this tendency. People live with the fear of being reported for getting "physical" with their children while out in public. I think the children can pick up on this and make a situation even worse. Well known Dr.s have put the word out against spanking. They do not agree with what our LORD  has taught us in Proverbs. DO NOT be afraid of using the rod as PART of your training your child. Ours are grown now and have said we didn't spank enough. Imagine that...
Aug 4, 2011 12:53 PM Guest LW  says:
I agree with the child free restaurant issue but it depends on the restaurant. I would expect the more high dollar restaurants or those with a more romantic atmosphere to be selective ... I have gone to a few restaurants to only have kids scream and the parents totally ignore them. I am sorry... I am at the restaurant to relax and enjoy a good conversation with my spouse and family. NOT to leave the place with a splitting headache! I also agree about child free movies... I went to go see a movie and by the time I drop the money for 2 tickets, a bag of popcorn, 2 drinks and a bag candy... I expected a relaxing time where I could get lost in the movie... but no a family brought an infant to a loud movie and it screamed through the entire time. The person never took the child out... I think that is totally disrespectful to all the people who also spent their hard money to come enjoy a couple of hours of entertainment to only have it ruined by one person. I get kids being at a cartoon or a made for kid movie but COME ON why bring a baby to movie you KNOW is going to loud with lots of explosions. Use some common sense! Don't get me wrong... kids are fine, I just can't stand Parents who don't Parent their children in public places. It ruins the experience for everyone. Perhaps the growing trend to intolerance of children is that people are fed up with parents that let their children parent the parent...so that turns them off of ever wanting children of their own or they can't have kids so they resent others that do and don't realize what a treasure they have.
Aug 4, 2011 12:55 PM Guest Kristin  says in response to Julie:
I just wanted to say I appreciated what you said about children very much and agree 100%!
Aug 4, 2011 12:56 PM Guest Donna  says:

I have 3 children and 5 grandchildren and love them more than life. I also have taught S.S. at the primary age, am a jr. high  teacher presently, and  serve in the nursery of our church. I understand the value God places on the family. However,, today parents are not correcting their children at home or in public and they are loud and act out terribly . I really don't think the decision was anti children, it was just anti poor parenting. As much as my husband and I adore children and are blessed by them. we are so annoyed going out for a nice evening and having our evening ruined by children who are out of control...Truly our society has abused children and it grieves me. I really think that restaurant owners are just trying to avoid all of the chaos out of control children bring...It's not the child, it is the oblivious parent!

Aug 4, 2011 12:59 PM Guest Sarah  says in response to jill:

Jill,

I am so sorry to hear how terribly you were treated in church. I too have been to child unfriendly churches. Please don't give up though, not all churches are alike. I pray you will find a church where you can receive as well as give Christ's love.

Aug 4, 2011 4:15 PM Guest Molly Brown  says:

The need for eateries that ban children speaks of the selfishness of some parents. When my son was young I rarely took him out to eat because of unpredictable behavior. You should not spoil a meal, funeral or wedding (all of which I've witnessed)  because you don't have enough courtesy to take a child out of such a setting. Solutions come from the top down...Always!

Aug 4, 2011 1:23 PM Guest Gerry  says:
It is about time that those who prefer to eat in child-free environments have that choice.  One consequence may be that people whose children are banned from certain establishments may wake up and take charge of their children.  In the end, economics will decide.
Aug 4, 2011 4:12 PM Guest Rosalie B.  says:
More and more of the baby boomers are retiring and there aren't many places where they can go to just eat in a relaxed atmosphere and enjoy conversations with other couples (or for that matter anywhere to go), so there is a need for some childfree restaurants and other childfree shopping places.  It is not that they dislike children (in fact, many of them are doing more babysitting and raising of grandchildren than ever), but there are times and places needed without them.  With bad knees and hips at earlier ages, as well as, debilitating arthritis, they no longer have the agility to dodge unattended children running wild and reckless, especially in grocery stores.  There are a lot of good parents and children; however, there are also many children left to raise themselves because somehow the common sense of the parents seems to have escaped.  There is room in this world for all types of enterprizes.  With the aging population seemingly to be the ones with a little extra to spend this days, businesses will need to start using creative ways of capturing a little of those funds and at the same time giving them much needed places to go and things to do.  Children are a 'Blessing', but I'm not so sure that this world, especially the U.S., is much of a blessing to children today.  We need God more than ever, yet we have rebelled even further.
Aug 4, 2011 4:03 PM Guest Deanna  says:

While I understand many of the sentiments posted here, I must add and agree that manners and consideration of others are not major values taught lately.  I love my children, but if they are disruptive, we remove them.  It is unfortunate that our nation's children are not being raised right anymore.  This is a symptom of a greater issue.

Aug 4, 2011 1:34 PM Guest Laura  says:
In a perfect world, we would not have to have this discussion, but because the society is training children to be selfish and to not obey authority, we have created a difficult situation.  I personally would love to have a place to go where I do not have to listen to children behaving badly. On the occasions where my husband and I go out to eat, I would like to be able to pay attention to him alone, instead of being annoyed and distracted by children's antics or screaming babies. I am one of 9 children, and we were never allowed to misbehave in public. There were consequences for doing so, and they were enforced. I wish that all parents would discipline their children well, but until then, I welcome a dinner in peace.
Aug 4, 2011 1:38 PM Guest Laura  says in response to Roger:
Excellent point
Aug 4, 2011 1:47 PM Guest Suzette  says:

I agree - children are a gift from God. When our kids were little we did take them many places not normally attended by small children but we knew they were well behaved and, if they started to be at all disruptive, we were out of there. I think the problem that I see way too much of these days are kids that are out of control. Was at a restaurant a while back and the kids were crawling out of their chairs, climbing on the table, crying and yelling and . . . . the parents were doing . . . . nothing. When someone asked them parents nicely to control their kids, the parents became beligerant. I know this situtation use to be the exception; of late, it seems to be becoming the rule. We need to require all parents to listen to Focus on the Family :-) then we could all go back to enjoying family outings! But since that isn't likely to happen any time soon, I can totally understand business owners attempting to maintain some sanity on their premises. It's a statement on a society going "Godless" - so very sad.

Aug 4, 2011 1:47 PM Guest Cyndy  says:
I do and don't agree with the restaurant. Appears people are not discipling their children, so maybe they should ban them! Sorry, but spare the rod, spoil the child....we need to let our children know that sometimes their behavior is not to be tolerated. A simple walk outside to let them know what is expected...children need to learn what is good behavior.  As for the theater, I would never attempt to watch a movie at home while the youngest kids are still up, so why take them to a theater. If it's a childrens show, that would be understandable. And I also somewhat agree with flying...have you ever been kicked in the back of your seat from Chicago to Munich...not fun! One thing I have learned through the years though...you CANNOT tell someone else how to raise their children:)
Aug 4, 2011 2:04 PM Guest Edward  says:

Praise the Lord for venues that are child free!  Can I get an Amen?  I believe they are a welcome change, and as a business consultant and auditor with numerous years experience I see it as a smart and necessary business move for many venues.  Personally, I don't think that this trend is society showing a lack of tolerence towards children, but more of a frustration with parents/guardians of children who don't demonstrate appropriate social skills.

 

I am a father of 8, and a grandfather of soon to be 14, so I have had some experience with little ones and public places.  When one our children were acting up, my wife or I would promptly remove the child to an appropriate location (the car, outside, the bathroom, etc.) until the behavior changed.  We tried our very best not to disturb the patrons near us to the best of our ability.  I see this as appropriate social etiquette.  Since certain grown-ups don't seem to understand this concept, and they think their screaming kid is so cute, again I see child free venues as a welcome change.

 

A final comment; the business practice of allowing or not allowing distrubing patrons can go both ways.  There is a movie theater in our area that has started having "Sensory Sensitive Showings" for children with autism.  At these showing the volume is turned down, the lights are a little brighter, and patrons understand going in that other patrons may talk during the movie.  Can I get another Amen for a business that is thinking outside the box and caring about meeting the needs for this portion of our population.  I hope it works out best for them and the clientel they wish to serve.

Aug 4, 2011 2:05 PM Guest Cimmaron  says:
As a volunteer at a crisis pregnancy center, and grandmother, I am VERY enthusiastic about youngsters.  This said, I've also watched a growing trend in young families.  Some folks simply do not make any attempt whatsoever to control their youngsters...no matter how distruptive or destructive their behavior becomes, no matter the time and place.  This is an increasing a challenge, even in places of Worship.  Respect and civility seem quickly becoming 'things of the past."  I'm sorry to sound so gruff, but I do think we've probably seen this trend increasing, along with other 'signs of the times."  Do I believe child-free hours should be permitted?  Well, should an Organization be Sued for attempting to intervene when a child is permitted by parents to create dangerous, or excessively annoining environments?  Children are not our rulers.  If childish behavior is beyond reasonable limits...and there is no other legal method for protection....what other choices do these Organizations have?  I've seen it folks...if you haven't, you will.
Aug 4, 2011 2:06 PM Guest Robin  says in response to Paul:

Unfortunately, like Deb says, a lot of children are not being parented well and that might be part of the problem.  However, for me, I find it very ironic that this has come to the forefront whereas I am continually amazed how many people bring their dogs into stores...even grocery stores.  When I was a youngster, that was never tolerated.  Sometimes, it seems that dogs are being tolerated more than kids are.  Though, I totally agree it would be nice to be in "kid-free" movies and restaurants.

Aug 4, 2011 2:08 PM Guest Catherine  says:

Before going anywhere (the store, resaurant) I used to talk to my children (now in their 20's) about behavior before leaving the house, and then again before entering the establishment.  I followed through with consequences of misbehavior, leaving if I had to.

Ultimately, I could go anywhere with three small children and I knew they would behave politely.

 

The problem nowadays, is that parents have not taught their children manners, and thus their unruly behavior in public is truely distressing.  It is so common now, that I sympathize with restaurants forbidding children.

Aug 4, 2011 2:09 PM Guest Monica  says:

A lot of wonderful posts already! I agree with much of what as been said.

I am a childless 40 something and not by choice. I was not able to have children. As a childless adult, I do more than tolerate children, I adore them. I love to see and hear them in public. But there is a limit to how much I want to hear! I have plenty of patience and sympathy for a screaming baby on a plane, not so much in a nice restaurant. Babies on a plane have no where to go, a screaming baby in a nice restaurant can be taken out by the parent. We live in LA and unfortunately there are many parents who not only let the screaming go on, but let their children run around in a restaurant. The management won't (or can't) do anything. Just like people talking loudly on a cell phone at the dinner table, the extra noise is not appreciated when you want a nice night out. I think restaurant owners should have a right to decide who their customers are. I don't really see people tolerating children less, I see parents choosing not to parent. You can usually tell the difference between a kid who is having a meltdown and a kid who really never behaves! Bravo to all you wonderful parents out there - and I know many!

Aug 4, 2011 2:22 PM Guest Janette  says:

I do not think that these new policies are necessarily a reflection of an anti-child attitude.  My husband and I have 3 young children.  On the rare occasion we go on a date alone to a nice place, we would not want to be surrounded by loud, fussy children.  When you consider how expensive a first-class ticket is for flying, I can't say that I blame airlines for such a policy in first-class.  Since families represent a large demographic for businesses I don't see this as becoming an overwhelming trend--the marketplace will, more often than not, want the business of families and not hinder them.  There are even those business who cater to such a demographic.  I have never been to a Hot Mama clothing store, but I understand that they provide sales consultants who will hold your baby or entertain your kids while also helping you make selections.  What I think is going on here is a reaction to poor judgment of some families who perhaps don't consider where they take their children and when, and then perhaps do not handle things well when they go bad in public.  It is also likely the result of a permissive culture that frowns on parents disciplining their children, but yet expects these children to somehow respect authority and be well behaved.

 

Also, on a slightly different note, America is considered to be very child friendly, especially when compared to Europe.  I appreciate that our birth-rate has been ticking down for the past few decades.  However, I question if that is the result of attitude or perhaps more economic variables that cause young people to delay having children and then facing infertility problems after waiting too long.  There actually was a baby boomlet that was widely written about in 2006.  As you would expect, it has ticked down a bit the last 5 years as our country has faced high unemployment and various economic issues.  My own expereince is that families who have children tend to have more than what I recall from growing up in the 70s/80s, but that is just my own perception and may not be reflected in the data.  

Aug 4, 2011 2:30 PM Guest Cheri  says:
WOW! So many great comments I agree with.  From parents needing to parent, enjoying a kid free evening out, to respecting the rights of an establishment to run their business as they see fit (of course within the law). My greatest concern would be that the government would get involved dictating "the rules" thereby taking away more of our precious freedoms.  Let the free market work and the patrons will let the establishments know if they like the idea or not.  BTW - my husband and I have 6 kids, homeschooled and have 6 grandkids with more to come.  Love it!
Aug 4, 2011 2:33 PM Guest Linda  says:
There are certainly a lot of things to factor into a decision whether to allow children into restaurants or not.  The first, and primary in my thinking, is whether the child can be controlled by the parents or whether the parents WILL control their child's behavior. I don't feel that a restaurant is the place to go if you have not taught your child to behave properly, which means to sit in their seat and maintain a normal level of chatter/noise.  A restaurant should be a place where people should be able to expect a certain level of non-activity; where they can expect to be able to visit comfortably and share a normal conversation with those whom they have met for a meal.  If parents can't ensure this atmosphere with their children in tow, then they should keep them home until they can.  It took one good spanking in a restaurant restroom with my grandson for him to KNOW that Nana would not tolerate disobedience or the disrespect of others around us.  He has been perfect when eating out ever since.  It is a fact, however, that some children are not so easily taught/controlled and those are the ones who should be kept home until they can be taught proper conduct for eating out, perhaps by having others over for dinner in their home as training sessions or by having very short outings to fast food restaurants.
Aug 4, 2011 2:34 PM Guest Me  says:
There is nothing more annoying than finally being able to afford a dinner out or a movie at an actually theater and having either a drunk or crying, screaming children near by. If parents would just take them out and calm them down or teach them to behave in the first place, it would be much nicer for everyone...including the parents. If you know you have a child that acts up every time you take them somewhere, please take them to a children's movie or a kiddy restaurant. It's not that hard.
Aug 4, 2011 4:16 PM Guest Me  says in response to keith:
What are you talking about??? What does teaching your children to behave have to do with Secular Humanism???
Aug 4, 2011 2:40 PM Guest Arlys  says:

There are 2 things at play here:  1.  People simply do not want to be bothered by children--this is a sad commentary on the American "me first" culture.

2.  There are wonderful children who happen to cry when eating out; there are children who are spoiled rotten and cry when they want their way.  In both cases parents need to take into account they are not in their own dining room and try to manage their "child/children".

I'm a grandmother and would never want restaurants to ban children, they are God's gift for tomorrow.

Aug 4, 2011 2:40 PM Guest Me  says in response to Sharon R:

Not everyone has a Biblical vision for their life. Are bussiness owners now supposed to cater to your religion, too?

Aug 4, 2011 2:43 PM Guest Allyson, experienced server  says:

I think that childless restaurants/shopping hours/etc are GREAT! There are several reasons for this:

 

1) As an adult, I should be able to choose to go to a restaurant in which I will be guaranteed a quiet enjoyable dinner.

 

2) As a server, kids are my worst nightmare. I DETEST serving them. They cost less, are more demanding and require large amounts of cleanup, all equating to a smaller tip from more effort. Additionally, as a child, my parents refused to take us to a sit down restaurant until we could behave ourselves and actually enjoy the meal they were paying for. There are restaurants that children are encouraged to come to, run around and scream in, and they cost far less to parents than the Italian Restaurant I serve at. Why on earth would you bring your kids to a restaurant that costs $6-$8 per child, when they won't appreciate the quality of the food as being any higher than that of McDonalds. Do us both a favor- get a babysitter if it's date night.

 

3) I'm a firm believer that children shouldn't be allowed in stores from about November 15th to January 15th. They are inevitably ill-behaved and a general nuisance to the many people rushing around trying to just get in and out and on as fast as possible. I don't need to be standing in line at Target behind you and your three children all tugging on your arm screaming, crying and kicking, "but I want it NOWWW."

 

Contrary to what it may appear here, I don't, in fact, dislike children. They do offer a lot of joy and happiness, but there are situations and times when adults should be able to be in the quiet company of other adults. We already can't choose housing based on our preferences for peace and quiet(families are a protected class under real estate law), we should at least be able to escape for a couple hours somewhere...

Aug 4, 2011 4:14 PM Guest Josephine  says:
What troubles me is the growing acceptance of banning children , while at the same time I hear argument for allowing pets. Even among coworkers and in public places it seems people are more comfortable discussing their pets than their children. Please do not interpret this as my not liking animals, I am just saying if the argument stands as they are at times uncontrollable then what business do people have considering bringing in animals. (not to mention the food safety issures) There is a shift in our culture and I do believe it is not in the favor of children.
Aug 4, 2011 3:05 PM Guest Phyllis  says:
I believe one of the big problems that is happening and that I see is a real lack of parental discipline of their children. Sure there are times that children can and do act up, that some have problems and disabilities but, the real issue is parents not willing to discipline their children or they believe the lie that you never restrict  the childs creativity no matter what the child is doing. Children are not taught manners today or social behavior, they are just left to do their own thing. My husband and I see this more than not when we go  to a restraunt, store or anywhere else. The child has more rights and comes first before adults. My husband and I were at a restraunt where a child was right behind my husband who kept jumping up and down on the booth seat and kept screaming near my husbands ear. The parents just laughed at the child and thought it was cute! My husband asked the parents to please quiet their child so he could eat and that the screaming was hurting his ear. The parent turned on my husband and started yelling at him, calling him names and causing a scene. So, yes, it is not a totally bad idea to limit children at different times and places since parents will not discipline their children. When my sons were small and carried on at a restraunt,  we got up and left if they would not behave. It was understood back then that that was the proper thing to do. We taught our sons manners and what was ok and what wasn't ok when we were out in public and that if they acted up we were going to leave. That was in the 70's and it should be the same today but it is not, so what are we to do about it?
Aug 4, 2011 3:22 PM Guest Diane  says:
Perhaps there is a growing intolerance to children in our society, but if so, it is not without reasons. Yes, it would be wonderful if all American families raised their children in a Biblical, disciplined manner, as I imagine many of Focus on the Family listeners do, but with permissiveness so prevalent today, well-behaved children seem to be the exception, not the norm. It is not intolerance to children, but rather to excessive noise which troubles me. I truly do love children--I'm a parent, grandparent, teacher, and pastor's wife--but at age 62, I literally find it difficult to properly digest my food in a restaurant with unruly childen nearby. I sit there cringing! It is possible to choose restaurants carefully; some do not appeal to families with children. Please understand that it is not children themselves, but rather undisiplined behavior which causes seniors to reach for the Tums and Tylenol.
Aug 4, 2011 4:13 PM Guest Nancy  says:
This is sad to say the least! I hope other restaurants do signs that say "Children Welcome here!" If my child is not welcome, then I am not welcome! I'll take my business elsewhere! Suffer the little children to come to Me! If children cry they just may be hungry when they come in...and they may be tired because they've been in day care, parents have worked all day, give them a break! I grew up in a time when families didn't eat out and I was an adult when I first went into one! We ate at home! When Daddy came home from work, that's when it was dinner time! We had a home made hot lunch at school, no fast food then! Frankly, I think we ate better back then! Too much processed food even in some restaurants! Maybe it's the hour that children are brought into the place of business! So I can understand if it's a late hour when children should be in bed, but we travel a lot these days too! We are so mobile these days! Maybe someone wants to start a restaurant that caters to just families, like "Food 'R US!"
Aug 4, 2011 3:39 PM Guest Tracey  says in response to Monica:
It's truly a shame that businesses are finding it necessary to refuse to admit children; however,  they have good reason for their actions.  My husband & I have 2 kids (11 & 15) & have always taken them everywhere.  We have also been willing to get up & leave or temporarily remove our kids if they caused any problems.   Unfortunately, THIS IS NOT THE CASE WITH MOST PARENTS.  It seems that most are unwilling to admit their kids aren't perfect or that their behavior is unacceptable.  Bottom line:  total disregard for everyone around them.  Many times, my kids have sat in a restaurant & noted that they just can't believe the parents at the next table are allowing their kids to act so badly:  "We'd get in trouble if we did that!"  Nobody is perfect, but kids require training, because they are future adults.  What kind of adults are these kids going to be?  I agree wholeheartedly with Monica.
Aug 4, 2011 3:47 PM Guest Kathy  says:

Children ARE a blessing from the Lord. If we rear them as GOD intended us to. Proverbs speaks of the child left to himself. The child who gives his mother rest. The child who is a glory to his grandparents.

