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A Conversation with an Atheist

Posted by Jim_Daly on Sep 22, 2009 10:28:27 PM

Comedian and illusionist Penn Jillette amazes audiences with his slight of hand tricks and such routines as the “Magic Bullet.” For more than a decade, he’s worked his magic six nights a week in Las Vegas with fellow magician Teller. Both members of the Penn & Teller duo are gifted performers who also happen to be advocates of atheism—the belief that there is no God.


For his part, Penn would be the first to admit that he can be crass, vulgar, and unapologetically opinionated about his lack of belief in God. Not surprisingly, Penn has leveled a number of hardcore attacks against Christianity. One particular Rose trick.jpgrant posted on YouTube, “The Bible is Bulls—t”, has garnered more than 1.4 million views since its release several years ago. And, when signing autographs, Penn typically adds the comment “there is no God” adjacent to his signature.


Like I said, the man is outspoken. This might surprise you, I like that about Penn.


While he and I hold very different views about the existence of God, I appreciate the fact that Penn is transparent about what he believes—or doesn’t believe. Penn refuses to make his convictions palatable in order to be liked, nor is he worried about offending people when he defends his atheism.


That said, an interesting thing happened back in December of 2008. In this YouTube clip entitled "A Gift of a Bible," Penn had an encounter with a “big guy” who was waiting off to the side in what he called the “hover position” after a show. You know, just lingering, waiting for an opportunity to speak with Penn once the crowd dwindled. When the coast was clear, this unnamed audience member approached. Penn describes what happened next:


[The audience member] said, “I was here last night at the show and I saw the show and I liked it.” He was very complimentary about my use of language, and said nice stuff. And then he said, “I brought this for you,” and he handed me a Gideon pocket edition of the Psalms. He said “I wrote in the front of it, and I wanted you to have this. I’m kind of proselytizing.” And he said “I’m a businessman, I’m sane, not crazy.” And he looked me right in the eye as he spoke.


It was really wonderful. I believe he knew that I was an atheist. But he was not defensive and he looked me right in the eyes. And he was truly complimentary, not in any way empty flattery. He was really kind and nice and sane and looked me in the eyes and talked to me, and then gave me this Bible.


Pause there for a moment.


Did you notice something Penn repeated three times? He was apparently touched by the fact that this businessman “looked me right in the eyes.” I can only guess that what Penn saw there was unconditional love and acceptance, not judgment over his atheism. What resonated even more with Penn was the fact that this individual made sharing his faith an urgent priority. Penn continued:


And I’ve always said that I don’t respect people who don’t proselytize, I don’t respect that at all. If you believe that there’s a heaven and hell and people could be going to hell or not getting eternal life or whatever, and you think it’s not worth telling them this because it would make it socially awkward—and atheists who think people shouldn’t proselytize, just leave me alone, keep your religion to yourself, how much do you have to hate somebody to not proselytize? [emphasis added].


How much do you have to hate somebody to believe that everlasting life is possible and not tell them that? If I believed beyond a shadow of a doubt that a truck was coming at you—and you didn’t believe it, that truck was bearing down on you—there’s a certain point where I tackle you. And this [eternal life] is more important than that. 


Bravo, Penn! I can’t say I’ve ever heard the call to share our faith articulated more dramatically than that, can you? Isn’t it time we made the most of the opportunities which come our way to tell others about Jesus?

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Sep 23, 2009 8:03 AM dmhcountrygirl72 dmhcountrygirl72    says:

Nobody respects someone who says one thing and does another - I like this and think it is very well said.  Will have to keep Penn in our prayers -

Sep 24, 2009 6:41 AM Guest krhard49  says:

As a sixty year old atheist who has been dealing with these issues for at least forty years, I find the oncoming truck analogy interesting but unconvincing.

 

This analogy works only if the non-believer is pictured as an individual standing in the middle of a road and the believers as ndividuals standing on the side of the road, yelling about the oncoming truck.  Both the person in the middle of the road and the people beside the road agree on the nature of the immdiate threat, the recognized fact that the oncoming truck will end our physical existance in this world.

 

Very few of the people standing at the side of the road are yelling that it is possible to avoid the immediate threat.  Also, given the individual's free will, each of the by-standers recognize his/her inability to physically pull the non-believer out of the path of the truck.  The foreseen collision is inevitable; even the mass of the people on the side of the road recognize the inevitability of physical death.