 

I don't have a passionate opinion either way really.

 

I tend to not be so bothered by public meltdowns -- I have experienced them and its embarassing...my own experience not as bad as some I've seen...but I think parents are ill equipped to handle things these days --they have bought the lie that sparing the rod is helping their kids rather than hurting them in the long run. They are sold on time outs and tolerance and giving the choices --they have been duped and I think this is a result of those very ideas. Seems to me in times past when parents were 'allowed' to discipline their children children behaved more respectfully...they seemed to fall in line a lot easier. However, today, we tell the parents you'll break their will, you'll hurt who they are and stunt their individuality while at the same time the same people wonder why parents can't control their kids and then throw out these rules to make things more comfortable --out of sight out of mind.

 

But if we as parents will look to the BIBLE, seeking God's wisdom and guidance in discipline we will find a far better way and as I mentioned we will find rest. Training children starts early on. its not something that just happens. Children aren't born GOOD. We have to TRAIN them, teach them in the way they should go. It is our responsibility as parents. Who are we going to fear God or man? Are we going to let fear govern how were discipline? Some new age movement? No, we have to take a stand. We have to follow God.

 

Yes, I am aware there are parents that are abusive all in the name of 'sparing the rod spoiling the child'.  I am not talking about that. I am talking about seeking GOD, reading His Word letting HIM lead us in how we discipline, train and rear our children. Look at His Son...He turned out to be One of a kind :)  so I'm pretty sure He knows how to do it and He can show us if we will only listen.

Aug 4, 2011 3:48 PM Guest Carol  says:

I have seen kids behave well and not so well at restaurants and I can understand it to a degree. I believe it comes down to the parents and how some totally disregard their children's bad behavior and think it's ok for their kids to be running around and being disrespectful of others.  We have 2 daughters now 12 and 10 and we took them out to restaurants with us since they were babies and have taught them how to act in a restaurant.  If they aren't allowed to go, how will they ever learn how to act.  think it comes down to the parents having control over their children and behavior.  I'd be disappointed if any of our favorite restaurants put that policy into effect.  I'd let them know and probably wouldn't go as often so they wouldn't get as much of our business.........

Aug 4, 2011 3:51 PM Guest Marilyn C  says:
There's a time and place for each one of us.  My husband and I always hired a baby sitter when we dined out. The children were not ready to dine out and we needed the time for us.  There are entirely too many nonparented children in public now.  I would have been horrified to have a child throw a tantrum in public.  We just did not allow it.  At home the child was sent to bed after discusiing the situtation with the child. Even today, dining out is a very special occasion for us and we do not appreciate encountering out of control children there or anywhere in public.  And that is why the parents get stared at.  The parents are supposed to be in charge.  Tantrums show they definitely are not and they should be embarrassed. Just one viewing of one of the Nanny tv programs tells us the state of so many families today.  We love children too, but everyone should know how to behave in public.
Aug 4, 2011 3:57 PM Guest Marilyn C  says:
I think it's a great idea!  We've had many dinners out spoiled by noisy children.  Their parents pretend to be clueless.  We love children, but there are places they just don't belong.    Take them to a children's restaurant, or get a baby sitter.
Aug 4, 2011 4:01 PM Guest Ed M.  says:
This is a very interesting and thought provoking question.  Putting aside the questionable legality to banning individuals from businesses using age, the issue here is how modern U.S. society is raising children.  An article a couple of weeks ago in the Orange County Register polled over 500 human resource professionals and business leaders asking them to rate recent college graduates.  The overwhelming feeling was that new grads were 'unprofessional'.  The issues that bugged them the most were:  Appearance, body piercings/tattoos, attitude, rudeness, poor grammar and communication skills, and a sense of entitlement.  Society needs to turn back to basic Judeo-Christian teaching and away from the new age live and let live attitudes.
Aug 4, 2011 4:07 PM Guest Mom of 2 GM  says:
Well everyone has his or her options.  I have two of my own children age 11 and 13.  You talk about training up a child in the way they should go.  My two have been in church on Sunday morning, Sunday night and Weds. night sense they were born.. ..Well we have worked really hard to train them to do the right thing and even used the belt more then I want to admit. Spare the rod spoil the child. Ya, Right!!!  My 11yr. Son still is my problem child in public.  We have tried everything and I have left a restaurant, a grocery store and even church because my child was out of control.  He was born with a sin nature and well all kids aren’t taught to be bad that is their nature.  So good or bad everyone has a right to want a free child environment of their own children and even other people’s children.  I know I sure enjoy a night out with my husband with out children so I can stay sane.  The bigger question is what are we doing to promote the next generation?  If we have no children who is going to take care of us when we are old and who is going to run our companies, our country and most important who is going to share the good news of our Lord and Savior to a lost world if we don’t allow children to be part of it.  I love my children and they are a blessing but some days are better then others and by the grace of God I am still here and so are my children.
Aug 4, 2011 4:22 PM Guest Maelisa  says:
Children are children and need to be taught properly. If a business wants to be "child-free" it is their right. However I will not be using such places due to the fact my two children go everywhere with me. As for date nights with my husband we usually go out later at night and to someplace that doesn't have a lot of families anyway. I do think though that instead of making someplace "child-free" they should implement policies such as the "Failure to Parent Policy". If your child is disturbing the other guests or customers the parents are to be asked to leave. Not the children. Of course this is after a warning to the parents "If you do not keep your children controlled and contained then we will have to ask you (the parents) to leave. By correcting the parent maybe they will be inclined to correct their children. If that doesn't work then ask them to leave. Chances are they won't return again because the establishment was "so rude". Why does everything have to be black or white? Whatever happened to compromise?
Aug 4, 2011 4:23 PM Guest Sheri  says in response to Susan:
I agree with Susan.  If the chilldren are well-trained, they should be welcome.  I'm working on polite, but firm wording.  There should also be some tolerance of small noises.  For my son's wedding, I had friends take care of my smaller children for the reception so we could properly mingle.  It was an outside wedding and reception.  My children were flight risks.  So, both sides need some work: the parents need to train their children and others should be able to overlook the little stuff.
Aug 4, 2011 4:24 PM Guest Lynne  says:
When my children were growing up we ate at home.  Adults that go out to eat are tired, hungry and they want to relax.  They are paying customers and they should not have to put up with screaming kids nearby. It is a terrible disruption and parents should not allow their children to disturb other patrons in restaurants.  Also at buffets, kids grab food, make a mess and spread germs on the buffet.  I support 100% restaurants banning children.  If parents want to take their children "out" to eat they should to go McDonalds or Chucky Cheese or a "kid friendly" place.  Friendlies has ice cream, crayons and special sundaes for kids.  But do not take them to fine dining places or quiet restaurants where adults deserve to relax.
Aug 4, 2011 4:41 PM Guest Sidney  says:

I am the mother of six boys and hate to hear about the "kid-free" trend.  Although we tried to maintain peace and quiet while at a restaurant, we had many incidences of someone not happy with the situation.  If one persisted and truly didn't want to obey, we took him away from the table so not to disrupt everyone.  It wasn't always a pleasant experience dining out with our group, but we did use it to reinforce good behavior and manners.  Now that several of my boys have boys of their own, we are experiencing some of the same responses in our grandchildren.  Parents need to take responsibility for training up their kids, even if it is when they are out in public.  Parents also need to discern if where they take their kids is appropriate for the ages of their children.  There are some places and events where kids need to stay at home.  On the flip side, we have had strangers comment on the good behavior of our boys while dining out when we (mom and dad) thought they were being disruptive!  We were greatly encouraged by those comments!  It also prompts me to encourage other parents dining out with their children. Responsible parents can raise up responsible children...but there may be some disruptive moments along the way!

Aug 4, 2011 4:45 PM Guest Lori  says:
I am a grandmother of 4 and love them dearly.  However, there are times I would like a special evening out with my husband.  Unruly, cranky children around us can really be annoying.  Not saying my grandchildren haven't caused the same situation for others; they have.  But I think making some times at some places of entertainment for 'adults only' is actually a good idea.
Aug 4, 2011 4:46 PM Guest Maria  says:
A few weeks ago we attended a movie on a friday evening.  Front and center sat a couple with a newborn.  The problem wasn't the child but the parents.  Within the first hour of the movie they must have gotten up at least six times. Walking in front of and blocking people's view.  They finally left and I believe we were all relieved that they finally got the clue that it was a bad idea for them to be there.  I've lost count of the times children are screaming in church and the parents are again clueless until the usher comes and asks them nicely to take care of their child.  This "child free" attitude is not about the children.  We expect that behavior from them.  It's the parents who conveniently forget that they are parents 24/7.   If you know your child will scream in a restaurant, church, store; then pack some entertainment and snacks or be prepared to walk out.  That is the job of a parent.  My child is grown but many a time I had to leave a store or walk out of a restaurant.  That's what we signed up for.
Aug 4, 2011 4:59 PM Guest Linda  says:

I am now a grandmother of 13 and I love each one of them dearly, but a child out of control is not pleasant to be around. Just yesterday while shopping at Walmart, a child in a cart was screaming and crying over and over, "I want to go to the van!" Mom just let her scream and kept shopping. It could be heard all over the store. Finally the father showed up and must have taken the child out. Ah, the peace was so nice!

When we were raising our 3 sons (and we had 3 under the age of 2 1/2 yrs), we would take them out of the store, church, etc., if they were acting up and correct them. Today, it seems many parents just look at their children as if to say, "I don't know what to do", or "I don't care what you do." Parents need help. There is much they can do if they will take the initiative and put all who are in the immediate area out of their misery. A screaming child is not a necessity, but is preventable if parents will take control and give the correction and training needed. then child-free zones would not even be talked about.

Aug 4, 2011 5:01 PM Guest Diane  says:
I don't believe any of this has anything to do with intolerance of children.  I think the problem is intolerance of parents who believe they don't need to be in charge of their children.  I love kids but find myself increasingly intolerant of poor parenting.  Some people think their kids are "cute" doing about anything.  They won't be reading these things, however, because most are oblivious to any problem with themselves or their children.
Aug 4, 2011 5:03 PM Guest Stacy  says:

I can see where they are coming from.  I have 3 kids, but sometimes at resturants and other public places, I have seen someones "little darling" throwing such a fit and causing such a disturbance, that I wish someone would either spank the kid, or ask the parent to leave until the kid is under control.

 

We do eat out with our kids, but choose "family style" resturants.  I think that it gives them a chance to learn how to behave and restrain themselves in publc settings.  It is up to the business owner what style of resturant they choose to have.  If you don't like it, go somewhere else.  I just hope it does not become like the smoking ban, LOL.  If you want to go to a resturant where there is smoking, then you should be able to go, if not, then go some place else.  It is call AMERICA!!  Let us not lose that fredom!!!

Aug 4, 2011 5:05 PM Guest cathy  says:
My only child is a teenager now, and it is amazing how fast we forget what it was like when our big kids were small and prone to "pitching a fit" in public.  I know that when my daughter was little, I was a bit afraid to do any discipline in public because some do-gooder would report me for child abuse if I gave her a well-earned spank on the butt.  So, as a result, she occasionally tried it out in the middle of the grocery store.  She would throw a tantrum because I would not buy her chocolate cereal or something like that.  And I would try to get her to stop, but with no follow thru (in the form of a spank), she quickly learned that in public was the only place that she could get away with behavior like that.  It is very difficult to just leave your grocery cart and walk out of the store with your screaming kid, and equally difficult to attempt to discipline them after so much time has gone by.  They are too young for delayed discipline.  All that to say that I can see both sides of the issue.  Yes, I love children.  Yes, I can empathize with a parent of a child throwing a tantrum.  And, yes, I can understand people not wanting their dinner out to be spoiled by a screaming child at the next table.  It is a touchy subject to say the least.
Aug 4, 2011 5:29 PM Guest Patricia  says:

In the area we ggew up in, there were few restaurants  of ANY kind and definitely none dedicated  to children....Mom stayed home and cooked our meal because that's all we could afford.  It was an occasional treat to go to a DINER for a burger (or fish sticks, if Mom made us order that) and there was no "messing around" with siblings and no "fussing" (the " LOOK" was all we would needed from either parnet  to COOL IT) we were happy just to be doing something different...

 

However, things have changed and.....

As a empty-nester, We  can FINALLY afford and appreciate going to a fine dining restaurant and hoping to spend a quiet time with family and friends. and  not to be accosted by unruly children, who are ignored by parents seemingly deaf to the disturbance.  Ii is commendable to try to train up the child in manners for the future, but at a certain age, FAMILY FRIENDLY restaurants should be the place to go with small children....the food is delivered faster and there are more distractions there to keep them busy.   We expect to encounter some issues in establishments .that are KID FRIENDLY and if the going gets too "rough" because of ignorant parents, ,we either ask for a different table or leave. (both of which we have had to do).  I often think , the parents are the ones who WANT this experience with a fine meal and a glass of wine, but the kids really are not READY for it!

 

I do remember, however, going to a fine restaurant and the woman at the next table mentioned several times to her daughter and friend that they needed to use their "indoor voices".(obviously training her child in manners and etiquette - something that is missing in today's arena)...and that IF they could not, then they would be have to leave and never come to a "nice" restaurant for a LongTIME!  Kudos to that parent!  And we told her so when we were leaving after a pleasant dining experience for all. 

 

ADULT ONLY FLIGHTS: A friend of mine had orange juice poured on her by a toddler on a flight from NY to London and had to endure the entire long flight in an icky, stickly mess.   The mother of the child was oblivious and did not even offer an apology!  I guess we come back to parental responsibility or lack of it!

 

So, yes, I would say that ADULTS ONLY has its place. and in a perfect world, this would NOT even been considered..And,in all fairness to God's littlest blessed creations, you have to admit: NOTHING in any restaurant is noiser that a group  of men or women who have had too much to drink no matter how "fine" the establishment!

Aug 4, 2011 5:27 PM Guest Jocelyn  says in response to Susan:

I agree with Susan. I actually agree with everyone so far even though there are differing opinions. Children are a blessing - we have 3 and 4 grandchildren. We took our kids to kid friendly restaurants but even there we trained them in how to behave in public. They were normal children and so we did have issues from time to time - we spoke to them and told them their behavior was unacceptable and would disturb others around them and if they didn't stop we took them out so it would not bother others. Too many parents don't spend enough time with their kids, feel guilty and worn out and excuse the bad behavior.

 

I try to encourage parents when I see they have well behaved kids and let them know it didn't go unnoticed.

Aug 4, 2011 5:32 PM Guest Tom  says:

We had three children and now have 13 grandkids.  My wife and I are at an age where we can and do eat out quite a bit. We were at a restaurant just the other night and there was a screaming child at a nearby table.  My immediate thought was that 1) the parents have not trained the child to behave properly in public and 2) they therefore should not be taken them out until they can. That may sound a little harsh but we trained out children and there were consequences for misbehaving.  The bible is very clear on "training" up children.  But we see a tremendous lack in this area even among Christian parents.  On the other hand, however, there is a move in our society to break up the family unit.  To this extent I vehemently oppose these kinds of "rules" which would separate children and parents.  It is not healthy for the long term and can lead to some very negative consequences for our society. 

Aug 4, 2011 5:52 PM Guest Jodie  says:

I am a mother of 2 boys.  The youngest is a wild child at times, but I discipline him when needed.  As I have read the comments above everyone mentioned children's behaviors, but nothing relating to age.

 

BUT I see this as a form of age discrimination.  If resturants, stores, etc banned people over 65 there would be an uproar, but because there are fewer families with children no one seems to be willing to say something.  I know that screaming children can ruin an evening but so can people talking constantly on their phone, texting, playing music, etc.  Also, as stated earlier families with children spend money, so someone will open or start businesses that cater to families & children.

Aug 4, 2011 5:52 PM Guest Lynda  says:
I am not surprised that children are the focus.  They are the focus for all the other spiritual attacks, like movies of Harry Potter, and video games, etc.  Children are a JOY and a blessing!!!!  Even though my children are grown, if I know of a place that forbids children, I would not go there even if it was the only place in town.  I say brush the dirt off your shoes as you leave and pray for the owners.
Aug 4, 2011 5:58 PM Guest Anne  says:
I am a mom of two boys.  I love and adore them and my husband and my self LOVE spending time with them and taking them out to child appropriate restaurants.  We also LOVE to go out with out them just the two of us for some quiet romantic time together.  I wish parents would take in to consideration( before they go out)  what type of establishment they are going to. If they don't have a kids menu you should not bring your child.  If your children can not sit at a table at home without a melt down you should not bring them until they learn this skill.  If a movie is PG-13 it is probably not an age appropriate movie for you 3 year old!!!!  Common sense is a skill lacking in this day and age.  Just think before you do something and you will be amazed at the difference this will make both in your life and the life of your children!
Aug 4, 2011 6:29 PM Guest Marie  says:

IT IS THE PARENTS WHO CAN'T CONTROL THE KIDS THAT NEED TO BE

EXCUSED FROM THE RESTAURANTS...BELIEVE ME, IF THEY WOULD DISCIPLINE THE CHILDREN, THEY WOULD AND SHOULD BE MOST WELCOME.

HOWEVER, I'VE SEEN THE HUGE MESSES THAT SOME CHILDREN LEAVE AND I CAN SEE WHY A REASTAURANT MIGHT HAVE THEM EXCUSED TO LEAVE. BUT FOR THE REST OF THE FAMILIES WHO'S KIDS ARE WELL BEHAVED..THEY SHOULD NOT BE EXCLUDED.

Aug 4, 2011 6:33 PM Guest Suzanne  says:
I think restaurants have good reason to do this; my husband and I have been out for a date and had to endure loud, obnoxious, rude , and undisciplined kids while the parents were either clueless or just plain ignorant of training children to behave in public. When my husband and I were kids, we were expected to behave whenever out in public. We have taught our children to follow suit. Too many young parents these days are way too permissive with discipline issues and basic manners with their children. Maybe this restriction from restaurants will serve as a wake up call to these parents of undisciplined kids and they will start training them up right.
Aug 4, 2011 6:36 PM Guest Sandi  says:
I agree that children are indeed a blessing and I can't imagine life without my two. But there are times when you want to relax, enjoy conversation and NOT have to take care of someone else. It is called a break and can actually be helpful. Who wants their dinner ruined by a child that cannot (or will not) be disciplined by the parents. There are places that welcome families with open arms and there are those, by nature, where children shouldn't be. The gentleman who owns this restaurant (outside of a golf course) is catering to his clientele. I'm quite sure that many want to have drinks (which I don't condone) and some may take it too far and honestly would you want your children around that?
Aug 4, 2011 7:22 PM Guest C  says:
For me it is a complete waste of money to go to a restaurant if my kids will not behave. I can't enjoy it either when they aren't sitting in their seat or are fighting. We never go to resaurant's on the grade above Frisch's or McDonalds with them. My 10 year old and 6 year old are fine when we go out so I do think it is an age thing. You can't always reason with a 2 or 3 year old. I understand why people are concerned, but I also think it is a lack of common sense on the parents part. It is really hard for a young child to wait 30-60 minutes for food. What upsets me more is rude adults. I can not tell you the number of times someone will say vile swear words right next to me and my young children. Today even some "older" women was mad at Walmart over the time it took an associate took to get to her and she was venting at ME with MY 5 mo old, 4 yr old, and 6 yr old talking about the computers. It really upsets me that adults have no respect for other people's values or children.
Aug 4, 2011 7:09 PM Guest faye  says:
Crying children can be annoying. I tend to feel pity for the parents. Out of control children just need to be taken out of the public area till they re-gain control. For crying children, I find they will often stop crying with a little distraction such as a stranger looking at them. This has worked for me many times. If they are too tired, too hungry or wet, etc, the parent just needs to deal with them. I would hate to think we are becoming a society where anyone is excluded. The minorities never liked it, I don't like it, and what would be next? Excluding the elderly? I do agree that children too young should not be in movie showings which are too mature for their age. Some businesses will likely lose money if they exclude families. Maybe they should try putting families with children in what used to be the smokers only section? Just a thought, keep all the children in one area, like McDonald's playland.
Aug 4, 2011 8:32 PM Guest Edward  says:
This is horrible. They can spin it any which way and try to justify it, but their true colors show, and it's anti-child no matter how you slice it. It's one more way to tell children they are not made in God's image, and then people wonder why so many kids dress in black Gothic makeup and clothes, and degrade themselves in a thousand ways. I know why, it's because morally weak adults are too "bothered" by kids being kids. Of course they cry and have meltdowns -- then it passes. No big deal. I say bring on the kids and send the whinning adults out!
Aug 5, 2011 6:21 AM Guest Jody F.  says:
As a mother of two boys, I can see both sides of this argument. I personally have no issue with businesses choosing to cater to adults, nor do I think it wrong for some to cater to families with small children. I was very careful to make sure my children were well disciplined, but I also understand that with small children, there is only so much you can do. My advice to parents with small children is to simply avoid businesses that are not child friendly and give your hard earned money to those that welcome people of all ages.
Aug 5, 2011 6:22 AM Guest Linda  says:
I think that this anti-child thing is just another effort in slamming the family and family values.
Aug 4, 2011 9:31 PM Guest Billy  says:
My wife and I adopted two boys with behavioral and emotional problems. On one of our first outings to a fast-food joint, one of our boys stood up and started crying and pouting. We got dirty looks from a woman in the fast food joint. It was only the second time this child had ever been in a restaurant, the first being with us just a week before. My wife and I could not help but laugh that we were snubbed at a fast food place. After that, we took our boys to restaurants about once a month, with good behavior increasing. We taught our boys to behave at restaurants. I do not think that a "Child-Free" restaurant is aimed against children as it seems is the point of view of the writer; it seems to me that is is focused on the parents who neglect their job to "train up a child" to behave in public. Also, children should not be out at midnight at a restaurant or where the waitresses wear clothing degrading to women. Perhaps Child-Free restaurants should take another angle, though:  Children allowed if parents are willing to do their duties and raise them."
Aug 4, 2011 9:36 PM Guest Sheila  says:

I have felt very disappointed by attitudes of others when it comes to children.  I feel that the overall American self seekers don't see the vaule of "family friendly" environments.  There are already so many friends, family, and public places that make parents cringe.  Overall, I feel that we as a country have encourage individualistic thought processes, so why should someone want to be bothered by our children.  After visiting African and Asian countries, I am ashamed by my own selfish culture and seek to develope true Biblical friendships which help me "love others as I love myself." I know that there are family friendly events and communities here, so I seek those out.  I have even missed out on many events at work with co-workers because the events aren't family friendly.  After a day away from my son, I choose things that we can do together.

Aug 4, 2011 9:57 PM Guest Scott  says:
I believe that this is very sad.  Yes, children who do not behave in public very well should be controlled, but the courts have tied the parents hands on that subject.  However, "Adult only" movies do not have any place in the world.  Shopping with children is considered/urged as a learning tool between both the child and the parent.
Aug 4, 2011 10:45 PM Guest Lara  says:
Our son is almost 40 and we followed what my parents did. Take him wherever we went. How can a child learn good behavior in a restaurants, or anyplace else, unless they are put in the position to learn? We used common sense about where to go when we went out. Don't take a child where you have to wait for courses to be served, but to a nice place all the same. Now our son uses that same judgement. When his children act up he takes them out and takes care of business, so to speak, and returns to the table. But like I said, choose a place where the emphasis is on family, not a "nightclub atmosphere." What would we do if churches started singling out services "for adult attendance only?"
Aug 5, 2011 6:28 AM Guest Toby H.  says:
God bless us all, including our children.
Aug 4, 2011 11:31 PM Guest Jayne  says:
I think a lot of this is brought on by parents who don't know how to discipline kids, don't know what kids of certain ages can reasonably handle, and/or think kids should go everywhere. They don't need all that exposure. A local pastor told a story of his trip to NY, and since it was his wedding anniversary, took his wife to an upscale NY restaurant. He also had his 1 yr old in tow, and he told of what a scene she ended up causing. C'mon. Really? So restaurants have to make rules, because we can't rely on parents to have sense. Of course there will always be family friendly and kid friendly places, because there will be a market for it. Our theaters have special times for moms/tots. Great! What's wrong with a kid-free movie time as well, as long as they don't make it the Saturday matinee.   I don't think we need to see this as an attack on family, but perhaps a social reaction to the trend of life revolving around (indulging) the child. (Or, conversely, the kids who are on their own way too young.)
Aug 5, 2011 6:29 AM Guest Tina S.  says:
Well, I do think that there are times and places for it.  I could understand certain hours and times--or, maybe, really fancy restaurants.  And, I can understand, for flying first class.  And, I can understand, sometimes, in restaurants.  But, I can't see it being all the time.  And, it does seem, that, there should be some tolerance, after the age of six.  And, there should be times when kids are allowed.  But, I agree, I feel compassion for the parents, if the kids are very young.  And, the parents do need to discipline, in love.
Aug 5, 2011 6:50 AM Guest Carlos G.  says:

I am not agree woth childfree restauratns, they are a blessing from our Lord and are arrows for our vows, I think something obscure (homosexual movements) are behind the smoke screens.

 

Regards, Carlos, Mexico

Aug 5, 2011 2:12 AM Guest Mother Of Seven Blessings  says:

It never bothered me honestly, restaurants or areas where kids couldn’t go. Having been a child myself and now having children I would think to myself “Someday I will be 80 and not want to be bothered with children just like those other people.”

I am not sure that is true and if it becomes true then the failure isn’t entirely mine.

Forming a response to this topic reaches deep into my child hood, shadow memories, plus convictions, plus current observations all come together like an image reflecting off of a cloud. I hope you can decipher the picture.

When I was a child I had a wonderful Grandfather he always sought to include the kids. I KNEW that when I walked through the door that there would be a hug waiting for me not just for my parents. When the weather was nice, he was outside with us throwing the ball.

He is gone now and with him the passing of something great. Now in our family his children are the captains and they put the kids aside more and they don’t hug the kids when they walk through the door but neither do I. I have my excuses, “So much to do”. I bet Grandpa was busy too.

When children come to my home and I don’t have outdoor activities planned I cringe because of past experiences with children in my home especially boys. They don’t have any respect, manners or common knowledge of how to act in public.

When I was a kid children were included in the church service. Now I am a mother and we recently went to a church that was glorified babysitting. They would put a Christian movie on for the kids and hoped they learned something.

When I was in elementary school I went on a missions trip to Brazil. While there we went to a very poor part of town and our team spoke at a church that was nothing more than a mud building with a tin roof. It was so hot in there. In the front row were the smallest children no more than two years old. I never saw them wiggle, jab, or be distracting to others in any way. I know that it is possible to have a two year old sit and listen for an hour and a half.

When I was a teen my parents had some friends that had a dog. I dreaded going to their house because the dog would stick his nose in places it ought not go and jump on me with its dirty paws making a mess of my clean clothes, ruining my stockings and embarrassing me completely.

To conclude dogs are cute and loyal and have many benefits but when they act like the one I mentioned previously it is difficult to see the benefits while being accosted. Children are blessings from the Lord but how difficult it is to see them as blessings when they are disrespectful, hurtful to my children, rude about the food that is provided, and the list goes on and on. Parents you have failed me and your children and now people don’t want them in their pools and restaurants but can we blame them?

-Mother Of Seven Blessings

Aug 5, 2011 5:53 AM Guest Ron  says:
Children are God's blessing to us and me personally. Some parents do not seem to be as involved in raising children as they need to be. I have a very strong willed daughter and granddaughter. Parents can shape their will without breaking their spirit. Let the marketplace prevail. In doing so, NEVER attack the child's character.
Aug 5, 2011 6:00 AM Guest Sarah  says:
Although I certainly agree that our culture is not embracing children enough, I don't think this is indicative of such. I feel that it's a wonderful idea for a nicer restaurant to have child-free hours. Nothing ruins a romantic evening more than to have an uncontrollable child in the restaurant, who should be in bed anyways. This is the same reason that it's poor etiquette to bring babies and small children to weddings. The problem is that our culture has simply abandoned basic rules of etiquette.
Aug 5, 2011 6:31 AM Guest John  says in response to Rise:
Now this reply i like. Its all about discipline and parents should realise this, some parents just dont give a hoot and it is manifested in unruly children, who in turn when they grow up and become parents, act just the same.
Aug 5, 2011 6:39 AM Guest John  says in response to jackie:
Another excellent comment, sorry Julie,(previous comment) dont have compasion on those parents of unruly kids, they are just not doing their role as parents. Its about time society woke up and started doing what is required, and that is to inform parents that anti social behaviour of children is just not on.
Aug 5, 2011 7:32 AM Guest Cathy L  says:
Having thought long and hard about this, I've come to the following conclusion. I don't believe children need to be present at every time at every event. Certainly, there are times when banning children makes sense and occasionally adults should be able to count on a child-free event- AS LONG AS WE ALL AGREE ON WHAT FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION ACTUALLY MEANS. Freedom of association is a bedrock foundation in our country- you are free to mingle with those you wish, and may avoid those you do not like. You get to choose your friends, workplace, school, etc. HOWEVER, liberal thinkers apply this freedom only as they choose. For instance, black students may create an all-black school. There are no all-white schools. Women may have female-only hours at the gym. There are no male-only hours. Some elementary schools have raised eyebrows by demanding that children not be permitted to choose their friends, and instead must allow everyone to join in their games. State financed schools may be notoriously left-leaning, but you will find no publicly financed schools that lean to the right. In other words, my freedom to associate is severely limited by leftist thinking. This ban on children is simply another chance for liberals to ban the types of people they find objectionable. I do not have that same freedom. I don't object to banning children as long as we dismantle all laws that force employers to maintain employees that they don't like, or enforce "multi-culturalism" in schools, etc. Allow actual freedom to associate, and you may ban children in certain restaurants.
Aug 5, 2011 7:34 AM Guest Fay  says in response to Paul F. H., Jr.:

Sorry but I will only be patronizing restaurants that restrict child behavior.   I will not pay $20 + for a meal or a show only to have the unruly kids at the table or row next to me ruin it.    People with no children have just as much right to a quiet atmosphere as any parent who feels they must take junior along to enjoy theirs. 

 

At the very least, separate the parents from the non-parents dining areas.

Aug 5, 2011 7:44 AM Guest Jen  says in response to Sarah:

As a mother of young children, I understand the temptation of wanting a little "peace & quiet" now and then. However.... I do believe that the Lord upheld the dignity of children and that an actual banning would take our nation further in a direction that does not please Him. Yes, I believe that children should learn to behave with respect and consideration toward others, yet this learning does take time. More time than parents sometimes would like (as I can personally attest -as a mom of at least one "strong-willed" tyke).

 

We need to bear with one another, this includes the little ones AND perhaps their neglectful parents. Keep in mind that often children have yet to accept Jesus as their personal Savior, and many of the parents need Him too. With unregenerate hearts, we can only expect so much. Perhaps seeing disrespectful children in public is an opportunity for us to pray for him/her and the parent(s). We're witnessing sin -which is always unpleasant- but should cause us to be thankful for the Spirit's work in our own hearts, and offer grace -just as Jesus would.

Aug 5, 2011 9:04 AM Guest Jonelyn P.  says:

I do think that there are some unfortunate trends in our society:

  • an intolerance towards others, a lack of grace towards anyone who seems to interfere with our perfect moment,
  • a shift away from seeing children as a natural part of marriage, and
  • an indulgence towards children causing them not to be taught to control their behavior which results in some really bad behavior in public.

 

However, I totally agree that chidlren can be unpredictable no matter how well parented.  Also, there are times that adults, as much as they see children as a blessing, might want to enjoy a quieter, more romatic, childless moment.  For example, when a couple goes out on date night, it can be distracting and frustrating to hear screaming children nearby.  Therefore, I support the concept of child-free dining locations or times of the day.  I hope we do not end up at a point where there are no restaurants that will accept children, but I think it is acceptable for a business to make the decision that they will cater to those desiring a "child-free" dining experience.

Aug 5, 2011 9:06 AM Guest Maryruth E.A.  says in response to Nick:
I really agree.  Bars won't let cildren in--and no one is complaining.  Don't get me wrong, I have 4 adopted children--we love kids!  Yet there were definitely nights when I might like to have gone to such a restaurant!  I believe the issue here is simply supply and demand--this may be a new niche here.  No one is demanding tat pharmacies sell organic produce--they do not therefore serve the organic produce shopper--but there will always be shops that do cater to the organics produce shopper--and many of them WILL allow kids much of the time! Why are people upset that someone is catering to adults only?  After all, I can't go on the play equipment at McDonalds either--and I hear no outcry among the other 50 something adults who all wish they too could play on those monkey bars! Again--the proprieter has targeted a market that she or he believes is underserved--and that makes good business sense in a declining market where competition for diners is tight.  It seems to me it is the whole point of capitolism--find and fill a niche, and build a business in the meantime...Does this really mean there will be no more family restaurants?  I doubt it!  Perhaps someone else will open a business next door that caters to young parents who want their screaming 2 year olds pampered after the tantrum is over! (or even better, who will entertain the screaming toddler and lovingly take over for the overwhelmed parents!)
Aug 5, 2011 8:06 AM Guest LBS  says:

My children are young adults now, but I had to teach them how to behave in public! It's not something they already knew how to do.

After homeschooling many years, I'm now teaching in a private school and am amazed with the parents. I fell as if I'm rearing parents as well as their children.

The problem isn't with the children, but with the parents.

Aug 5, 2011 8:12 AM Guest ina  says:
Parents must discipline their children properly. Banning them from restaurants is not the answer. How will they ever learn to act in restaurants or anywhere in public if they are not allowed in? Unfortunately some parents never learned to be responsible parents. Parents, take time to train up your children. The time to teach them is when they are young.
Aug 5, 2011 8:18 AM Guest Jennifer  says in response to Laurie:

YES!!  I whole-heartedly agree with you.  110%.  You have expressed your views, and mine, beautifully. 

Aug 5, 2011 8:20 AM Guest Michelle  says:

I had heard about this resturant banning children. I was apalled. I have three children of my own ages 11, 8 and 4. We take them out to resturants, movies, etc. And, are often complimented on their behavior. (Is good behavior such a rarity?) Here's a thought, instead of banning ALL young children from a public place, how about the business just politely ask the patron with the screaming/misbehaving child to leave? Why shouldn't well behaved children be able to enjoy the benefit of a nice time just because there are PARENTS who don't want to raise their own children properly? My own children don't want to hear a screaming/misbehaving child anymore then I do.

I think that babies should be kept home mostly, but when out in public, I think that they should be tolerated, (when screaming, etc.) after all, they do not yet know how to behave/misbehave. I kept my children home when they were infants most of the time, but when I did go out, what a blessing!

 

And, one last thing..... why is it that a theater is more willing to keep young children out, but are not willing to keep older, but still, under-aged children out of R movies also?

 

I think that either one of two things will happen... either our society will become less and less tolerant of not just children, but also senior citizens, etc. Or, someone will see a need to carter to the needs of the ones being banned/untolerated.