 

Realizing their individual and collective limitations, the members of the crowd by the roadside are putting up a cacophany, yelling at the person in the road that he/she will survive the inevitable collision in some unagreed upon, possibly unspecified form.  The basis of the noise is some need, hope, and unsupported faith that the survival is true.

Sep 28, 2009 12:08 PM Guest Rick L.  says:

I think your missing the point. We atheists are not crying out for Christians to be really concerned for our souls and to begin evangelized 24-7, just so we can really believe you...because you finally did.

 

No, we already know you don't really believe in Hell, not really, not 100%! And there's a good reason why. Yes, one is because there is no Hell, but the other one is because the Evangelical leadership and their partners in Corporate America would not be well-served by a true, 100% belief in Hell. No, what they want is for you to have just enough fear that there MIGHT BE a Hell, that's all.

 

I've actually written a book on this topic--"Hell? No! Why You Can Be Certain There's No Such Place As Hell", but allow me to share one of the many points I make in it.

 

You see, if believers were actually convinced there were a Hell, then they would no longer go to work to make money, donate part of that money to the church and the rest to the never ending materialistic rush to fill the void in their lives with things. They wouldn't care about what the Right Wing told them to do and whom to vote for. They, indeed, would be spending every waking moment tackling people and pleading with them to get saved, but then, how would the real interests of the church and their filthy rich allies be served?

 

Yes, there are a small handful who try to win souls all the time, but most seem to know, that on some level, there's something very, very wrong with the idea that God intends to torture billions of people for an eternity, and yet, because they've had the fear that this MIGHT BE true, they merely take out just enough religion for "fire insurance," and do only the bare minimum required.

 

But the real questions are ignored! For example, what good does getting people converted on the basis of such a threat accomplish? Heaven would be filled with people who were only converted under duress, people who believed just to prevent the torture. God would STILL not know who really loved him just for who he is.

 

Sorry, but Hell makes absolutely no sense.

Sep 25, 2009 4:54 PM Guest highlandbadger  says in response to krhard49:

Granted, the truck analogy is not a perfect illustration of the point the gentleman was trying to make. Thankfully, however, our faith does not rest in analogies about trucks, highways, and people shouting. Our faith rests in Jesus Christ.

Sep 29, 2009 6:52 PM Guest Tim G  says in response to Rick L.:

Rick, I applaud your attempt at a logical rebuttal to this interesting use of an respectable Athiest's comments to bolster the oft misunderstood motivation for 'proselytizing'.    And your conclusion of 'God would STILL not know who really loved him just for who he is' has the potential to be a powerful theological argument (ironicly.)   As a student of epistemology, I can't help but point out that your assumptions about human nature and free-will are at such odds from a coherent representation of Judeo-Christian Tradition that any student of basic logic would be forced to conclude that you have aptly shown the absurdity of your own straw man to ilucidate your point.

    In order to elevate your game to the next level, I would recommend a few basic primers on the philosophical side of Christian tradition made rather accessable to the 'average-joe' types (such as myself) through the writings of C.S. Lewis, (an atheist himself most of his life.)  "The Great Divorce" and "Mere Christianity" are a great start.  [Maybe even try out Francis Schaeffer's works

    I rather admire your enthusiasm for digging up the truth about things, even when based on interesting faith-based presuppositions of matter/energy/chance being self-sufficient causations for your own existance.  The result of which could lead one to conclude that you might be a far more religious person then myself.  It never ceases to amaze me.

Sep 29, 2009 8:01 PM Guest kennyc99  says:

I'm going to trust in this book rather than any books written by one man full of logic and opinions:

The Bible was written:

  • over a 1500 year span (from 1400 B.C to A.D. 100)
  • over 40 generations
  • over 40 authors from many walks of life (i.e. - kings, peasants, philosophers, fishermen, poets, statesmen, scholars)
  • in different places (i.e. - wilderness, dungeon, palaces)
  • at different times (i.e. - war, peace)
  • in different moods (i.e. - heights of joy, depths of despair)
  • on three continents (Asia, Africa, and Europe)
  • in three languages (Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek)

 

Note to mention, it's the best-selling, best-seller and the most freely given away book in history.

According to statistics from Wycliffe International, the Society of   Gideons, and the International Bible Society, the number of new Bibles   that are sold, given away, or otherwise distributed in the United States is about 168,000 per day.

 

Sorry, their is a hell and there is a satan. God said their is and He doesn't lie. He can't because He IS Truth!