Aug 5, 2011 8:21 AM Guest Mary  says:

What a sad commentary on our societal attitudes toward children.  Children should be welcomed everywhere.  HOWEVER parents should take full responsibilty for their children's behavior.  If your child is disturbing others you need to take them out and work with them.  Yes, this might mean you miss the wedding, sermon, meal or the movie but that is how little people learn that bad behavior does have consequences.   Rowdy kids need to be taken to places where they can be successful in their public behavior.  McDonald's might be a good place to start and then move up to more stuctured formal places.  Children are a blessing!

Aug 5, 2011 9:23 AM Guest Susan W.  says:

My "children" are 20 and 23 yrs old, so the days of crying in a restaurant are over... HOWEVER.. I LOVE seeing families out together and can frequently calm a distraught mother down a bit by saying something like, "I remember when mine were that age and would pitch a fit in a public place. Believe me, It's no big deal. Everyone was once that crying kid!" It's funny how often a little comment can help.

BUT, if it doesn't.... I just have patience.  Children ARE a blessing from the Lord, even the ones who aren't mine!

Aug 5, 2011 9:27 AM Guest Rev. Robert B.  says:

Babies should not be in movie theaters, and small children who cannot behave should not be in them either. When our kids were small we got a babysitter, then went out. I cannot tell you the number of movie experiences ruined because of a crying baby. Just this past weekend I flew from San Diego to Dulles. Our kids did not get to go out to restaurants until they behaved and if they did misbehave, we took them outside till they calmed down. There were two parents whose children were disruptive and screaming and crying and the parents just ignored them. The problem is not so much the kids but the parents who do nothing. 

Aug 5, 2011 9:50 AM Guest Daniel W.  says in response to Susan:

[Please consider the proper use of scarcasim as a litiary tool to enhance thoughtful understanding]

 

I have 2 children under 15, so I do comprehend parenting and that each child is unique.  However, I am alarmed by a trend that in its infancy targets a class of people (i.e. children) which may in the future be modified to target other classes of people (i.e. old people, black people, religious freaks which the law compels they sew a yellow cross or star on their clothing,,,,).  I do not believe it is prudent to allow the targeting of a people group.  Rather, a business owner should empower their employees to properly respond to the unacceptable actions of an individual.  There already exists "we maintain the right to refuse service to anyone" signs...if wanted, they could add to it "...even those with disruptive children."

 

I understand the desire of business owners.  It is a reaction to a culture shift now producing unruly children, the product of (in most cases) parents who themselves generational products of parental neglect and permissiveness.  Many of these new adults fail to truley discipline their own children (and by children I mean refer to those around 16 and under), and of course I include those parents who are truly self-centered (you know the ones I mean....where the kids are "latch key" even when the parents are present (...on their cell, ignoring and even not caring what their children may be doing, unable to discipline, this from a personal failure to even know how or why one does discipline.  The parents who use anger, threats or uncontrolled violence to merely "clear a space for their own comfort" (not remotely concerned for the standards of society in general). Parents that rather than purposely target an unacceptable behavior or even truly attempt to discipline to shape their children's development as a learning tool, will not take action).

 

I along with so many men and women in our culture, see that obedient children has become a rarity. But "if one night a woman with a baby decided to attend the theater and just as the "movie" began to play, her "unruly" child started to cry....and she...Lord help us all...spanked it!

 

I'd be the first one to yell out “Stop those fiddles and let the baby cry,”....“I haven’t heard such a sound in ten years!”

 

And I'm pretty sure that the ending would still be the same: "According to the story, the audience roared its approval."

 

 


Aug 5, 2011 8:40 AM Guest Jennifer  says in response to Anne S.:
It starts with the parents.  Parents who do not discipline their children and allow for their misbehavior, whether at home or in public, are the issue.  Too many parents these days do not discipline and control their children for whatever the reason, yet it's so sad to me when we have pointed the blame at children for being children. 
Aug 5, 2011 10:09 AM Guest Gary  says:

Children are definately a blessing from God, but I believe they must be raised in the ways of the Lord.  Unfortunately there are too many parents out there who are not qualified to raise children properly.  If these parents would work on their parenting skills, it would be fine.  But many do not.   The child is the one who, in the end, pays the biggest price, but in the meantime there is also collateral damage to innocent bystanders.  Case in point, my family was recently at a fairly nice restaurant for dinner.  We are not flourishing financially these days, so going out to a nice restaurant is a real treat, and a special occassion we savor.  The place was not too crowded, but a table near ours had a young girl (about 4 or 5 years old) who was running around the room, making a racket.  The entire ambiance of this upscale restarant was reduced to the that of a pre-schooler classroom during play time.

     I really don't think I am being overly selfish or demanding in asking for a pleasant environment to enjoy a meal in, particularly when I am splurging with my family at an upscale restaurant.  If the girl's parents would have "reigned her in" to some degree, things would have been fine.  It's not like I am expecting complete peace and quiet.  But they did not, apparently feeling like part of their experience of eating out should include the young girl acting as if she were playing on a playground.

     Since our society has degradated to the philosophy of "I'll do it if I believe I have the right to do it", we have created the need to create more rules, ie. no children under six allowed.  It's not the best answer, but unless we find a way to mandate better parenting skills, it seems like one of the few options at this point.

Aug 5, 2011 10:17 AM Guest Gary  says in response to Susan:
Absolutely!  I hear some parents say things like "oh, she's only six" when a child is being rude, loud, or impolite.  They excuse it away.  I say baloney.  Children can comprehend more than most people seem to realize.  Starting to teach them about manners and appropiate behaviour should begin as early as comprehension will allow.  Not when they are older, and are very well versed in behaving poorly.
Aug 5, 2011 10:49 AM Guest Heather  says in response to Agnes:
I agree. I have 5 children and adore them, but it's good to have undistracted time with my husband, for sure.
Aug 5, 2011 10:51 AM Guest Jan  says in response to Tara:
AMEN!
Aug 5, 2011 11:12 AM Guest Cyndi  says:
Most of the comments are right on.  I love children and so does my husband and will have fun with them when we are out.  Unfortunately, it seems that there are many families who do not "parent" their children and teach them manners and I know that there are some strong-willed children or moments but still parents are not helping their children by not teaching them how do act in public.  This may because the parents weren't trained as children to have respect for others when they are out.  We took our daughter everywhere but she knew the rules and when she didn't follow the rules, one of us took her out of the restaurant (so not to disrupt others anymore and to speak privately to our daughter so not to embarrass her by scolding her in front of others) and spoke sternly to her reminding her of the rules.  It would be just like teaching them to read, go potty, etc.  They are not perfect, parents aren't perfect but we learn and grow along the way.  They need to learn the big picture and how our actions do affect others and we are called to lift others up.   I feel that the waitress/waiters, other guests of the restaurant, managers do not need to be the parents.  To me it would be similar to a loud adlult customer - the restaurant is not the place - there are others around you.  It is unfortunate that restaurants have to take a stand.   This goes along with schools also where teachers are having to be the parents in many instances.  God has blessed us with wonderful children and has given us reponisibility to train and discipline them.  He is our awesome Guide.  Amen.
Aug 8, 2011 11:48 AM Guest Dave  says:

Jim, I think there are plenty of other battles to fight. The problem is that parenting in our country has become so lax, that business owners have to take matters into their own hands.

A lot of parents out there are not raising their children in a godly way. They allow their kids to have free reign at home or running around tables in a restaurant. Many don't even remove their kids when they have a tantrum. Instead they give in to whatever the kid wants.

I don't feel compassion for parents who let their kids run all over them and other bystanders. I feel contempt for them and disgust with what little social capital we have left in this country. Show me parents who have read Dare To Discipline at least once and are earnestly trying to train up their kids and I will have compassion on them. In fact, I'll pay for their unfinshed meal as they take their unruly blessing from the Lord out of the restaurant and allow others to enjoy their evening out. I'll even throw in money for a babysitter for the next time.

Jesus never said, "Suffer the little children unto a nice restaurant."

Aug 5, 2011 11:37 AM Guest Elisa  says:
The question that comes to my mind is not if it's a growing trend for intolerance of children, but maybe a growing trend of parents with questionable boundaries.  So many parents now-a-days let their kids control the family instead of the other way around and I do see parents take their kids to places where it would have been more appropriate to have hired a baby sitter.  Kids with no boundaries set for them and in areas that are socially more appropriate for adults is not a good combination.  I think common courtesy is more of an issue on the parent's part, not necessarily an intolerance of the children.  I'm sure there are some who do have an issue with the whole "the child is to be seen but not heard", but that's where the parents intuition should kick in and recognize if it's an environment appropriate for children.
Aug 5, 2011 11:57 AM Guest Maureen S.  says:
When I am paying $35.00+ a plate for dinner, I am not happy to listen to screaming babies or toddlers running amok. When my children were small, we did not take them out to " fine" restaurants until they knew appropriate restaurant behavior. If I am at McDonald's, or Friendly's, I expect children and therefore understand what I am going to get. However, I have seen indulgent parents smiling blissfully as their toddlers and older children run around and/or bother other patrons, not to mention potentially tripping up a waitress carrying hot coffee. And then guess who would be the first to initiate a lawsuit!
Aug 5, 2011 12:05 PM Guest Marsha F.  says:
We think this is a great idea...we hope it catches on in California.  Just last night in a nice restaurant (not a child-oriented fast food place) one family allowed their little kids to run around their table playing tag and shrieking.  The table on the other side of room had four or five little kids talking loud, wrestling with each other, wandering around the other tables, etc.  My husband and I eat dinner out 8:30 or 9:00 or later because of his job.  We used to think "it will be quieter tonight because it is past most kids' bedtime" or "it is a school night, so they won't be out this late".  Not so, unfortunately.  It is a great idea to have a no-kids evening at the theaters too!  There is nothing like noisy, talking kids constantly kicking the back of your seat to spoil any movie.
Aug 5, 2011 12:17 PM Guest Tracy  says:

I agree with the people who are pointing out the root of the problem--most parents today do not teach their children to behave in public.  And much of the time, the parents came from homes where they weren't taught to mind either, so are only passing on what they know.  It's all about responsibility and accountability, which is sadly lacking in this country.  Children are a gift from God, and as such, we should do our best to "train them up in the way they should go."  My child is not perfect, but he definitely knows right from wrong and what is expected of him when we are out and about.  In a public place, I can tolerate a baby who doesn't know any better, crying, but I cannot tolerate children who are allowed to run wild like small animals.

Aug 5, 2011 1:10 PM Guest Lyle W.  says:

I think this is another sad reflection of the self-centeredness that is so rampant in our society.

Aug 5, 2011 12:59 PM Guest Brenda  says:

I myself have two sons and think they are the greatest blessing from above.  I believe the trend in child free establishments has more to do with adults not parenting their children then childless couples not wanting to be around children.  When my son was two and prone to acting out, I did not take him out.  We spent most of our time at home so that I could break him of this habit by simply ignoring him and walking away.  Once he seemed to get the idea that bad behavior did not receive attention, we started to journey back out again.  I rarely go to a restaurant or public place where I don't see children behaving badly and parents either ignoring their behavior, or giving the child whatever they want.  It is so bad sometimes that it's difficult to watch, and equally unpleasant to be around.  It is alarming to see the amount of children that disrespect their parents.

I believe the trend is parents wanting to be friends to their children and not parent them.  We are living in a culture where adults can't even say "no" to themselves, so why would we expect them to be able to say "no" to their children.

Aug 5, 2011 1:10 PM Guest Paula  says:
When my husband mentioned this "trend" to me a week or so ago, I honestly wasn't surprised.  We're the parents of two boys, ages 8 and almost 3, and while child-free places might make our lives a little more difficult, I can totally understand why companies and merchants would do this.  I'm with the others who have commented about out-of-control, undisciplined children.  I have compassion for those parents who are struggling with children who are misbehaving or throwing a public tantrum, because at least they're trying - and I usually try to say something encouraging to them.  But I think all of us have been in places where children are running wild, being disruptive and otherwise disrespecting those around them, and the parents are oblivious or simply try to tell them to behave but without any weight behind their words.  Frankly, I don't want to be around those children.  I wouldn't want to be around my own children if they were acting like that!  Maybe there is a growing intolerance to children in our society, but I have to think if we didn't have so many children behaving so poorly in public, that intolerance might not exist.
Aug 5, 2011 1:21 PM Guest David  says:

I think that any restaurant that had the privilege of hosting Prince and Princess William and Kate in a few years, if they have a new royal child with them, would not hesitate to allow them the same quality service.

 

Also, I have worked in a restaurant where this one day in particular, a young toddler was upset with how his mother was trying to help him, and so the toddler started screaming.  The screaming got everyone in the restaurant's attention, including mine.  I went to the table where the child was and made eye contact with the child.  As soon as he saw me looking at him and that I was someone who was as curious about who he was as he of me, he stopped his screaming and gave me his full attention, during which time the mother saw the opportunity to do what she needed to do.  Afterward, the mother thanked me for helping settle her child.

 

We live in a very pragmatic culture to the degree that if something doesn't work the way we expect for it to work, we call it broken and do everything we can to get things done our way.  Then those who want to tell you how it was designed to work are called narrow-minded.  If the baby doesn't behave the way we want, we think the child is being a nuisance instead of trying to figure out the cause of the problem.

Aug 5, 2011 1:21 PM Guest agapegirl  says:
I agree that children are a blessing from God. However, there are a lot of children that are not being trained/disciplined. I cannot tell you how many times I have gone shopping only to have entered into a play ground for running and screaming children and the parents do nothing about it. I for one do not want to go shopping and have to complete a mobile obstacle course. I have also gone into restuarants where children are doing the same thing. I can stay home and have a quiter dinner without having to pay restuarant prices.
Aug 5, 2011 1:51 PM Guest Vernon  says:
I am single without any kids plus I am not able to eat at even fast food very often so although I like kids, I don't see kids behaving badly often although parents need to have some time to relaxed at times by themselves. It seems the younger kids are naturally not going to as mature as older children although there is a point when they have to be dealt with in the calmest possible way.
Aug 5, 2011 2:17 PM Guest Margaret  says:
I think that child-free restaurants are a great idea, because there are many people who would go there for the relaxing atmosphere.  There will always be child-friendly places to eat, so parents taking their kids out will always have many options, but those of us that prefer quiet places have few choices.
Aug 5, 2011 2:45 PM Guest Soon-to-be-Mommy  says:
As a "late bloomer" who married in her 30s and is now expecting her first child, I have been of the privileged set who enjoyed childless nights out with friends for a decade since graduating from college. It was AWESOME! I couldn't agree more with those who say that screaming children in public spaces only deter the childless from trying to settle down and have children. Even now, as I enter my 2nd trimester in pregnancy (praise the Lord =)), I pray daily that my husband and I will have the patience and wisdom to raise children who are well-behaved...so that when we do bring them out of our home, non-parents will look upon our family as something to have, not avoid. May we learn to bless others with our lives, not curse them.
Aug 5, 2011 3:18 PM Guest Alet  says in response to Susan:
I have to agree, the problem is not that these businesses don't like children, the problem is that people are not training children in the 'way that they should go" and therefore they are a real distraction/problem etc.  In some households it seems to be the children who are in charge and the parents seem afraid to say NO. I believe Mom's need to stay home and Dad's need to be involved... it's really a tough predicament that we're in with no easy solution. My husband always says, "When you have kids, you are no longer # 1 the child comes first and your life changes" He does not mean to spoil a child but to give him/her routine, time, love, dicipline etc. I feel young couples are missing this point, they still want to do all the things they did before they had children and that is just not possible if you want to have well adjusted, diciplined, obedient and pleasant children then you have to work for it.
Aug 5, 2011 3:22 PM Guest shelley  says:
If I pay money to watch a movie or have a nice dinner I do not want to have screaming children who are not being dealt with remaining in the theater or restaurant.  This opinion does not come from a lack of love for children.  My husband and I have six children.  My experience has been that parents are not being respondsible in raising their children.  They take them out and let them act anyway they want.  There is probably no good training taking place at home either.  This is a parent problem not a child problem.
Aug 5, 2011 3:29 PM Guest Lisa  says:
I am a stay-at-home mom with four children between the ages of six and twelve.  I don't have a problem with businesses who cater to adult-only hours.  While my husband and I are very protective of our family time and sit-down dinners all together, I rather like the idea of dining out or shopping without the distraction of children.  I would consider it a brief respite from the daily chatter and noise that is my life right now.  During this season of life, I have come to appreciate the saying, "silence is golden"!
Aug 5, 2011 3:40 PM smaczz00 smaczz00    says:

This is a problem created by lack of discipline and parents being afraid to control their children's behavior. I am 58 years old and I never remember children, including myself, being allowed to misbehave in public. It's a sign of the troubled times we are in. We are out of the Biblical order which God established and the result is chaos and rebellion. Children need love and instruction but also correction and discipline.

Any business has the right to limit their clientele (no shirt, no shoes, no service, no smoking, etc.) and if they see business suffering due to unsupervised or uncontrolled children, they are making that decision to keep business. I don't see this as a "trend" toward childless couples but rather as parents who need Bible based instruction and some stress-free time. The church should be the answer for both of these. Babysitting services and mentoring programs to help those young, overwhelmed parents are desperately needed in the church today.   

Aug 5, 2011 3:48 PM Guest Paul  says:
Most people feel this is a great thing.  This is due the fact that so many parents do not bother to control their chiildren and allow them to cause havoc and distrupt things for everyone.  If parenting skill were better used, these measures would not be needed.
Aug 5, 2011 4:04 PM Guest Kelly  says:

I'm never bothered by children who behave themselves in public. It's the lack of discipline on the parents' part that make me very glad this is a growing trend. My parents never tolerated ANY tantrums, screaming, running, etc. from me or my brother. My mom told me she never had to worry about taking us out in public. She knew we would behave. That's just good manners and civilized behavior. If I want to be surrounded by a group of howler monkeys, I'll visit the zoo.

Aug 5, 2011 4:05 PM Guest Curt  says in response to Agnes:
I agree with Agnes but I do want to say this that children are a product of their parents.  When our children were little and didn't know any words to express their feelings at the time they would show their discomfort by crying.  They were trying to tell us something.  It's that something that parents have to figure out and while they're figuring it out take them outside.  A plane is no place for a baby.  The cabin pressure constantly adjusting hurts their ears.  Spoiling children to make them behave is the wrong answer.  There are plenty of restaurants like McDonalds that are kid friendly and I don't think anyone is going to go on a date night there.
Aug 5, 2011 4:44 PM Guest Jonathan C.  says:

If you think about it, maybe these restaurants are just following the pattern of most churches.....The majority don't like to have children in them either.  That's why we have student buildings with student worship and children's ministries during worship.  I can't be too hard on restaurants until our churches start leading the way.  What is your church like?  Do you spend that hour on Sunday mornings worshipping and growing together as a family or are your kids not really allowed?

Jonathan

Aug 5, 2011 5:23 PM Guest Norma  says:

A couple of thoughts:

Screaming children are very annoying, yet we are told to ignore 'bad' behaviour  thereby depriving the child of the attention they seek.

In public however a screaming child should be removed by the parent which often doesn't happen as the selfish adult 'wants' to finish their meal, see the end of the movie, etc.rather than live up to their parental and public responsibilties.

Some children scream because of a unseen medical condition, and for those parents my heart goes out.

Life involves all cultures, all generations and we should try to be tolerant and appreciate what each one of us can offer, how many of us smile when we see a child being carefree, silly or appreciating the wonder of nature? I hate to think of a culture of unseen children, we will all  suffer the loss.

Aug 5, 2011 6:17 PM Guest Katie  says:

I am a mother of twin boys, and I get annoyed with children too.  There are times I wish I could go to a "family movie" without having to listen to complete conversations near me.

 

I think this isn't so much a reaction to less tolerance for children in general, but more of a reaction to the lack of discipline with the average child.  Yes, no one can always control their children.  But I look at it more like our leash laws.  In the US almost everywhere requires all dogs to be kept on a leash outside of your personal property.  In Europe, leashes are certainly available but they aren't required.  The understanding is that if your dog isn't behaved you will keep them on a leash instead of requiring all dogs to be on a leash because otherwise some dogs will go crazy.  I think some places are needing to ban all children because it's easier to ban all children than for a company to come up to customers and tell them they need to leave because their children are too unruly.  A company would only be setting itself up for problems if they tried to enforce a "bad children" ban.  It is much simpler to ban all children during certain times.

Aug 5, 2011 6:27 PM Guest Flora  says:
While it may show a growing intolerance for children it may also be showing lack of discipline and consideration by parents for those around them. A crying baby can not be controlled and that is understood.  If it is in a place where the child can be removed, such as a theater or restaurant then that is what the parent should do.  A child screaming and running at will in a theater or restaurant destroys any enjoyment. All too often the parent says little or nothing and are defensive or upset if someone finally gets frustrated enough to say something.  Children are a blessing from God but it doesn't feel like that when their uncontrolled public behavior is thrust on people.
Aug 5, 2011 7:54 PM Guest Kristel C.  says:
So disappointed in Whole Foods-they should be the supporters of children!!  They have a great children's shopping area which I frequent, but not I wonder if I will...children are a blessing and the parents that don't take care of their children are the problem!
Aug 5, 2011 7:00 PM Guest Carol  says:
I see too many children acting in an unsafe manner in the supermarket, so I think that places should have the right to have some hours when their business is limited to adults only.  Even our community pool is testing times this summer when only adults can use the pool.  I don't have any children of my own but do love children, however, I think there is nothing wrong in getting a break from them for awhile occasionally.
Aug 5, 2011 8:33 PM Guest Dee  says:

Just this past Sunday I experienced what I first thought were a family of misbehaving children at the local Taco Johns/Good Times Restaurant I decided to take myself to for lunch before heading to the airport to pick up a friend.  I was waiting for my food to be ready and as I waited I thought OH my so much for a relaxing, peaceful lunch, I will take my food and eat it outside.  Mind you I am a home childcare provider fulltime.  I sat there watching and thinking my those little girls are maybe 3 and twins, then there were the three other older boys. One of the boys spilled some of his drink on the floor so rather than add to the problem I decided to just wipe up his spill and say nothing.  Then I saw that the parents had sat down without napkins so I got them some napkins and took them to the table and began talking to each child and the parents.  This calmed the twins down (distracted them from what they thought they needed to be cranky about) and I learned that they had just traveled from TN to CO and were on their way to WY to see Yellowstone Park.  We talked about the area, I wrote down places they could find stores to get snacks and such and some restaurants I knew along the way for them to try.  I must say I felt much better for being a calming solution to the over tired fits of those almost three year old twins.

 

Sometimes we need to stop and take in the entire situation before placing judgement....After all we are all children of God.

Aug 5, 2011 8:56 PM Guest Shannon  says:

I see it both ways. On the one hand, if the child is well behaved, it's a joy to have them around. But if they are not, it can be a real irritation especially to those out to have a quiet dinner.

Overall this trend concerns me as our society continues to devalue children. We do this from prebirth in the form of abortion all the way to senior adults who are not valued because they are not seen as contributors to society. As a society we fail to see the value inherent in each individual as being God given. We can not decide who has worth and who does not based on our perception of their value.

Aug 5, 2011 10:35 PM Guest Craig  says:
It's a real bummer, if you have very young children. If you have special needs child with multiple disabilities like I have, this could be a problem for the family. With a child that can not communbicate normally because they do not have the ability of speech and the only way they can communicate is to make certain noises; what is a parent to do. Bad news travels very quickly in the disability world and that includes Churches, who do not accept children with severe disabilities. All I can say is restaurants, etc. better be very careful on how they treat children with disabilities; they could have some very serious legal problems. I can understand their point of view and the customers, but they need to value children as positive and possibly have a walled area that can be used by families with young children. We haven't had a serious problem with being treated unfairly. But one time we had to leave a steak place because the music was way too loud not only for us but for our special needs child, she couldn't handel the noise level. We barely started our meal and reading our childs body language, we felt it was best to finish our meal at home or everyone around us would regret eating there.
Aug 5, 2011 10:41 PM Guest Scott  says:
I'm OK with it.  The business should be allowed to decide who they want to serve.  Customers who are offended need not patronize those businesses.  I am VERY opposed to government intervention for this issue - we have WAY too much of that already, and certainly cannot afford any more government nosiness!
Aug 5, 2011 11:00 PM Guest Sherri  says:

I adore my 3 nieces and 3 nephews.  I do take them out in public to kid friendly places.  A LOT of parents do not use that discretion and take their children to enviornment where children should not be.  Restaurants with bars as an example.  In addition 80% of parents today do not know how to make their children behave in public. 

The children run the parents.  I am single and would like the opportunity to shop or eat without a screaming parent or child present.  I believe this is a good thing.  I love the idea. 

Aug 6, 2011 12:43 AM Guest Jaynee  says:
I whole-heartedly agree with this, because parents no longer discipline their children. There are certain places that I dis not take my children. Also, if I tool my children somewhere and they started to misbehave, they were reprimanded and if necessary, removed from the situation. Parents -- in general--- no longer want to set limits with their children; they are more worried about being their friends.
Aug 6, 2011 3:00 AM Guest Rahrah  says:
Well, this is a tough one.  In Genesis, Adam begot Seth in his image, meaning that the separation of communion with God was evident as the children were born with a fallen nature. These observations of children acting out or being unaware of their boundaries can only be validated that all children have the same nature, whether born to Christian parents or not. Whether or not restaurants have a "no child" rule is a Band-Aid solution.  It doesn't change the nature of man and that unless the love of God is awakened and Jesus Christ takes seat in a person's heart. Until then, we need to expect that we will operate and act according to the flesh, period.  Restraining the flesh and imposing these so-called "privileged"  adult outings is evidence that apart from Christ,man lives according to the law, not grace.  It's really an apples and oranges situation, flesh vs. spirit....One can't expect flesh to produce life unless it flows from the Lifegiver Himself.  We can also expect that children need training...don't expect much fruit in the first 18 years of a child's life.  Change is slow!
Aug 6, 2011 3:13 AM Guest Liz  says:
I have three children, I love children and do believe they are a blessing but as parents we are to train and discipline our children.  My youngest constantly tried my patience and it took our consistent, constant, never-get- a break discipling for two LONG years,  I mean never a break!  to make him the young man he is today. ( and it didn't only take two years of discipline, it's on going, but two of those years felt never ending). Which brings me to my point.  I teach sunday school and have kids over All the time and most, not all parents, don't take the time to discipline anymore, They are too busy or too tired or just don't care and some parents have no sense.   I've seen small children in pg 13 to R movies that I probably shouldn't have been to. If  a child is crying at a movie, take him/her outside of the theatre.  If you have other children, bring a friend, so you can walk out with the crying child. Shopping is another thing.  Most of the disturbance is the language and volume the parents use when they are yelling at thier children.  I don't blame establishments for setting rules and I truelly don't believe thier is an anti-family agenda here.  I do believe places are just plain tired of kids that don't behave and the  parents that don't care how thier kids behave!
Aug 6, 2011 4:30 AM paradisefarm paradisefarm    says in response to Dee:

First, I have to say I don't agree with the idea that children, being unpredictable, may have sudden outbursts in retaurants, theaters, etc. I was NEVER allowed to have those outbursts; it's a matter of parenting, and breaking the selfish sinful nature of the child. And I never understood why anyone would take a small child to a public event they would not enjoy. (Really, an infant at the opera?) Now, a kids' movie is different, but the child should still be expected to behave. We are now a society that pampers children to the point where they feel entitled to act as they do, and the sad part is we have a whole generation of these "brats" now raising children! What are they going to act like?

 

It is clearly the fault of the parents, and these restirctions need to be looked at in those terms. Obviously, the children are not bringing themselves to these places of business, so the rule really is directed at bad parents, NOT children.

Aug 6, 2011 7:44 AM Guest Suza  says:
With a declining lack of discipline, self-control, obedience, and understanding of respect, it is often unpleasant to be in public situations with other people's children. Going to a fine restaurant used to be something parents prepared children for.  Manners and behavior were explained beforehand (and expected at home).  Children used to receive greater privileges as they grew, now it seems they are given things or allowed to do things without proving themselves first (which they can prove at home first). I think it's appropriate to have some things "adult only."  If a child is not capable of maintainig whatever the expected behavior is for the event (attention span, sitting through a full dinner, or movie, or play, etc), and the parent does not have the social graces to understand that, then it appears it is necessary for establishments to extend rules or guideline.    Remember when establishments began posting "shirt and shoes required?"  Who would have thought a generation before that a sign like that would ever have been necessary?
Aug 6, 2011 8:16 AM Guest Marcia  says:

Marcia

 

I have 4 children and 10 grandchildren.. It is a fun day to go to a movie together or out to eat. I don't think its the children but the behaviour of them.

 

Nothing is more annoying than to go someplace and there are rude misbehaving children. That is a time to encourage those parents. We might be the only encouragement they have that day.

Aug 6, 2011 8:35 AM Guest Peggy  says in response to Diana:
I agree with most every comment here.  I, too, love children.  I have 8 children and 19 grandchildren but sometimes you need a break from the noise.  Nothing is more bothersome than a screaming, spoiled child in a restaurant (or anywhere for that matter, even church!)  Take them out and get them settled down.  Like many others, I taught my children how to act in public.  So have MY children taught theirs.  I haven't seen any child-free restaurants yet.............where are they in Virginia?
Aug 6, 2011 9:12 AM Guest Lorraine A.  says in response to Susan:
Well said! We travel to Africa each year and find the behavior of those children sterling. Not so in the U.S.A.
Aug 6, 2011 9:23 AM Guest Cara  says:
Children need to learn many things as they grow.  If not given the opportunities they can't learn.  When parents take children out, please have something to snack on like crackers or a drink available immediately or maybe have their order immediately.  If they are hungry they will let every one know that.  The smaller they are, choose a family restaurant with healthy food choices.  Some restaurants also have crayons and paper......something to do to entertain or parents need to be prepared ahead of time.  Children also need to be respected if they are expected to eat late at night when they should already be in bed.  Eat at appropriate times.
Aug 6, 2011 2:12 PM Guest Cheryl P.  says:

As a restaurant owner, I can understand the frustration with unsupervised & unruly children.  Parents need to start acting like parents and train children to be well behaved.  I believe that it the biggest part of the problem that I have seen.  We have children running around while waitstaff dodge them in an effort not to spill coffee or drop plates on them.  If the child were to get injured, you can already guess who would be blamed.  It wouldn't be the parents or the child!  Staff ends up taking charge and instructing the kids to go back and sit with their parents.  We are not there for child care!

I know little ones are sometimes unpredictable.  Just yesterday we had a family in with small children.  The little one was so loud, I could hardly hear to take the order at the next table.  Another table also made a complaint, not to me but I guess indirectly to the parent.  If the child is loud and connot be controlled, as a parent I would get my food to go and leave so as not to ruin everyone else's meal.

I love children and I compliment parents who have well behaved children.  Society is partially to blame as well because people do not want children disciplined yet we complain when they are out of control.

Thanks for letting me share from the other side.

Aug 6, 2011 10:23 AM Guest terri  says:

I work with children as a Physical Therapist and I am sorry to say that some of the children I treat do not have physical disabilities but lazy parents. THey sit propped in the corner of the couch watching TV and then grow into the video games never developing thier trunk muscles or coordination. While in the day cares I experience the children so hungry for physical affection that they run up to strangers and hug their legs. Others scream and carry on over the most basic of tasks. The art of manners, use of silverware and toileting are falling onto the daycare providers.

As a working mother I understand the great fatigue that comes with working then picking up the kids,grocery shopping,cooking, housekeeping, husband working long hours or multiple jobs... and the decrease in patience and time we have. Go somewhere public and listen to the parents of the misbehaving children... some are calm and correcting helping the children to mature, others bribe,scream,curse and berate the child and then give in to the childs demands so they don't have to deal with the child. It makes you want to swoop the child up. It makes me sick to think of what these children live with and are being trained up as.

Overall the courtesy and respect for others is declining in our parenting & in our youth. This is what I believe is a driving force in banning children from places or developing times for people to shop in peace.

I do not beleive this will lead to a complete ban of children from restaruants or theaters. It is not the fussy baby that people object to in my area, it is the old enough to know better children that are creating the unrest (and who's fault is it?).

Aug 6, 2011 2:32 PM Guest Carolyn M.  says:

Children ARE a blessing from the Lord. Unfortunately, our society is more concerned with caring for and training their pets than training their children. As a result, many children are not being trained as they should to know how to behave in these public areas. We can become offended by their behavior, but I think the more appropriate response is to have compassion for those children whose parents may not be accepting their responsibility as parents to train their children. And maybe even compassion for those parents whose parents didn't train them.

 

Denying children access to these areas won't help either them or their parents. It takes away the child's opportunity to learn, and it's giving the parents one more way of dodging their responsibility. I find I have far less patience with the child who's just throwing a fit than I do with one who is obviously tired or not feeling well. If they are throwing a fit in public, chances are they do it at home, too, and that's often a result of lack of discipline.

 

However, I do believe this move to have "child-free" places is also a reflection on our self-centered society and what's comfortable for "me." If you've never been there, you have no sympathy, let alone compassion, for those who are struggling with a child's behavior in public.

Aug 6, 2011 12:30 PM Guest Kathy  says in response to Mother Of Seven Blessings:
Very well said...just sayin'!
Aug 6, 2011 3:46 PM Guest Ruth  says:

I have seen a most disturbing trend in parenting,   Perhaps parents are so busy they no longer take the time to truly parent, or they don't know how.  I have three children and took care of most of my nephews and nieces.  They were taught what behaviours were and were not appropriate and to be aware of others needs around them.  If they were tired I would not make them trudge through a store etc, because it just would not work and not be fair to them, or those that would have to listen to their whining or crying.  However, I find that parents are not teaching their children how to be respectful of others.  They go into shops where there are many breakable items and they let them loose.  I have seen 10 year olds running around a ladies' apparel dept.  Parents no where to be found and I have had to speak to the children.  This does not make for a society that is welcoming of children.  It is not so much the children's fault as the inability or lack of care on the parent's part.  Being a parent is very hard work, as Dr. Dobson put it, "parenting is not for cowards", but I cannot think of any other job that is worth doing very, very well.

Aug 6, 2011 3:36 PM Guest Teri  says:
I truly adore children, with that being said, I can honestly say that I do not apreciate going out to a nice dinner or to see a movie only to be seated next to a disruptive child.  My husband and I took our two children with us everywhere, BUT we always came prepared with books, crayons and small toys to keep them entertained AND we made them mind!  And on the rare occasion that they might have been disruptive in any way, my husband and I would take turns taking them outside and let our spouse eat and then trade off.  My intolerance of children acting up in public isn't with the children but with their parents, whom for whatever reason do not take the proper measures to PARENT.  We have been to a church service once where the pastor had to ask that the parent of a very loud, misbehaving child to please take him out of the service.  Seriously, the pastor should not have had to make that request, the parent should have had enough sense to do so without instruction.  On, numerous trips to the grocery store I will hear a screaming child and when I finally come across the source of all the noise, there is the parenting just ignoring the child and simply shopping and pushing the basket.  Been there, PICK UP YOUR CHILD COMFORT IT AND SHOP WITH ONE HAND IF NECESSARY!  We have way too many families today that allow their children to "rule the roost", they would be so much better off being trained up in the way that they should go and taught some manners.  And all of us would be better off if all parents would respect those around them by making their children to be pleasant to be around.
Aug 6, 2011 4:42 PM Guest Tina  says:
I can see both sides of this debate. Typically I will try to be an encouragement to the parent or child in a difficult situation if I can. Children are absolutely a blessing, but I don't believe they belong at PG & R rated movies (for their own good) and why is it a common occurrence to see more and more  young children in restaurants at 8 and 9 PM or later - even on school nights? I think the very root of the problem in their behavior is due to a lack of responsible parenting. This is not always the case, obviously, because kids will be kids-unpredictable but today's parents allow them to be very disrespectful to and inconsiderate of others. I am not against a restaurant designating a certain night or particular hours as "no one under the age of....." because, sadly, it seems necessary. However, I think there is a much deeper issue and I am not exactly sure how we can fix it other than to be Christian role models and let children (and adults) know we behave a certain way because GOD says we are to do so!      
Aug 6, 2011 6:26 PM Guest Kay  says:
We, too, love children and feel they are a gift from God. We enjoy seeing families as a unit eating out in restaurants. We can all learn from children; at times it is very rewarding and a blessing and other times can be very upsetting, but we have the choice, as with everything in life, to either make the best of it or change the location of where we choose to eat out at and/or the time of day/week. We should not 'ban' children from society. If a couple decide to have children, they should be ready to be in control of and able to control the child or situation and always be thoughtful/aware of others feelings. (Maybe parents should have to pass a test in training/raising children in bad situations before being able to have them)
Aug 6, 2011 6:35 PM Guest Linda  says:

As a mother and grandmother I actually do like the idea of having a meal in a restaurant without screeming children. Small children like to move around and dislike being confined to a chair, so it is inevitble that they will cry if not throw a tantrum. It does ruin dinner for those around. If I wanted to deal with that during dinner, I would stay home and invite the grandkids over.