 

 

Sep 30, 2009 6:42 AM Guest zbadcat  says in response to Rick L.:

This was a great story about Penn, and I really enjoyed the truck analogy. It gives believers insight and encouragement to share the Gospel with non believers. As a believer, I know that it is not up to me to save people, that is God's job. However I need to allow God to use me according to His will. I still have free will and if I don't follow what God is asking then there are blessings I am missing out on. I don't win souls, no human does. That's all God. As for Hell, it certainly does exist, however exactly what it is unknown. One aspect that is perfectly clear to a believer is that it is a place away from God. I certainly can't think of a worse place to be.

What is great about the above story is that this man listened to what God was calling him to do and not only was he blessed, but Penn was too. It seems that Penn may have seen a glimpse of Jesus in this man, and love is what it is all about.

Sep 30, 2009 3:25 PM Guest Denise K  says in response to Rick L.:
Rick L:  You make a good point (about if Christians believe 100% there is a Hell than they would be spending every waking moment trying to plead with people to get saved)...but it's not that simple.  Having lived 33 years of my life as a non believer I can tell you that I thought Christians "were crazy" because they would warn me that I was going to hell if I didn't become a Christian.  I totally tuned them out...I mean who wants to be told doom/gloom/bad news?
Oct 14, 2009 11:45 AM Guest Howard A  says in response to krhard49:

Proselyizing is a christian invention. As was mentioned above, no one can convert anyone else. The sole command is to 'warn others'; but all the warning will accomplish nothing if those being warned ignore or dis-believe. When Christ sent out the seventy, he told them to stop whereever, preach the gospel, and if it was received, stay as long as was necessary. If not, move on, shaking the dust off their feet. The final decision is at everyone's door. God has set before us, "blessings and life, or curses and death".

Yes we should warn. But too many 'christians' don't believe the gospel; they have their own version of  'who God is', and 'what being righteous' is, and most of that is contrary to what the Bible says. Those that do know and believe, can't cause those that don't, to believe. Belief come from within. Religion really has become an organization of 'murderers', by changing the "Words of Life" into poison, making the Gospel of none effect.

I have seen too many who thought they believed the Truth, give it up when it didn't fit their belly, or their ego, or their pocketbook, adamantly fighting against an indisputible Scriptural truth, walking away from living righteously, uprightly.

You get what you desire. that's why the end to both paths are called "rewards".

Oct 16, 2009 6:45 AM Guest Mandy  says in response to Rick L.:

Wow!  We Christians have really done a lousy job of being a light to a dark world.  Hell is a dark place and we will not be able to be a light there.  God is not there.  He is Light.  He is also living water and in hell there is a thirst that cannot be quenched.  He is not there.

 

This morning my last aunt went to be with Jesus in heaven.  That too, is a real place.  It is not just a myth.  This precious woman lived a life that demonstrated the love of Christ everywhere she went.  I am sorry you did not meet her.  Should you change your mind about who Jesus is and accept Him, her name is Marjorie, she'll give you a hug and say welcome.

 

I am amazed at the number of atheists who are blogging on a Christian web site.  What does that mean?

Jun 25, 2010 7:00 AM Guest Lowell  says:
God wants to have a personal relationship with us through his Son, Jesus Christ and if we repent (turn from our sins) and put our faith in Jesus as the only means of salvation, we will be granted eternal life. But if we reject God's forgiveness, we will spend an eternity in Hell. The Bible says that Hell is a place of eternal torment. The Bible describes Hell as a lake of fire (Rev 19:20, 20:10,14-15, 21:8, Luke 16:24), a place of torment (Luke 16:23,28),  "where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched." (Mark 9:48), and thirst is never satisfied (Luke 16:24). It also says there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Luke 13:28, Matthew 8:12,13:42, 13:50, 22:13, 24:51, 25:30). During His earthly ministry, Jesus spoke more about Hell than anything else. We can trust what the Bible says about Hell because Jesus validated the scriptures. And we can trust Jesus because He proved that He is who He said He was: the Messiah, the Christ, the Son of God and Savior to the world by God resurrecting Him from the dead 3 days later just as Jesus had prophesied. As a former agnostic, I highly recommend reading these books that examine the overwhelming evidence for Christ, the Resurrection, and the Bible: More Than A Carpenter - Josh McDowell, The [New] Evidence That Demands A Verdict - Josh McDowell, and The Case For Christ (also available as DVD) - Lee Strobel .

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