And what about the parents of the small children... they need a break once in a while, too.

Aug 6, 2011 7:48 PM Guest Shari  says:
I have noticed that when a child is acting up the parents don't remove the child from the public place.  When my children were little my husband would insist that if our children started to act up one of us would take that child outside as to not bother the rest of the people. It is the lack of respect adults are starting to have for others that is the poblem.
Aug 6, 2011 9:47 PM Guest Rhonda  says:
To be short and to the point, it is age discrimination and stereotyping of a large group.  Not "all" children are misbehaving and loud.  I think businesses should use a case by case to determine if the patron is causing enough of a disturbance to be asked to leave or be removed.
Aug 6, 2011 10:10 PM Guest Judy  says:

I think it's truly appalling to ban children just because they are children! It reminds me of the days when our black men and women were not permitted in a restaurant just because of their color. There is also a small town in Colorado not far from me that wants to discriminate against miners and not have to serve them. Where does this all end?! It's ridiculous!!

 

Childen need to learn how to behave in public and that is totally up to the parent to teach them this. Parents need to take that responsiblility. Start teaching them at home. If they are allowed to throw fits at home or are not taught manners at home, how will they know how to act in public? When children are tired, they are going to react, too. If you plan to go out, try to get your child to rest ahead of time. If you've been out all day and they are tired, maybe that isn't the best time to take them out to dinner.

Aug 6, 2011 11:21 PM toogimpy toogimpy    says in response to Me:

I think most people ‘get it’, even if it makes them uncomfortable. Nevertheless, since you ask and we are supposed to be prepared to answer such questions, I will try to explain how humanism relates to the issue. The issue of the blog post, by the way, is the upward trend of marketing child-free zones in otherwise public places. What parents teach, (or fail to teach), their children is definitely a contributing factor but not the issue.

Secular humanists deny the authority of God. Typically, they do not even accept that God exists. If they do entertain any notion of a god (or gods), it is not the relational God who is revealed in the Bible and it has no real relevance in their lives. That is convenient for their worldview because it gives them, (at least in the own minds), the authority to decide what is right and wrong and to judge where their own behaviors fall on that scale. They may, from time to time, go on about issues they feel are elevated above themselves “for the sake of humanity” and governed entirely by reason, but at the end of the day, without a higher authority to adjudicate differing views or by which to base ethics, it is the Self that they must satisfy. Whether it is for material gain, creature comforts, salve for their conscience, intellectual curiosity, or pride, the bottom line is they will seek to do what is right in their own eyes.

I maintain that the increased demand for child-free public places is at least partially due to the growth of humanism in our culture. Humanism exerts an upward pressure from both the “supply side” and the “demand side” of the issue.

Parents have a responsibility to teach their children many things, including how to be civil in public. And it seems there are more and more parents who do not fully honor their parental responsibilities. Responsibility descends from a higher Authority. It stems from a philosophy that humanists reject. Their course, therefore, is to suppress and resist responsibility wherever possible. So we should not be surprised that, with the increase of people embracing humanist philosophy, we would see a decline in parental performance relative to their responsibilities. To make matters worse, more and more new parents lack the parenting skills that their parents were responsible for passing along to them. So now we are beginning to experience the harvest from a growing, multigenerational snowball of humanist-guided parenting and all that follows from that. Let’s call this rising tide of misguided parents and children the “supply side” pressure to expand the availability of child-free public places.

From the other side of the issue, it seems there are more and more people who are either unwilling or lack the kind of compassion and forgiveness required to set aside the inconveniences that children sometimes visit upon their environment. That kind of love only comes through submission to a higher Authority. Again, a higher authority is a philosophical concept that humanists reject. Consequently, humanist philosophy does not empower or motivate them to reliably exhibit forgiveness or compassion greater than that required to assuage their conscience or bolster their pride. As the ranks of humanists increase, the degree of compassion and forgiveness exhibited will decline. This is how humanism expands the market pressures for more child-free public places from the “demand side” of the issue.

Now before anyone gets the idea that believers have it all together and never contribute to the market pressures driving this child-free trend, let me be clear that, as humans, we all harbor humanistic tendencies and we all fall short of “ought” sometimes. But, since believers are willing to submit to God’s authority, they will be equipped and empowered to suppress their human desires if they so choose. Unfortunately, people captured by the philosophy of humanism are guided to resist and suppress the only Authority that is capable of lifting them above their human condition.

My prayer is that the Lord will somehow use these postings to help people who are captured by philosophies like humanism to escape their captivity and find the relationship with God that He desires to have with them.

Aug 7, 2011 6:54 AM Guest Melissa  says in response to Carolyn M.:

There is a time and a place to take children out to eat.  I have 2 children of my own.  When we did take our children out to eat, we made kid friendly restuarant choices and we got them home before their 8PM bedtime.

I also drive a school bus, so I get to enjoy 70 loud children twice a day, plus 30-50 teenagers during the school year.

It is upsetting to me to see parents take their tired children out to a fancy restaurant late in the evening an expect them to act like little adults.  It's just not right.  It's torture for the children and upsetting to those around them.  I believe that if more parent took what's best for the children into consideration, the restuarants would not feel the need to ban children.  I believe the parental attitude that 'I want to go out and I will drag my children out whether they need to be in bed or not' is very selfish of the parents.

Aug 7, 2011 7:43 AM Guest Nicole  says in response to Susan:
I have 4 children; ages 7, 5, 3, and 7months. We eat out about once a week. We do our best to teach our children to behave and most of the time they do alright. However; there are times when they just won't settle down and are loud or running around. When that happens we remove them from the restaurant. One parent sits in the car with the misbehaving child while the other finishes dinner with the rest. It's the parents who ignore their misbehaving children and allow them to scream and run around that drive me nuts.
Aug 7, 2011 10:18 AM Guest Brenda  says:
Good discussion! When I first heard about this, I had two thoughts. Private sector businesses have the right to establish their desired clientele and should not be subject to government interference. I hope they continue to have this right as long as they are only discriminating on age. But, does this establish a fine line of discrimination? Who else will businesses try to lock out of their doors? Hmm...My second thought was of holiday dinners. Even families have a kids table so they can be noisy and the adults have their own table so they can enjoy conversations. So...parents shouldn't be bent out of shape when they see a sign saying no children. That business evidently doesn't need their money. Go down the street to someone that does. The bold exclusive business may change their policy if business is declining. Who knows? Children are a lovely blessing, by the way, however unpredictable.
Aug 7, 2011 11:11 AM Guest Cindy  says:

Banning young kids from a facility is discrimination in my opinion. Why not ban the loud mouth wonman or man who is also disturbing the peace? They're annoying too!  I agree kids should be taught to learn how to behave but part of the process is practice. We should all learn a little patience and maybe try to offer encouragement...at least us Christians should be doing this. But, parents should also have some consideration of others and take out the screaming baby until he/she settles down. It's just polite! I think if I owned a restaurant, I'd have a special seating area for young families. Or, like how some hotels have quiet floors. What a great idea, everyone is happy that way! I have three kids and have always treid to teach them how to behave in public, but that sometimes it's more easier said than done. Now that they're older they've masted that skill well, but in the younger years that wasn't always pretty! And lets just face it, young parents don't always know what they're doing! Have patience. Remember,some of these spoilled kids will grow up into spoiled teens and adults...who will we ban then??

Aug 8, 2011 8:27 AM Guest Allison W.  says:
Honestly I think this just proves even more how truly SPOILED we as Americans are!!!  We are so consumed with ourselves and what makes us feel good, happy, less stressed, etc. that we cannot even take a moment to realize how blessed we are!  There are lots of people in THIS country that cannot even feed their children, much less worry about taking them out to dinner and having some spoiled brat complain about the noise or the childs behavior!  Not to mention other countries where they do not even have restaurants to go out to eat, and they are worried about whether they will starve to death, be killed by disease that spreads in less fortunate war torn countries, or be killed by enemy fire!  Do not get me wrong, I am a mother of three precious gifts from God, and I totally believe that every parent should teach their children how to behave as well as to love one another as Christ loves us all!!  It is so sad for me to watch our society change, and lose what seems to be all family values.  I have to tolerate a lot and one good example is smoking in publc!!!!  I don't like the smell, and I do not want to breath it, nor do I want my children breathing it.  Smoking is bad for your health, children are NOT!  Another thing I have to tolerate is watching homosexuals make out in public right in front of my small children!  I truly wonder what would happen if I asked to have homosexuals banned from restaurants??  I am sure that would be considered "offensive".  I think people need to sit back and count all of their blessings instead of sitting around looking for things to complain about!
Aug 7, 2011 12:44 PM Guest David  says:
I personally disagree with such a policy. However, it's their right to serve whomever they want and to refuse service to whomever they want - that's what freedom is about. No one has the right or authority to force them otherwise. If I don't like it, I don't have to go those establishments - there are plenty of other places to choose from. If enough people don't like their policy, they won't go and they'll start losing revenue and change their position. That's how free-market economies work.
Aug 7, 2011 1:49 PM Guest Kathy  says:
This is history repeating itself, just in a different way - instead of locking up our undesirables, we are locking them out.  Families with small children are to be treated like blacks before equal rights?  What I'm seeing in so many of the comments is condemnation.  Anyone with kids knows meltdown in small children can occur for a number of reasons and it's almost never predictable.  Even the most well prepared parent who takes bottles, toys, books, coloring books, etc to a restaurant has had a baby who's melted down, a child who's bolted through the restaurant or who has dropped to the floor in a tantrum at a store.  The problem I'm seeing here is that no one wants to deal with it.  Based on what I'm reading, I'm a seeing a lot people who are annoyed, outraged, and expressing irritation at the parent and child, but who has actually tried to help one of these parents?  Most parents who's kids are misbehaving are just as mortified by their behavior as the people around them.  The problem is, they don't always know what to do.  If they discipline their child, someone else is going to be mortified and report them.  Parents are told to discipline by putting kids in time out - how do you time out a kid when you are in a grocery store with a cart load of groceries or in a restaurant when you've just placed your food order?  Instead of sitting there annoyed when the toddler at the table is crying - probably because they are starving and their food hasn't arrived, try offering the parent a fry for their kid.  If a kid is throwing a tantrum on the grocery store floor, walking by giving the parent an ugly glare doesn't help - maybe advise him/her that they should try telling their child bye and walking around the corner, or say something to the child.  Sometimes a word from a stranger does wonders.  If kids who should know better are running through a store, instead of being angry at the parent, stop the child and ask where their parent is and tell them that they should be shopping with them not running through the store or tell them if they break something, they are going to have to pay for it.  Instead of sitting there wishing the lady with the crying baby in the cart in front of you will get through the line and get out of the store quickly, try playing with the baby by jiggling keys, making faces or talking to the baby.  You can probably distract the baby long enough to make the checkout less stressful for everyone.  Banning children does nothing to help, and while we all would like everyone to behave in a certain way, it's a very unrealistic expectation.  I have 3 kids and each of behaves different.  As smaller childrent, I could take any one of them by themselves somewhere and they were good as gold, but taking 2 of them or all 3 of them together provides a different dynamic and different behavioral challenges.  Also, these "bans" aren't just impacting the "bad kids/parents" but all kids and their families, so even the "best" parents are going to be penalized too.   My kids are spread in age by 6 years from youngest to oldest.  Thinking about the "no kids under 6 rule, my oldest would be 12 before we as a family could go to that establishment - that's crazy.   Lastly, if this does continue, more kids are going to be put in potentially dangerous situations.  Think about the single parent who can only grocery shop a certain times because of their work schedule and if this is during the kid ban time, there is a risk that a child could be left in a locked car, home alone or with a sibling that isn't capable of caring for them.  Then what?  Whose fault is it going to be if that child dies?
Aug 7, 2011 2:09 PM einnA einnA    says:
I agree with childless restaurants and limiting the hours that children are permitted to be in restaurants.  When my children were young, my husband and I would get a sitter to enjoy a rare evening out.  Sometimes we would be seated near a loud or poorly behaved child.  It was annoying that I was paying a sitter to be with my children while I had to put up with an unpleasant environment at the restaurant or movie theater due to someone else's crying child.  My children are grown but I still encounter children that are ill-behaved.  I am surprised that kids are running and playing tag in the local library while their parents ignore the behavior.  I am disappointed that a child at a nearby table reaches over to grab my personal belongings off of my table while their parents are oblivious.  So I say 'thank you' to public establishments that are limiting the hours that young children may be in their restaurants and theaters.  
Aug 8, 2011 6:57 AM Guest Barbara P.  says:

I love children and have 4 great grandchildren whom I love dearly,but they don't mind their parents very wel. I don't babysit children that don't mind.

.  When my children were babies and cried in a public place I took them outside and feed them, changed them or fixed what ever the problem was and did not go back inside until the baby was quiet. As children they were well behaved and quiet or we went outside and I spanked them. They behaved the rest of the evening. They learned very quickly that when I said "do that again and you will be spanked" I kept my word.They were spanked.  They were well behaved out in public, at home, and at church and school..

Majority of the children in restaurants today not only scream, but argue and talk back to their parents, they walk around in the restaurant, up to other peoples tables. The parents must think this behavior is acceptable as they do nothing to prevent it. If this is the type of person they are, just imagine how the parent would behave if ask to control them or to leave immediately. I don't want confrontation between other people in the restaurant when I am trying to have a pleasant meal any more than I want to listen to the kids..

I think that perhaps if you can't afford a babysitter, then maybe it is stretching your budget to even eat out.

As for stores etc., I spend a great deal of time trying not to run over children that are running up and down the isles, or having to ask them to move to one side or the other in order to just walk down the isles. Some of them won't move when you ask them. They just stand there and give you a defiant look.

 

My vote is to ban them restaurants and have a certain time at other stores that they are not allowed.

Aug 7, 2011 3:52 PM Guest Julia  says:

I love children, have 3 grown, 1 grandchild and 1 more on the way. The problem is the attitudes of people who cannot tolerate anyone else. Also the way children are raised now they're not taught basic manners and morality and right and wrong are no longer existent. Look at the graphic tees girls, even babies, are wearing Diva, Princess, Drama Queen, etc. This is the attitude children are being raised with that they are priveledged and entitled.

It's sad that public places feel the need to ban small children, but there are times when we go out to a fancy restaurant for a quiet meal and someone's child ruins it by having a tantrum or running around and throwing food, etc. It's not the child's fault. It's the way they're raised. I was in a restaurant one day with my husband and the dad's were in the bar watching the game, the moms were at the table talking and drinking and the kids were running around climbing in the empty booths and making a lot of noise. The moms totally ignored it all. Sad. Take the kids to the park and let them run around, not a restaurant.

Generally speaking though, I would not support a trend toward child free restaurants, etc. It's a sad commentary on how much our society is devaluing life. Blessings...

Aug 7, 2011 4:41 PM Guest ruth  says:
training a child is what we are required to do by God.  Leaving them at home doesn't make them prepared for their future,  Children should be allowed in Restaurants, theaters, etc.... but parents need to parent.  A child will not wake up one day and be ready for society, they need to be introduced appropriately and trained how to act.
Aug 7, 2011 6:51 PM Guest Mama Baer  says:
How do we respect each other? I think the trend is that there is no respect for people any longer. I respect you so I will not bring an infant to the movie theater or restaurant. I love children too, but there are places that they are not comfortable in or too tired to be taken to -- so they stay home with mom/dad or other care giver. They grow up too fast and maybe we didn't get to go out much when our son was tiny, but I don't feel short-changed. They also need to be taken to family friendly places and be taught manners and how to respect others. If our son started acting up when we were out, I would try to get the ear of a clerk/waitress to hear what I told him -- "If you don't cooperate with us, the store people will ask us to leave" -- and then I would look at the clerk and say - right? And they saw it was a teaching moment for our son and would agree with me - that yes, children who did not cooperate with parents would have to leave. We hardly ever had to leave anyplace. You start young and make it fun to go places and respect others at the same time.
Aug 7, 2011 8:27 PM Guest Corina  says:
It is sad in our culture that children are not looked at as a blessing from God, but as a problem.  However, there are many parents who do not even attempt to control their children when they are out in public.  Children are not expected to be still when it's appropriate, and when they misbehave too many parents ignore it or reason with their children in public, rather than removing them from the situation.  I have had a parent tell me that others in a restaurant will understand if they have children, and those who don't, well, so what?!?  I'm very careful to tell my children before we go into a public place what is expected of them, and what the consequences are if they don't comply.  I want to enjoy a family dinner in a restaurant, and I have therefore taught my children how to act when we are there.  Yes, children are unpredictable, but we have "practiced" all of these scenerios at home, where we are careful to train them and expect them to act appropriately.  Because they have learned to be still and quiet for a time at home, it isn't so hard for them to act correctly out in a grocery store, restaurant, church, or anywhere else we decide to go.  All children are different, and some have a harder time being still, but all can be trained to do it, with patience and firmness.
Aug 7, 2011 8:48 PM Guest Renie  says:
My husband and I are "Baby-Boomers".  We've raised 2 children and have helped raise 4 grandchildren. We have never had to even consider weather or not to take our young children to dine with us. We knew our children's dispositions well, we knew which ones we could take only to fast-food restaurants and those we would feel free to take to a diner and those we would enjoy dinning at a fine restaurant with.  I really don't think the problem is so much with the children but with the lack of parental control that seems to be progressing at a horribly fast pace these days. Rudeness abounds in just about every venue. I am in favor of adults only restaurants.  There needs to be somewhere where people can go to relax and enjoy a nice evening without noisy kids disturbing the ambiance.
Aug 7, 2011 9:10 PM Guest Matt  says:

I have four children.  I believe that parents should do their part to keep their kids under control particularly when their children are interrupting those around them.  If necessary, a parent should leave voluntarily if the child is that disruptive.  I don't tend to be bothered by the children too often but am willing to accept others that are.  I find myself in awe of the blessing of children. For me, no other example of God's grace is more powerful.  I absolutely believe it is wrong to ban children from those places that are otherwise designed for family or like the grocery store are necessary for all of us to frequent.  I am so moved by the scriptures that speak of Jesus rebuking the disciples for turning the children away.  I believe this trend will further add decline to the view of a childrens worth.

Maybe as Christians, when we hear that baby screaming or that child acting out across the way or in the seat or the table next to us, we should say a prayer for them and their parent that their need is met rather than wishing them away all together.

Aug 7, 2011 9:12 PM Guest AM  says:

Kids are great.  I love them and they are indeed a blessing from the Lord.  I've been an elementary school teacher for 14 years as a result.  My husband and I, who have no children of our own, are blessed to interact with the children of our friends and relatives.  Admittedly, we are more blessed by those who provide their kids consistent, appropriate discipline. Nonetheless, we never go to movie theaters partly because of undisciplined children who behave poorly during movies.  We find it frustrating to go anywhere in public, whether restaurants, grocery stores, or anywhere else, where parents allow children to behave disrespectfully and disruptively.  Kids need to be allowed to be kids, but permitting them to maintain inappropriate behavior without correction is difficult to tolerate. It is also difficult to witness parents chastise children who are exhausted or who are hungry from a long day of shopping without a break.

It seems that a need for "child-free" restaurants or shopping hours has become necessary due to a failure of parents to be in tune with their children's needs for appropriate discipline, play time, sleep, etc.  While I think private businesses have every right to institute "no kids" policies, I would be horrified to find towns or states legislating such policies.

Aug 7, 2011 9:13 PM Guest Brenda  says:

     One thing that factors into "Childless" signs is the fact that many young parents are clueless on how to teach children to be self-controlled. The parents ignor screaming children, doing nothing to quiet them and let them know this is not acceptable behavior in public. Sometimes I can hardly wait to get out of a store or restaurant because of the incredible noise!  Yes, my children tried to throw a fit in a store, but after a quick trip to the car, they learned I would not tolerate that kind of behavior so they'd better not try it. Also, childdren need regular rest and meals on time. If they are tired and hungry, of course they will be cranky.

     On airplanes I know that little ones' ears can really hurt and infants can't control their crying. But 5 yr. olds kicking the back of your seat and yelling for 5 hour flights is intolerable. Parents are to blame more than the children, but I can understand the backlash from others.I have referred many young couples to the Focus on the Family website to get help!

Aug 8, 2011 7:32 AM Guest Ian C.  says:
I'm a Malaysian and I'm embarrassed that my country's airline is leading the charge in this!
Aug 7, 2011 11:58 PM Guest MK  says:

The utter lack of discipline that exists today makes being around most children a very unpleasant experience.  It's a shame that this will penalize the (few) properly raised and disciplined kids, too, but I have to say "Hurray!"  Most parents are just too uninterested in their children's behavior, unless it's going to cost them money.  I work, unfortunately, in a low-paying retail job, and it seems that at least 75% of the kids that come in the store are disruptive, and their behavior is ignored by their parents, or, at best, the behavior gets a "warning" which is no better than a bluff.  These parents never follow through, they just keep spewing threats that the kids know full well will never be acted on.

 

When I was a child, all it took was a certain look from one of our parents to settle us down!  And that's not because we were in any way abused - they very rarely spanked us.  We were simply raised without bluffing, and we knew "no" meant "no," and that if we got the "look," we were about to cross the line.  I feel like there should be a few kid-free zones in which to find refuge, given the uncaring attitude of so many parents today.

Aug 8, 2011 6:43 AM Guest Laura  says:

I think it's ok. I do believe the stage of life you were end will greatly determine one's reaction from such a thing.  I am a Christian homeschooling mother with 5 children, 4 of them now teens. I LOVE young children (especially babies) and have a degree in Early Childhood and Elementary Ed. When my kids were little i would have taken offense to this idea. But, now that I am at a different stageof life, I can understand and appreciate the concept. If I pay alot of money to go our to dinner, which is not often. I do appreciate the quietness of the atmosphere as much as the food being served.

Aug 8, 2011 7:04 AM Guest Brian  says:
I think that society has lost site of what is important.  There are good reasons to ban children from places and that is mostly because children aren't as disciplined as they use to be.  Granted children can be very unpredictable, but they can be raised in such a way that enables them to control themselves in public.  My 2 year old cousin knows that it isn't right to throw a fit in public because he was raised properly.  Sometimes the blame needs to fall on the parents and society as a whole.  What are we teaching our kids now a days? 
Aug 8, 2011 10:01 AM Guest Diane S.  says:
Children are a heritage and blessing from God.  Along with the privilege of having children comes the responsibility.   Unfortunately parents are not parenting!  Yes, there is the element of the "unknown" when taking small children out but I do not believe the occasional "melt-down" spills and "accidents" are what encourages intolerance.  With the exception of little babies, often parents allow their toddlers and young children to behave completely without structure or guidelines in public. There is a spectacle of "naughty" behavior that is disruptive and embarrasing.  As the program "The Nanny" indicated, often, it appears it is the parents who need the nanny and instruction not the children.
Aug 8, 2011 8:22 AM Guest Ginger  says:

I too am a mother.... however, I agree with a few here in that when we do get to go out I don't want to have children running amuck or hear a yapping, screaming child!  I also have seen where the parents just keep talking and ignore the child thinking he/she will quit crying.  It's okay if it works for them at home but out in public is not the time to do this at the expense of others. Bottom line is I do believe there should be child free times at restaurants especially!

Aug 8, 2011 8:53 AM Guest Brian  says:
Unfortunately it has to come to this due to some who can not control their children. Businesses have the right to cater to their clients. No Shoes, No Shirt, No unruly Kids, NO SERVICE!!! Works for me!!!
Aug 8, 2011 9:32 AM Guest Tina  says:
I love children. I have 4 nearly all grown children myself. The problem unfortunately is not the children. It is the parents that cater to every whim their child has and fail to teach them self control; thus the ensuing cultural trend of generations of kids, young adults and fully grown adults without self control of their desires. Our culture has run amuck with lack of discipline in all areas of life, social, sexual, economical, business, political etc.... It is this unfortunate reality that has driven some business owners to make this decision. Restaurants seem to have the worst case senerios with parents allowing young kids to run around, stand on their chairs, yell and scream at will, and make incredible messes with their food without the parents caring or respecting the establishment or the other patrons. If the owner were to confront this couple or kick them out of the restaurant, they may be sued. I am just as fed up and disgusted with this as anyone and I feel for the owner of the establishment. The same goes for retail stores. Kids are allowed to run around and touch everything resulting in loss of merchandise, cost to the owner plus risk of an injury law suit. It is a huge problem of disrespect and entitlement in our culture. But like any thing else, banning children at large will become a trend that is harmful to our families and our country. It will signal yet another step toward intolerance of anything that invades your personal space. It will reenforce the self-centeredness of the "me" culture we live in and push us further and further away from the Biblical command to look out for and take care of our brothers and sisters or even to reach out to lend a hand to those in need. I don't know what the answer is. But I do know that we are sinking faster and faster into a pit that only God can get us out of.
Aug 8, 2011 11:22 AM Guest Sip S  says:
As a Children's Pastor, I'm disturbed by this.  However, I've seen situations where the parent lets the child do whatever they want in a public place.  It is the parents who need the correction. I believe some of this is a result of a parentless generation due to both parents working.  Some is the culture.  Meltdowns will happen.  Especially babies.  Flying with babies is difficult enough. Now having to deal with a possible ban it will be more difficult.  Hope some airline out there sees this as an opportunity for a family friendly option.
Aug 8, 2011 11:28 AM Guest James S  says:
I think It is very displeasing to the Lord Jesus Christ considering what he did when his disciples rebuked the little children. He (instead) took them up in his arms and blessed them.
Aug 8, 2011 10:53 AM Guest Ruth  says:
Unfortunately too many parents do not require their children to behave when they are in public places.  I think that this may be more a reflection on how poorly many people parent these days rather than a general dislike of children or an attack on 'family'.  Having children is a wonderful blessing that too many people have used to try to feel love rather than give love....  I have a rule....  all children are mine and I love them - and I do not hesitate to verbally dicipline children that are not being cared for.  Too many parents want the child to love them and they 'spare the rod'....  their goal should be to raise a child that other people can love.  
Aug 8, 2011 12:21 PM Guest Kelli S  says:

Every person commenting made GREAT points! I think their can definitely be a balance. I was so relieved that when my boys were small, we could take them anywhere. A few times we had other patrons tell us that it was nice to see a family pray in public before we dove into the food and that our boys were well behaved. THEN the little girl came along and we couldn't take her anywhere! She was difficult and defiant in public. If I didn't want to deal with it at home, there was no way I would expect others to tolerate her behavior. Thankfully, it was short lived! I can empathize with parents who do want to have a night out as a family, it's a good thing but I don't think children should be banned just because they're not adults. Like most folks, I have no time for parents who let their kids run the show especially in public and I do think the management has the right and should say something when a situation is getting out of hand. Working in a salon and with how much those kids love to play on those chairs, I have had to play their parent many times.

To quote Linda earlier, I too think we are a dividid, anti-family, irritable, unforgiving, angry, selfish society! Banning kids at one end and worshipping them at the other is a perfect breeding ground for the next generation to be all of these things and worse! I shudder at the thought.

Aug 8, 2011 12:44 PM Guest Deborah E  says:
I have raised two girls and assisted in raising my grandchildren. we went out to eat with them from the time they could sit up, if they misbehaved we removed them from there. My husband and i eat out many times a week, and lately it has gotten so bad that we have had to leave two different places because of the screaming kids. what was bad the parents were egging them on and thought it was cute that they were banging on the table and shrieking. because of this i would love to have adult only places to eat. parents are really the issue, not the kids, if they were taught correctly then there would be no issue.
Aug 8, 2011 12:48 PM Guest Connie  says:

I have enjoyed many years teaching middleschool students and have raised two children of my own!  I love children!  I am retired from teaching and the only thing I miss about my job is the kids.

The problem, increasingly getting worse over the years, is the lack of discipline in the schools and in the home.  Just one undisciplined student can disrupt the learning of a classroom full of students.

This has caused a business in the Adirondacks to post a sign saying, "Unruly children will be given a latte and a free puppy."  We have heard business after business express their frustration about the behavior of unruly children.  In this age of 'entitlement' and selfishness, people are no longer concerned about 'loving God and  loving others.'  This might include taking responsibility for the behaviour of your children so that others can live in peace.

There are numerous verses in the Bible that address the importance of discipline!  Children want and need discipline so that they feel loved and secure.  We who are children of God receive the same from Him!  We have departed from the clear teaching of Scripture and are failing our children.

Aug 8, 2011 12:53 PM Guest Linda  says in response to Sarah:
I have had a mom breast feed her baby across the table from my teenage son.  Let's just say he was very uncomforable to say the least--as was I.  In church worship services there have been times when a child is crying or otherwise distracting, and the parent doesn't remove the child.  This detracts from my worship.  I know children are a blessing, but there are times when the "little blessings" need to be taken outside of the room until their emotions/behavior are under control.  It's how the unpreditable outbursts are (are not?) handled by the parents that annoys me.  If parents handled their children's behaviors in an appropriate manner, the childless times wouldn't be necessary.
Aug 8, 2011 4:05 PM Guest Marcus  says:
I have 4 children and we go out often as a family but I feel a business owner should be able to choose whatever he feels will bring him more business.  If what he chooses excludes me or violates my standards/principles then it's simple- he doesn't get my money.
Aug 8, 2011 5:36 PM Guest Jane  says in response to Marcus:
Woo hoo... i just learned our church will now have a 'family room' for familys that choose not to use the children's programs and want their kids in the service.  They can now all go to a big room, watch the service on a large screen, and enjoy their children at the same time... what a novel idea!
Aug 8, 2011 6:58 PM Guest Jon W.  says:
The mood in this Country is turned inside out. If some one don't want children in their business then I will stay out also.
Aug 8, 2011 8:22 PM Guest Cathie T.  says:

Do we christians reflect the heart of Christ toward children?  Receive them, love them, bless them.  They are people equal in value to others.  I definitely would not go to a place of business that refused to serve other groups of people, so I wouldn't support any that are prejudiced against our most precious blessings.  This trend is reflective of our 'culture' - despising what is most sacred to our Lord.

Aug 9, 2011 9:44 AM Guest Lynda  says:
I love children, have none of my own but have around 80 nieces and nephews, am a home care nurse who takes care of chornically ill children.  Am against abortion for any reason as I feel that it is murder in the most horrible degree.  However, if parents have screaming, rowdy children they can't or won't control when they take them out to eat, I don't appreciate being in the same resturant as them.  No, I don't think the children should be ban I just the parents should think of other people.
Aug 9, 2011 10:07 AM Guest Dawn  says:
I think this sort of thinking is one of the results of PC parenting.  When our rights to dicipline our children have been dimished and the attitudes of our permissive society have permeated our churches, our schools, and our homes we should expect that children are out of control.  Although our children have had their moments, it is up to me, the parent to make sure that we are not disturbing the other people around us, and to vacate if we are.  There are many sacrifices we must make as parents. That's ok in my book.
Aug 9, 2011 10:21 AM Guest Ariel R.  says in response to Ann:
Yes yes yes! I am 18 and not married and do not have children. I was raised in a Christian family and look forward to having my own in three or four years. For all of my high school years, I worked in a casual Mexican restaurant as a waitress, and there is NOTHING worse than having bratty kids running around. I almost tripped on one once carrying three hot plates. This is not only inappropriate and disrespectful, it's downright dangerous! I think the idea of child-free public places is a good choice to be available for those who might want it. It reminds parents and children that the world does not revolve around them, and it might provide some inspiration to be better-behaved. For both parties.
Aug 9, 2011 10:22 AM Guest lisa  says:
I don't have a problem with some restaurants and other businesses being childfree.  There will be plenty of businesses that will cater to families.  I commented to a friend the other do, "why do people take babies to the movies?".
Aug 9, 2011 11:47 AM Guest Stacey T.  says in response to lisa:

We have 4 precious children, now ages 16, 13, and 10 year old twins. We have always ,from the time they were babies, taken them to restaurants, stores, church, etc. We have trained them how to behave in public places and that running, screaming, being loud and boisterous is for outdoors!! If my children acted up and distracted others in a restaurant or store, we carried them to the bathroom for a serious talk or attitude adjustment which ALWAYS worked. It let them know that we would not tolerate bad behavior!! We love our children so very much, but part of loving them is training them in the way they should go!!! Letting kids throw fits and acting like you have no control over them will not serve your children well .

As far as a childless restaurant or store, I think it is fine . In our many years of parenting, we had to try to squeeze in a date night about every 6 months! It never failed that we would get to a restaurant and be seated next to 2 or 3 screaming , fit throwing children!! We had just left our kids at home to have a little adult conversation and a little quiet!! People need to understand that letting children rule the home and every situation you are in is what has caused these rules to be set in public places!

Aug 9, 2011 3:29 PM TessaFOTF TessaFOTF    says:

Several readers have alerted us to the fact that the original news report  concerning Whole Foods and “childless shopping hours” was not accurate, and we’d  like to offer a clarification.  Several Whole Foods stores are providing parents  the option of shopping without their children; however, store employees are  watching and caring for their little ones during that time.

 

Tessa

FOTF Moderator

Aug 9, 2011 11:04 PM Guest anna  says:

I'm not positive, but it seems a lot of the issues I see in restaurants and stores is that the parents aren't parenting.  Some days it seems every store I go into has a crying/whining child that is not being dealt with.  Whether the child is throwing a fit or whining and crying because of tiredness, feeling sick, or because the child didn't get the toy he or she wanted, whatever the case, I see more and more parents not handling the situation well.

 

Some reasonable suggestions:

 

If shopping, a parent could put their cart aside, and step outside of the store to tend to their crying child (or sit in the car), leaving shoppers to shop in peace.

 

At a restaurant, taking the crying child to the restroom to tend to would be a good option, allowing the other restaurant patrons to eat in peace.

 

On an airplane, perhaps they could designate a room for crying children, like a "cry-room" at a church, where the parent can tend to the child away from the rest of the passengers. 

 

For whatever the reason the child is crying, I think a parent should be aware of their surroundings and give other patrons a break if at all possible.

Aug 10, 2011 10:44 AM Guest Patrice J  says:

I think that is the problem though, many parent's have such a lax idea of discipline and no reguard for other people they don't remove the child from a situation. we went to see a family movie and a family brought a tiny baby. After the movie started the baby began to cry. The parents handed the baby back and forth and shhhed for a while. Finally my 8 year old yelled -- would you please take that baby out I can't hear the movie. All this got was a dirty look from the Dad and the Mom saying "we paid for this movie too" My son was taken out and told that was not the way to handle the situation. Fianlly after a scene and some very inappropriate words the Dad walked out with the baby -- and came back in 5 minutes later when he was asleep.

 

Most People just don't think of others anymore. Not everyone wants to listen to your child whine, scream and carry on in any public place. Yes the answer is to walk out but that would be an inconvience to the parents.  Our son has special needs and I go out of my way to make sure his behavior doesn't bother people. There are times i would like to go out to dinner and not have to see children acting up. We have turned into a very me centered society. Children are not disciplined the way they were years ago. There is little  respect for adults and adult times and spaces. Well behaved children act up at times -- I think its the parents that need to stand up and be parents and take responsibliity for what is happening not just banning children.

Aug 10, 2011 12:04 PM Guest Stephanie  says:
I hope this trend does not catch on and I would not give a business that chooses that policy my money.  I do not see how it can line up with considering children a blessing and personally I have been annoyed much more often and more by adults on cell phones
Aug 10, 2011 12:04 PM Guest Stephanie  says in response to Mom23:
Please let them know how that impacted you, I would have laughed too.
Aug 10, 2011 5:01 PM Guest Martha  says in response to Roger:
I totally agree Roger.  Isn't it great where we live in a nation that someone can see a need and make their livelyhood by meeting that need.  I love children (though I don't have any of my own) and it's nice to see that people with children are open to this idea.  And as Roger pointed out - if we have too many child free establishments, someone will start opening child-friendly ones.
Aug 10, 2011 5:26 PM Guest Mary  says:

I absolutely agree with child-free restaurants.  Many times my friends and I have gone out for a nice dinner only to have it ruined by a screaming child seated at the next table.  The parents choose to ignore the noise and the rest of the people in the restaurant have to suffer.  I have no problem with well behaved children but those who are screaming and running around with no control should not be tolerated.  Adults have rights too and should not have to be subject to properly behaved children or screaming babies.  My parents did not take us to sit down restaurants until we learned to behave in public.  At the very least, couldn't restaurants seat people with children away from couples and other adults?  It is very annoying to be seated and then have a noisy family seated at the next table - especially in an empty restaurant!

Aug 10, 2011 6:32 PM Guest Colleen  says:
     I agree with everyone above. I have one and I love her with all my heart. But there are times when she is not with me and my boyfriend and I go to dinner for a quick time and it is not that way. So I feel they need to make certain nights child free nights. We as parents also need a little time alone. I get no time alone. I'm a single mom 24/7.
Aug 11, 2011 8:47 AM Guest bethy  says in response to Nick:

Nick -- I totally agree w/ the movie analogy.  I am a step-parent of a young girl (now 12) whose mom let her see R-rated movies regularly from the time I knew her (age 7).  There would be an uproar if their children couldn't see a movie THEY deemed ok to see. Parents would say it's "controlling" to not allow their child in.  I personally don't even like alot of the PG-13 choices, where the content is way beyond that which a 13 year old should be seeing.

 

However, in a restaurant, the yelling/screaming/running around turns customers ($$$) away, esp. the older empty-nesters who would not have tolerated such behavior.  It adds cost for cleanup, breakage, and irritation.  I don't think all restaurants will follow it...just the ones which are probably too pricy for children to have their own meal.

Aug 11, 2011 9:55 AM Guest Cherie  says:
The problem is not the children but rather the parents who ignore their children and are too lazy to discipline, teach, and guide. I understand some of the business establishments' plight and they have the right to establish their own guidelines. I've witnessed parents letting their 4 year old girl hit a customer sitting behind them in a booth with her toys, the menu, then spit & hit the other child, then break dishes at the table, spilling out condiments, all the while the parents did NOTHING. Parents that let their young children run free in places don't understand how dangerous that is for the children and the establishment could be liable if people got hurt. My husband was on his way to a business meeting in a suit on a plane (after working 24 hours) and had politely asked the mother sitting two seats over to control her toddler (who was between them thinking it was funny to try to get food, etc on his suit) and the mother did nothing but had an "attitude"...apparently she had given the toddler a bottle full of coke which sprayed all over my husband's suit, etc when the child shook it up over him...he had no time to change but had to go right into the meeting...When parents don't take the time and spend the energy to discipline, guide and teach their children it's like they are saying that they don't care enough about their children to teach them to be decent human beings to ensure their success later in life or something. We are merely seeing the effects of erroneous & deceptive worldviews of relativism, post modernism, political correctness at work. Who's going to speak up for the biblical worldview in a way that is loving and culturally relevant without compromising the message? Until this happens, I support child-free businesses doing what's best for their business.
Aug 11, 2011 10:02 AM Guest Nan  says:

I'd like to see a little more historical perspective before anyone calls this an anti-child/anti-family trend. Remember that in most middle class families and all those of the upper classes in England and most of Europe before WWII, very small children (babies and toddlers) ate in the nursery with their nanny. Older schoolchildren would usually eat in either the nursery or the schoolroom with the nanny or governess with occasional exceptions for special events. Only a young lady who had been presented to society would be included with her elder brothers at any dinner parties her parents held. Children were NEVER taken out in the evening to venues where adults congregated (theater, opera, restaurants, and the like) so this issue would have not arisen.  If you doubt it, read anything by Jane Austen; Peter Pan makes reference to Wendy having to leave the nursery and start preparing to come out in society as an adult.

Aug 11, 2011 4:57 PM Guest Cindy  says:
I have 2 great kids that I definitely consider a blessing.   We didn't have a lot of money when they were small so this wasn't really an issue for us.  Having said that, I think a  bigger concern is when parents don't expect their kids to behave and expect other people to just accept it. If their child is acting up, they should remove the child (if possible,  not an option on an airplane ;-)) and not just continue to subject everyone else to their disruptive behavior.  Too many parents just let them run wild or misbehave and are inconsiderate of the other patrons.   This is just another example of the non discipline/don't hurt their self esteem philosopy of parenting that is creating self absorbed people that have no consideration for others.
Aug 11, 2011 6:54 PM Guest Suzanne H  says:
I have children also and remember those days. i would take my food to go or get delivery till my child acted properly. I am also a server in a restaurant and have to say that there is a time when parents should take their child outside to calm them down after screeming for 20 minutes straight or ask for the food to go. Also tiding up after your children would be nice since we do not get paid to clean up after your children, but have to clean it up.
Aug 16, 2011 8:53 AM Guest Mary Ann  says in response to Susan:
YES!!!  Parenting begins at home.  We are blessed with 3 beautiful children; 18, 16, and 11.  My husband and I had very few dinners away from home when the children were younger, however, we had many opportunities to teach them how to behave at the meal table, regardless of whether it was at home, at the Grandparents', or whereever.  I recall times where my husband or myself had to remove one of the children from the resturant before they became a nuisance.  We were always able to calm them down and return to our meal without having disturbed other patrons.  Nowadays, we have the opportunity to eat out more often, thanks to God.  When our children are with us and they observe an unruly child, they don't hesitate to comment their annoyance and frustration of the situation.  This gives me the chance to remind them of the importance of "training up a child in the way they should go." 
Aug 12, 2011 1:16 PM Guest c. c.  says:
I am thrilled, elated, and just simply beside myself thinking about the joyous concept of being able to go to a restaurant, movies, nail salon/spa, and yes even the grocery store without children present.  I have two, mine are grown and well mannered.  When they were younger, even they didn't want to go to places with ill-mannered, screaming children.  You can't blame the children, after all they do learn from their parents.  If parents would take the time to teach their children at home, they would then be prepared for going out of the house.  You cannot take a child that has been allowed to run all day long at childcare, to sit in a restaurant and know how to act.  Training of a child covers all facets of life, not just bottle and toilet training.  As many others have stated, a child is a gift from God as is all of what we have.  What a shame that so many people are so irresponsible with gifts.
Aug 14, 2011 1:20 PM Guest Paula  says:
There have been times when I wish the establishment I was visitng had that ban in force. If parents would parent, then there would be no need for restaurants to ban children. My father always told my sister and I, children are to be seen and not heard.
Aug 15, 2011 8:03 AM Guest Jacqui  says:
Children can be loud and messy, but life is loud and messy. I have always made sure my children were well-behaved when we went out to a restaurant, or I would take them out of the restaurant and they missed a treat.I think that parents should train their children to act appropriately. I like the previous post that reminded us that Jesus said, "Suffer not the little children to come to me." When we look a kids like Jesus does, it isn't hard to "tolerate" them.
Aug 15, 2011 11:07 AM Guest Charlotte  says:

I believe this trend has more to do with the lack of teaching discipline to young children by their parents than a trend against having children.  Parents today do not discipline their children or teach them how to sit at the table and behave until the adults are finished dinner.  I have nothing against children in restaurants, grocery stores or movie theatres as long as they are old enough for such venues and as long as their parents watch them and make them behave appropriately.  Parents seldom care for constructive criticism when it comes to their children so other patrons of these businesses are at a loss for a solution when children ruin a good time.

Economic times have forced consumers to choose carefully what they spend their money on for entertainment and social gatherings and therefore don't want to risk children ruining their hard earned entertainment/social events.

Aug 15, 2011 3:57 PM Guest Rubye  says:

I do not believe in age discrimination, young or old.  I do believe children should be taught acceptable behavior in shopping areas and eating establishments.  Parents should choose carefully where they take their children, especially to dine, if they are going through periods of disturbing behavior, as can occur for a span of time - I speak from experience, I have 2 sons and we ate mostly at McDonald's, Krystal, etc., or home, during their primary years (0 - 9).  Mothers shop during school hours if possible and will be accompanied by their infant child.  I notice Trader Joe's actually is child friendly, has child size carts the little ones love, and again these require parental supervision so they do not run playing with the carts.  So far so good.

Aug 16, 2011 6:56 AM Guest Jeanne  says:
Children are a blessing from the Lord and I love them. The problem in our culture is not the children, but parents who allow their children to be "in charge". This is the problem in restaurants & in other public places where people are fed up with irresponsible parents. We are fed up with parents who don't parent their children but allow their children to be the parents. I realize that there are times when children can be unpredictable and it is uncontrollable for a parent. But more times than not, I have observed that unruly children are allowed to go on and on and on with their bad behavior while the parent turns a blind eye or worse, chuckles as if it is cute. The polite thing to do when your child is screaming at the top of his/her lungs is get up and take them out of a public place and deal with it. We're raising a generation of kids who truly believe that the universe rotates around them and that they are entitled to behave any way they choose without consequences.Sadly, I agree with child-free times and places. We don't live in a world anymore where children or adults are mannerly.
Aug 16, 2011 6:49 PM Guest Candy  says:

When I was growing up, my dad was in the restaurant business and our family would often go out to sit down restaurants to eat.  I remember going to a local restaurant when our kids where young (over 20 years ago) and watching the manager visit every table, but ours.  The kids were very well behaved.  We never went back there again.

But, recently it seems that more and more people aren't disciplining there kids and let them run wild, making excuses for their bad behavior rather than taking the time and being disciplined enough themselves to train them.

I don't blame restaurants for not wanting these "kids" as customers.    

Aug 17, 2011 6:44 PM Guest Margo  says:
It's quite startling and alarming, and I agree with you.  In our society, when we label something such-and-such free (sugar-free, smoke-free, cholesterol-free), it is always, always indicative of something harmful and dangerous and unwanted.  Now, no one is outright saying that about children, but by labeling certain places and times as child-free, they are allowing for that sort of free association and implication to occur in peoples' minds.  Frankly, it's a great insult to children, who Jesus, by contrast, blessed, and said that of such is the kingdom of Heaven.  Putting any other human group in front of "-free," I find it hard to imagine that anyone would tolerate it - - women, men, teen girls, teen boys, seniors, etc., etc.  Just as with abortion, it is an innocent and helpless group that does not have its own power or autonomy or voice **or its own buying power**  that is being targeted.  For shame!
Aug 18, 2011 5:32 AM Guest Angie  says in response to Agnes:
I agree with everything you said.  The LORD didn't bless us with children but I've worked with them for 20 years & I love them dearly.  Personally I don't think the children are the real problem, it's the parents.  Kids are going to cry, throw food etc. but it's the parents response to these actions, or should I say lack of response that has a lot to do with this.  When I see a child out of control & the parents acting like they don't notice I just want to shake them! - not the child    I've been on a flight before where I was sitting in front of just such a parent.  I had a migraine size headache by the time we landed from listening to the mother threatening the child with discipline but never following through.  It is hard for me to understand why this type of parent doesn't see what they are really teaching their children & how the child is going to suffer in every area of life.  ie.  How is the child going to learn in school if they can't sit still for 5 min. and don't have respect for  kind of authority.  How are they going to keep a job or hold a marriage together if they always have to have their way.
Aug 18, 2011 11:14 AM Guest maryann a.  says:

It happened to me. While shopping with my two daughters and two grandchildren we stopped in a quaint restuarant for lunch.  We were greeting coldly and told they did not have children seating.  At first I felt insulted but then thought " How sad for you". I will never use your services for my family or business.  It would be wise for establishments to think twice.  Yes , children are a blessing and one of my favorite passtimes is out for lunch with my family. 

Aug 20, 2011 8:30 AM Guest Sally  says:

When I was growing up you rarely saw an entire family eatting out. Today restaurants are full of families,I don't really feel people object to children being at a movie or a restaurant, the problem lies in parents who do not take those around them into consideration. No one cares to hear a fussing child or screaming child when they are trying to have a pleasant evening. I fell it is rude to subject those around you to this. When our children were small and they were acting up in public we left the place and got our food to go or we stepped outside to calm them. We did not subject everyone else to their behavior. It seems that so many parents think well if I have to deal with it so do you. How about staying home until your children learn how to behave or are old enough to be in a public setting without throwing a fit ,when they do not get their way. I honestly feel that we don't have a society that doesn't tolerate children as much as parents who do not parent. The children run the family instead of the parents, it is child centered parenting instead family centered. No one want's to stay home anymore and raise their children. Instead we have families running around constanly with very little structered home time. You certainly cannot blame the child or the public when you have failed to parent and discipline your children.

Aug 22, 2011 7:38 AM Guest Janet  says:
I love children myself but unnfortunately alot of younger parents do not discipline there children and their behavoir is awful on weekends.  when me and my husband go out to eat after a hard work week we want to enjoy peace and quiet and be able to talk not listen to screaming kids.  They should try to have a separate section for adults,  And when shopping at Walmart at night when kids should be in bed they are screaming throughout the store and crying.  these kids should be home in bed.  when my kids were younger and we had the money to eat out I was always extremely careful to be sure they didnot bother others and were quiet.  Unfortuanetly alot of parents just arent considerate of others anymore.
Aug 21, 2011 10:40 AM Guest Teb  says:

I actually think it's a good idea.  If I want to spend quality time with my wife at a restaurant, I would prefer not to have to deal with children interrupting an expensive, intimate evening.  Of the millions and millions of restaurants out there, I see no problem in having an "adult only" place to enjoy a quiet meal.  With today's "tolerance" of unruly children and the inability of most of the public not willing to act like parents to their children, it would be a welcome relief to have some other place to insulate oneself from the growing spector of noise, unruliness, and general disregard for other people.

Aug 24, 2011 3:06 PM Guest Lila  says:

It seems to me that yes, these businesses are responding to a devaluation of children in society, but not so much in the way some might jump to conclude.  Sometimes we Christians are the quickest people I know to jump to a conclusion or judgement without stopping to think objectively first.  We need to be more careful about that because it's an embarassment to all of us when we throw our God-given logic out the window.  I'm speaking toward myself as well here too.  We all need to be slower to anger and slower to speak.

 

The world has placed less and less value in its children for decades -- sending them off to be cared for by strangers from babyhood to 18, not putting aside quality time for them, not having patience to listen to them and see the world through their perspective, etc etc..  In essence, we, as a society, are raising obnoxious, bratty kids.  Restaurants and businesses have to find a way to deal with the hoolagans we're bringing to them.  Granted, some babies and toddlers are just born difficult and fussy.  My first was like that.  So I didn't take him anywhere that he'd be disturbing others.  A lot of kids under 6 throw tantrums and misbehave, though, because their parents have given them rule over the family.  My husband and I help with the kids' programs at church, and even the 10+ year olds from "good godly families" are horribly disrespectful and out of control.  A restaurant owner may or may not love kids, but they still have to consider what environment they're offering to all of their customers.  You can love the kid and still turn them away at the door, based not on seeing kids as "lesser" but on the fact that their parents let them become monstorous either by allowing someone else to raise and guide them, not disciplining them consistently themselves, or usually both.

Aug 29, 2011 7:54 AM Guest Kathleen  says:

Hi, I am not opposed to children in restaurants, theaters, etc. BUT in a nice restaurant or any in a theater when some couples are out for an entertaining evening disruptive children can be a problem. Today's parents are quick to pick up the little ones and take them out for awhile to quiet them down. They sit there and let the child cry. I have seen this happen time and again. I even seen couples let their children run around their table at restaurants and thinks it is cute, when they are putting their children at risk of being injured and the wait staff at risk of being injured while serving food or carrying empty dishes to the kitchen.

So, there is a time and place for families and I don't fault some restaurants or theaters from not letting children in their places of business. It is not that they don't like children, it is just that they would like their place to be a place where couples can enjoy  a quiet dinner and a movie without disruption. That is not so bad.

Even parents who leave children at home would like a quiet evening without having to listen to someone else's child be disruptive.

There is a time and a place for families to enjoy themselves and for couples who want some time without children.

Aug 30, 2011 2:39 PM Guest Patty  says:

I love children but absolutely don't think they need to be in all places at all times.  There's nothing wrong with childless restaurants or movies or even shopping areas.  And nothing can be more frustrating than to be on a plane, where you absolutely can't get up and leave, when there is a crying child.  With less and less parents being more and more neglectful when it comes to controlling their children's behavior in public this may be a trend.  Again, it's not the responsibility of the place but of the parents.  Afterall, wasn't it the church who first started "encouraging" parents to leave the children in the nursery and childcare facilities, rather than bring them into the sanctuary?

Sep 8, 2011 3:59 PM Guest Kara D.  says:
I believe there is a time and place for this although I can see how it could be taken too far.  Some places are not an appropriate atmosphere for children and if some nicer restaurants decided to be kid-free that would not offend me.  Honestly as a Christian community sometimes I think we have a growing trend toward the opposite direction.  With the influx of homeschooling and child-centered homes parents are spending more and more time with their children.  Homeschooling and teaching your children about Christ is invaluable.  I am finding so many Christian parents, especially moms, feel guilty for being away from there children and no longer have a parent-centered home.  This creates an environment with no need for babysitters and no time to invest in your marriage.  Parents have less and less boundaries of when to include their kids and when to to not include them.  So I think kid-free times are very valuable for your relationship and underrated among Christians.  On another note we have been to movies that were PG-13 where we were enjoying a date night however were not free to fully enjoy it because parents who did not have the discretion to choose another movie brought their conversing toddler to see the age inappropriate movie.  These were not likely the parents of spoke of earlier but another example of an okay scenario in which kid-free entertainment could be enforced.
Sep 12, 2011 6:16 AM Guest Lisa  says:
I am the mother to 3 beautiful, and VERY active boys, and also a former school teacher.  I love children!  However, I do appreciate a quiet restaurant when going out on a date with my husband, and would also love quiet shopping hours, so that I could think more clearly.  While I could see how many people could take "no child" areas as offensive, I think that it's okay to not have kids have to be everywhere.  I also think that no kids in first class might not be a bad idea, as the tickets are sooo expensive.  (However, the extra room to spread out woud be nice. :)  )  All that being said, the pastor at our church has recently made several comments from the pulpit that noisy children should be placed in the nursery or taken out until they can calm down.  Imagine my horror, when he chose to point this out to us as we were entering the church and my son was asking a question about the holy water font.  :)  My husband and I are wondering how are we supposed to teach our sons how to behave in church, if we can't have them practice every week.  Last week, we packed a bunch of "church books" which really seemed to help.  So, we shall see how this week goes.  :)
Sep 26, 2011 8:57 AM Guest Marian  says:
I've raised 3 , have four grandchildren, taught Sunday School to 4th graders for 9 years, and I love kids.   However, We've raised ours.  I think it should be up to the business owner first of all.  2ndly.. It is not really the children, it is the parents that refuse to make them mind.  So I feel we have the right to a shopping spree without children... because of the parents, not the kids. *** and likewise, eating out as well.  My husband and I pay the extra $3.00 for the Cinemax theatres for the 21 and up seats.  It is great!
Nov 12, 2011 11:15 AM Guest Melissa  says:
I understand everyone who has a desire to have some peace & quiet at times. But I am always concerned when we start total bans,because when we do ,what is next? I think a better answer might be to divide the seating areas into family & couple areas, if people wish to have a quiet dinner. I have actually always struggled with the no kids at weddings. You can always opt to leave your own child at home ,if you wish. I think we get too caught up in the "perfect" wedding, the "perfect" meal out, the " perfect" whatever. & THAT my friends, is not real life.

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